Crate Rant!

I realize I have a strong opinion on this subject. Please know, I'm a really nice person. I try not to be judgmental and though this may come across as a bit obnoxious - I really don't have anything against people who use crates. They're one of the nicer pieces of dog training equipment. I understand that and usually, I pick my battles with a bit more discretion. I'm sure most of the people who will read this are loving, knowledgeable dog owners and this certainly does not apply to anyone who has carefully considered the consequences of their actions. This is more or less, addressing inexperienced trainers, giving bad advice to new pet owners, who are inclined to take things a bit more literal then they ought to. I've been seeing a lot of neglected dogs lately, who ended up that way as a result of their well meaning owners - just trying to train their dogs. It's sad in my opinion and so:


This is the 3rd day of NO crate time whatsoever, for 14 week old Sophie. Crates can very quickly become a crutch. It's easier to put your puppy out of sight and mind, then it is to deal with puppy behavior. Over using a crate not only robs your puppy of quality learning experiences, it can impede muscle and joint development and contribute to neurotic, self-harming behaviours, like lick granuloumas, compulsive digging (ripping nails off), spinning..etc..

As someone with a strong background in training dogs the WRONG way, the crate regime has been pretty heavily conditioned in me and so, one of the last "tools", that has stuck around since I've crossed over. I'm proud to say,I've broken free. NO MORE UNNECESSARY CRATE TIME.

Now I don't think crates are inherently evil, aversive tools. I do think there's a time and a place for crates. It's not that you use them,it's how you use them and why you're using them. I think a crate is a very appropriate tool for keeping young, or "unhouseworthy" dogs safe, when you're out of the house. I believe it's helpful in house training. But if your puppy has NO manners (because it's always in a crate), isn't housetrained AT ALL, unless it's immediately released outdoors (after being crated for hours) and is either too fat or too thin (because it has no opportunity to develop muscle tone, what with being locked in the crate all the time, and such) AND YOU HAVE BEEN CRATING IT FOR HOURS each day since you got it 4 months ago. Perhaps, maybe...just maybe, you're doing something wrong.

If you're using a crate correctly and properly caring for your little one, your puppy should be spending LESS and LESS time in the crate everyday - not more.

I speak from experience here; it's not nice for anyone involved if your dog "has" to be on lockdown in a little box most of the day, because the trainer involved is too incompetent to work through basic husbandry issues.

We need to start a campaign, bring awareness to what's happening out there. How many dogs will endure sensory deprivation, atrophy of muscle tissue and weak, soft pads this year as a result of over-crating? How many dogs will suffer at the hands of another ignorant, unskilled trainer? Or a pet owner, who's taking advice from such a person?


Obviously this post is directed to people who are using crates excessively, or are housing their animals in veri kennels. NOT everyone who uses crates is the boogeyman! I use crates! My friends use crates!

I just got all worked up today. Sorry for the rant.

Owning two dogs that both have some degree of dog aggression, crates ARE an every day tool in my home. I would never leave my abpt uncrated, for her safety as well as the safety of my other dog.

Not only are crates in place, but also doors, when I am not there to supervise them. It's not about lockdown, it's about not coming home to injured or dead dogs.

I think I get what you're trying to say in your rant, but you're also targeting a large group of people who do use crates as an every day essential in keeping their dogs safe. It doesn't even have anything to do with training or behavior. It's about management and safety.

^Agreed. Mine are crated for their own, and each other's safety. And so I don't kill them when I come home to the mess they've made.

Yup, I love my crates. I mean, as long as she gets out of her crate for 15-20 minutes every day, Siri is fine. I don't see what the big deal is.

Or to keep your dog from knocking up your bitch who happens to be his half-sister.


I don't know that it's anybody else's call what is "necessary" or "unnecessary" crate time.
And it's definitely talking about a Crate Boogie Man to claim it makes dogs fat or thin and they don't have muscle tone and they have soft paw pads and they'll start spinning and digging obsessively and have no manners and not be potty trained and "endure sensory deprivation" and... yeah.

I don't have siblings, but I do have two intact dogs. Crates and ex pens are awesome tools in terms of responsible ownership, particularly in the cases of dog aggression and multiple intact animals.

My post was written relative to puppy raising.
I'm well aware of how important it is to safely contain a dog with behavior issues or concerns, and I would never in a million years advocate that any person keep multiple dogs together, unsupervised. Or leaving a dog with an animal of another species. They ARE animals, after all.
What I take exception to, is when people take perfectly fine puppies and lock them up in a crate for 10+ hours a day in the name of "preventative" training.
Yes, people have jobs and not everyone can use the services of a pet sitter or doggy daycare. For such a person, crating may be one of the safest options available to them and the puppy. But when that person gets home, lets the puppy out for an hour, then shoves it back in the box for 3 more, then lets it out for 30 minutes, goes back in for 2 hours, then let out to pee before bed, "sleeps" in crate for 8 hours, is let out for 1 hour in the morning, then shoved back in until the owner returns on lunch break - now that to me is a pretty awful situation for a little puppy. How can such a puppy develop properly, mentally and physically?


NO puppy should have to be raised inside a crate. I believe the crate is being misrepresented as an important part of puppy rearing, when in reality, it's ONLY a tool and like any other tool, it's only as effective as the person using it. What if we could teach people how to house train their puppies without a crate? And at the same time, teach them how to help their puppy get use to separation and how to appropriately entertain themselves, in a safe puppy-proofed room, or x-penned area?

Really, what is it about plastic crates that dog owners can't seem to find an alternative to? You don't really believe that bit of plastic will actually CONTAIN a dog who doesn't want to be in it, right? So what's the point of them? We condition our dogs to spend so much time in these things, couldn't we as easily spend that time conditioning them to stay in a safe room, or lay on a mat?

Just to clarify, in no way shape or form would I ever champion an ideal over the safety of an animal. My post was written in respect to dogs who have no preexisting behavior concerns, specifically, young puppies who have not yet established a healthy daily routine - and seldom get to, seeing as they live most of their hours in a crate.

I keep my animals in separate rooms. I also use crates and X pens. It all depends on the circumstance. I believe it's very wise to have as many tools available to you at possible.

Unfortunately, I see it a lot. Luckily, not usually all in the same dog. But yes, that too has happened.

Lol. :rofl1:

I really don't want to come off as unfair.
I KNOW I'm probably preaching to the choir here and that most of you are using crates (imo) appropriately.

Someone mentioned that it isn't really anyones place to decided what is necessary and necessary. YES that is true. But everyone has perspective and to me, that is very valuable, regardless of who or where it is coming from. Always, we can find some insight.

I use crates every day. I will probably always use crates as long as I have dogs - and I will certainly always keep them on hand. It's not that you use them, it's how and why. If you have a REASON (and it isn't just that you could careless about even a small degree of training) to use a crate, then honestly, that is probably good enough for me. It is the people who are only using a crate because someone told them it would make raising a puppy easier and are using it as a crutch, only to blame the dog when it inevitably has issues, THAT is what this post is about. Mindless dependence on a tool at the expense of a young, blameless dog.

LOL you are totally cute.


I have a single question for you, Opal.
Are you a vet?

Live through a great dane puppy that eats mattresses, boxsprings, couches, windowsills, carpet, closet doors, shower curtains, and drywall when you're not there to supervise and then tell me about blameless dogs and using crates as a crutch. :rofl1:

(none of those things were done in span greater than four hours, btw.)

I will always use crates for puppies. ALWAYS. I'm not looking for anyone's permission or acceptance. My main concern will always be the well being and safety of my dogs, not how someone else feels about my methods of containment.

I was mistaken earlier when I said I thought I got what your rant was about. I'll admit it now, I'm totally baffled...

Do you really see a lot of people who overuse their crates? I mean, like general pet owners? Because usually I hear this:

"He ate a sock while I was in the shower."

"He bit the repair man!"

"He pees on stuff when I leave him to run to the store."

"He chewed up the floorboards and ate 3 pencils!

And then I say, "Is he crate or kennel trained?"

And they say, "Yes, he even sleeps in there sometimes just because he wants to! He likes his crate."

Cue me with, "So why don't you kennel him when you aren't home or can't watch him or a stranger has to come in? Give him a frozen Kong so he's not bored."

And they're all, "I CAN DO THAT?"

"Sure, why not? You're not leaving him for 10 hours at a time, just a few. He'll be safe and comfortable."

"WOW, WHAT A GREAT IDEA!!!"

I see far more "average pet dogs" with issues caused by lack of prudent kenneling than I do with issues from being crated excessively.

The only thing that blows peoples' minds more than using a crate as management with an adult dog, is when I tell them you can keep on leash on your dog in the house to help supervise/control them. "I can use a leash... in... the house???" Blows their minds. lol.

I've been uncomfortable with how long people keep puppies, especially really young ones, in crates. Like 8 week old puppies being in one for nine hours straight. And that case was not a case of an ignorant dog owner. I just don't think that can be healthy. Like any tool, it can be abused. It can also be incredibly handy and work fine.

I agree. I can't say I've ever personally seen a case of what I would consider over-crating, but I've seen a whole lot of cases where a dog was injured, sickened, or poorly trained due to a lack of appropriate confinement. I'd be hesitant to rant about over-use of crating puppies myself, because I feel they already aren't used enough. Maybe I'd feel differently if I saw a dog actually crated 22 hours a day.

My dogs are also competition dogs; it is required that they be able to go into their crates in any environment and settle immediately. No, neither dog is crated at home at this point (although Gusto was for quite a while if we weren't supervising him), but both still spend time in crates throughout the week, in the car, in classes, at practice.

Ditto to what Emily said. Drives me crazy because I'm thinking "And... I'm going to see this dog in the next year or two for foreign body surgery".

I don't know, maybe I'm the kind of person you're talking about. Kili is crated for about 10 hours during the day while I'm at work. I come home at lunch and let the dogs out to pee, train, and run for anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 hours (depends on when I have to be back at the clinic). And she's also crated overnight from about 10 PM until 6 AM. I would love for her to not have to be in a crate anymore. She's 15 months old. I thought the crate would be phasing out at 12 months but she is not trustworthy. Not even close.

She gets as much exercise as I can give her, and training to tire out her brain, but with the dark days now that's harder to do. If I can hike her off leash WITH A FRIEND for 2 hours, she'll sack out for the rest of the day. Not practical on a daily basis. Jogging her 2-3 miles barely makes a dent. And if she's not completely sacked out she's poking around. We have toys, we have mind bending treat toys, puzzle toys, raw hides. We have training (well, as much as we can do in our little house). We go to a horse arena several times a week to train too.

I get what you're saying, but I would consider myself above average when it comes to exercise and mental stimulation of my dogs and I still absolutely have to crate Kili when I'm out for everyone's safety. (Also, pretty sure if I left her loose she would drive Summit nuts, and I wouldn't blame him for putting a few tooth marks in her... except that I'll have to deal with it!) So if I'm needing to crate her with that much activity.... I get it if you mean "why did you get a dog if you didn't want to spend time with it and train it", but some of us do and still need to use a crate all the time.

Now Summit is an angel.

I'm definitely with Emily on this one.

I thought 10 minutes was acceptable. Dang, don't know where I'm going yo find the extra 5. Lol


Crates are a wonderful tool and like any tool can be misused.

My puppy spends anywhere between 3-9 hours in a crate per day. He sleeps in it as well. We are transitioning to an x pen for night time.

Crates aren't the problem, uneducated owners are.

Mia is nearing 5 and still chews while I'm gone from the house.

I don't use crates but she sure is kept in an x-pen while I'm at work.

wait what? your dog spends 23 hours and 40 minutes a day in the crate and is only outside it for 20 minutes?