Stalking us and Biting!! OH NO!! (Very long & detailed thread)

Hello Everyone,
First I just wanted to say that all the help I received yesterday on the crate training really worked.. Thank you so much! :hail:

Now a new developing problem started yesterday afternoon..

Bella is a definite mix breed.. She’s 8 weeks old.. I just adopted her on Saturday.. She has been on meds for an upper resp. infection since 12/5..

Yesterday my brother and mothers boyfriend called me and said Bella was going crazy all day biting them extremely hard.. I told them she is teething and that when she bites they should either clap their hands loud or make a sudden loud noise to get her attention. Then to look at her and say with a authoritive voice "NO" and then to put her chewy (which she loves) in her mouth to divert her..

Well they were telling me that they did and she would not stop.. Then she started staring at them laying low on the ground and then would pounce on them and bite very hard. Which I now call it her stalk.. So I told them again and they said that it still didn’t work. So I told them to just walk away from her, which then they said they did but she is pulling at their legs and biting her. (Kind of like a Lion when the catch their pray)
So I told them to put her in her crate with no toys to settle her down but I don’t want to now break the “The crate is a happy place”..

When I got home, I sat next to her and she was very calm, laid down next to me and fell asleep.. Her dinner time is 6:30pm so I made her dinner and she was starving.. So I figured she was hungry and that’s why she was biting them.. Well after she ate she when potty and then settled down for about 1/2 hour.. She woke up and started biting me now!! She’s biting hard that her little teeth are cutting skin, then she did the dreaded.. She stalked me.. The more you make the clapping noise or a loud noise it works the first time and then she just ignores it anytime you do it again.. But the stalking I have to say (which I am not afraid of any type of dogs) scared me.. She stares at you, lays low to the ground and plunges for you.. Gets a hold of you and doesn’t let go, shaking her head back and forth.. Sometimes it works when you put her chewy in her mouth and sometimes she is very persistent in trying to bit you.. So I even had to do the crate “Time out” thing.. But once you take her out if shes not biting me or anyone else.. Shes pulling viciously at the couch or rug on the floor.. To the point where If you physically pick her up and take her away from the object she is biting she makes this “cub” noise and goes for us! YICKS!!!

Now I have had 5 Doberman Pinschers, 2 Rotties and a select few other animals that could have lead to be dangerous but never have a felt scared.. She’s worrying me AND shes only about 3 pounds..

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank again so much!
Dawn
P.s The only reason why Im posting this is because I have read the other threads about biting and none speak of the "Stalking" problem Im having with her.. Sorry

When she is laying low and then pouncing is her tail wagging? To me it sounds like she is just rambunctious and wants to play really bad. Ours did that as well and always tried to grab onto our pant legs and shake... To me this just sounds like typical puppy behavior... I'm sure there are many others on here who can give you great advice on how to handle this. I know what we did but I think you should here from a expert or trainer on here.

Hi Yorkie Lover,

As far as I can tell, no she is not wagging her tail.. She lays down really low, has this serious stare on her face and then pounces.. The biting is killing me tho because she growls and thrashes her head back and forth.. We have tried to make a “yelp” noise and we have tried saying “no” loudly but everything is making her madder.

I definitely know this is puppy behavior but when you tell her "NO" or if you put her favorite chewy toy in front of her to divert her.. She gets even madder and bites and goes crazy.. I don’t want to use her crate as a "TIME OUT" because we are also addressing the problem of her hating the crate and in one day with the help of Doberluv, Bella is no longer screaming bloody murder in the cage..

She's only 8 weeks. She's just a feisty, wild woman. At her age it's just play, albeit wild play. She's just "practicing" for the stalk, hunt and pounce. LOL. Some pups are just more "into" it than others. She is not mad or vicious. She's a tiny infant pup. This is truely instinct which is in the form of play at this point in her life.

When you speak to her, "no!" or clap your hands, some dogs think you're joining in with the fun. You're giving attention. If you walk away and she follows you, biting, continue to ignore her and I mean ignore in the purest sense. (if you can withstand a few nips for a minute) If she stops for a couple of seconds drop a tiny treat and/or tell her "goooooood girl." If she doesn't stop for even two seconds, put her gently (not angrily or punishingly) in her crate with toys that she can chew on instead of you.

I know a lot of people see this as punishment associated with the crate. But again, I stress that you go about it in a matter of fact way, not angrily. It's a gentle, calm..."time for bed" sort of demenor. I have done this when I needed a break and my dog never seemed to be taking it as though he were being punished. It was just the way it was and he always liked his crate and would use it voluntarily. If you're worried about this, you can go into the bathroom and close the door behind you. Only stay in there for 30 seconds or a minute though. I wouldn't trust taking my eyes off the pup for any length of time. In other words, what I'm getting at is that social isolation is a workable way for showing the pup what works to get your attention and what doesn't. When you look at her, speak to her, scold her, clap your hands, yelp, make noises......all of it IS attention. You are reacting to her actions. You don't want to do any of that. You want her to learn become the one who reacts to your actions. Leaders act, followers react.

She should always have a chew toy in her crate so she has something nice to associate it with. Don't deprive her of teething toys at her age whether she's in her crate or not. Those give her an outlet and her little gums need something to chew. By giving her those, that will help her to finally stop chewing on you. But, by giving her a "time out," this shows her that your attention, your interaction and playtime with you will disappear when she bites. However, she won't make that connection for a while. She needs many repititions to make the connection. She needs to have playtime end when she bites and she needs to have attention, praise (low key) and even a treat when she can interact with you without biting. It has to be absolutely consistant and your timing right on.....the second she stops biting, she needs to be reinforced...not after, right at the same time.... and everyone has to do the same. Replace your hands and ankles with a chew toy. Maybe one with a little peanut butter smeared in it, a Kong. Show her what she can chew on instead. Good things happen when she chews on toys. You praise her, interact with her, she gets a treat. It has to be a toy she likes. It might even taste good. Nothing happens when she bites you. No more fun, no treats, no social interaction with you, no reaction at all. She'll find that it's a real drag to keep on biting people and she'll begin to choose the alternative chew toys. It will not happen right away because she's a pup. Maturity plays a role too.

Make sure she gets plenty of exercise and romping outside....several times a day. Teach her some obedience skills....just a few to begin with; sit, down, come so her mind gets stimulated and exercised. Physical and menal exercise is vital for helping with behavior in general. Don't exercise her to excess, whereby her little bones and joints are over taxed, but enough that she gets tired out a little. This will also help her settle down a bit.

She'll get over it, but again...she's a puppy, a baby and puppies do this to one degree or another. It takes growing up and diligent handling, exercise, re-directing her behavior and all that to assist in this.

One other thing that might help...they sell teething puppy toys. I never got one, but I've heard of them....you freeze them and they are comforting to the gums. I use to take a rag and soak it in strong tea and then twist it up, tie a knot in it and freeze it. That should be soothing to the gums. However.....if you do that you have to supervise because after a bit, they start pulling out threads or they can bite off a piece of fabric. If it gets to almost that point, it's time to take it away and trade for a tasty treat or chew toy. Swallowing threads or pieces of fabric can be dangerous to the intestines. But for about 10 minutes or so, it can sooth the gums. Ice cubes are also fun to play with on a vinyl floor for some dogs. They can chase them around, they're cold and feel good on the gums. You can even make yogart ice cubes or chicken broth ice cubes.....messier, but also fun for dogs.

This too shall pass. LOL.

This is excellent advice and pretty much what we followed. If the biting started on the pant leg, we would gently remove her and leave the room, if she continued we went into our bathroom for a short bit and then back out.. She did figure it out. But I'll tell you what, those tiny sharp teeth do hurt especially on your feet. I used to laugh when my husband would try to walk across the room and she would pounce and grab either his sock/toe or his pant leg/ankle. I know I shouldn't of laughed but it was him getting those razor sharp teeth... lol Needless to say, if you follow the advice you've been given, the chances of those little needle teeth on your skin should go way down.

Yes as always Doberluv is an excellent advice giver and I will try this method as soon as I get home..

Thank you again everyone for your advice!!

Shevelle, I'm sorry but I was laughing reading your thread,,I APOLOGIZE! I was just picturing this little "squirt" stalking, pouncing and putting the fear of god in ya all LOL..

Aussies can be "grippers",,,they definately have their QUIRKS! they can be big mouths, grabbers, stalkers especially when they are vying for your attention or frustrated or bored..

Definately have something GOOD to for her to gnaw on and try to redirect those jaws to good things to chew vs humans..*vbg*.

Do you have other dogs? I'm thinking getting her with an older maybe female, who will not only give her some exercise, BUT correct her without "hurting" her..teach her some doggie manners!

SInce you got her from a shelter do you know how long she interacted with her own littermates or other puppies??

In the end, she does sound like an 8 week old vampire,,*vbg*..I personally don't use the word "no" much, as it tends to get "nagging" and they end up tuning you out anyhow!!! Plus at 8 weeks she has the attention span of a gnat at this point..

Get her some good rope / tug toys,,my aussies LOVE to tug,,and it saves the skin..The stalking,,well sounds like maybe you have a good herder on your hands,,so maybe some sheep in her future???

Good luck!
Diane

Ahh, brings back nighmares......er....I mean memories for me.
Isn't Bella part Austrailian Shepherd?
From everything you have described this behavior is part infant 8-week old puppy and part herding technique, albeit not honed at this point.

I have 2 Collies....herding breeds. Bailey is 20 months old, very sweet boy..........Now....... But when he was just a baby with those razor sharp teeth were the bane of my exisitence! I called him a "terrorist". The backs of both of my legs were black and blue and scratched and nipped till it looked like I had been in a car wreck. I didn't think such a tiny puppy could do that! He has a very high herding instinct. I tried everything at the time including smearing bitter apple on myself.......didn't help. I couldn't walk in the yard without becoming the object of his brutal desire!!!! And it would get worse if I shouted "no" or responded in any vocal way because as Dobeluv said it was attention.

At times I couldn't walk across the kitchen floor without him making a circle around me and going for my feet and/or legs. I was certain he was to become a bully! I was exhasperated to say the least. He wasnt' like this all of the time but when he was it was a nightmare and he was exhibiting Alpha tendencies. Until I began ending playtime when he began to act this way. When out in the yard I ended the play and went into the house or garage leaving him with a bewildered look on his face in the fenced backyard. I ignored him, wouldn't even look at him. And I made sure he knew that his toys were MINE. I gave him what Iwanted him to play with and switched them out as I wanted. The minute teeth touched skin the play ended. Sometimes giving him something to chew on worked IF his gums were bothering him, if they weren't he could have cared less about the chew toy.
Ignoring him EVERY time was what worked.

In the end not all that much later he dropped the idea of beating up my legs and feet and everyone else's too. :hail: His personality now is NOTHING like it was when he was a wee wee pup and he has the softest mouth that I have ever seen and a very gentle, loving, sweet boy. There were times way back when, when I thought he hated us. :lol-sign: But that wasn't true, he just needed to be given guidance and taught manners as he was just a baby with a strong will. I wouldn't trade him for the world. Just be patient and consistent and have a stronger will than your puppy and it will pass.
When I now tell people about what he did as a baby they can hardly believe it.

Love that Collie,

Love that story. LOL.

Oh wait till you read this!!

Oh now this has got to be the funniest thing..
Bella went for her first Vet visit last night!! WOOHOO!!! She was so cute.. I have been with my Vet for almost 30 years.. I trust him completely..
He gave Bella the old 1 – 2 over look and she is in PERFECT health.
Then I handed him the papers that the Animal League filled out with all her information like what breed she is, shots that have been given to her, illnesses she was coming home with ETC..

Well he looks at me and laughs loudly and says “They really saw you coming didn’t they” And I laughed and asked why.. “DOC” (as we call him) said she was NOT an Australian Shepard.. But in fact she is a German Shepard/ Rotti mix.. Well at that point I was amazed!! Im not afraid of dogs but that’s a totally different thing then I thought she was and could explain a lot that is going on in her little head..

Also, “Doc” told me she was only like 6 weeks old and she was spayed way to early in life.. He looked over her stitches and to see if everything is ok and said the operation looks to be almost 1 ½ weeks old.. So that would mean she was operated on about 4 ½ to 5 weeks of age.. I was terrified!!

I love her so much but that’s so scary on how places are lying!!

Well I thought you would be interested in the GOOD NEWS.. Although I think my mom is still passed out on the floor from the news.. LOL!!!

Thanks for all your help with her and Im sure I’ll be asking some soon..

Oh wait till you read this!!

Oh now this has got to be the funniest thing..
Bella went for her first Vet visit last night!! WOOHOO!!! She was so cute.. I have been with my Vet for almost 30 years.. I trust him completely..
He gave Bella the old 1 – 2 over look and she is in PERFECT health.
Then I handed him the papers that the Animal League filled out with all her information like what breed she is, shots that have been given to her, illnesses she was coming home with ETC..

Well he looks at me and laughs loudly and says “They really saw you coming didn’t they” And I laughed and asked why.. “DOC” (as we call him) said she was NOT an Australian Shepard.. But in fact she is a German Shepard/ Rotti mix.. Well at that point I was amazed!! Im not afraid of dogs but that’s a totally different thing then I thought she was and could explain a lot that is going on in her little head..

Also, “Doc” told me she was only like 6 weeks old and she was spayed way to early in life.. He looked over her stitches and to see if everything is ok and said the operation looks to be almost 1 ½ weeks old.. So that would mean she was operated on about 4 ½ to 5 weeks of age.. I was terrified!!

I love her so much but that’s so scary on how places are lying!!

Well I thought you would be interested in the GOOD NEWS.. Although I think my mom is still passed out on the floor from the news.. LOL!!!

Thanks for all your help with her and Im sure I’ll be asking some soon..

Wow, that's a big difference. If I was expecting an Aussy mix and ended up with a shepherd mix, I'd be really mad.

Anyway, my little Maligattor (Beligan Malinois) still loves to play with her jaws ready to grab whatever is near. Somehow along the way, I taught her that biting me is bad, so when ever those teeth get near my skin, she suddenly turns to licking mode. I can't tell you how she finally got the point, but for the first month I had her I always had little wounds on my right hand and wrist from her. I'm pretty sure there were a lot of stern "NOs" given.

But be patient, it will pass. She's so young, it's definitely play biting.

Even now that my puppy is a year old, I still have to supervise play time with the older dog. If I hear any yelping, then play time is over!

Adding: For the longest time, she was a feisty little puppy who did a lot of "talking back" at me. I finally got my respect from her and she's is the sweetest thing.

Oh, no I wasnt looking for a Aussie Shepard.. I went to the animal league to look for a puppy.. I had a 19 year old Mini Pin that I had to put down due to health reasons because of age.. I just strolled into the shelter last weekend and feel in love with Bella. But they Shelter told me she was a Aussie Shepard.. Which I've seen some pictures and she "kind of" looked like one..

But I took her to my the Vet yesterday and to my surprise my Vet congratulated me on picking out an adoreable Shepard/Rotti mix.. Either way I love her!! 60 LBs or 100 LBs she my spoiled girlie!! hehehe!!

The biting thing is getting bad but there are to many people involved in her puppy stages and I need to educate them so she has a great life with all of us...

Thank you the reply!!

Do they know her parents? How do they know for sure she's a Rottie/Shepherd mix?

Sounds to me like she's trying out her herding instinct on you my Border Collie used to do this when we'd play. It LOOKS menacing because when dogs do the eye-stalk, they keep their tail down low and appear very serious. She's just a baby, I don't think she's being aggressive towards you. Doberluv gave you some great advice.

Hi RD,
Yes she gave EXCELLENT advice.. I have also used her advice for the crate training and its working wonderfully!!

No I dont think shes being aggressive towards myself or anyone else either.. Its just that if you push her away from you she pounces back, if you tell her "NO" she pounces harder and if your walking she goes after your pant leg and gets her baby teeth stuck in your pant leg and I dont want to hurt her tiny llittle mouth..

Lets also say for the record.. Im an OVER PROTECTIVE Mommy.. Hehehe!!

LOL, Shevelle, you did get a surprise didn't you!
But, being part German Shepherd she's still part herding breed.
Yeah, I would have everyone involved in her training to do the same thing, whatever approach you decide. Glad she is in great health too.

Doberluv... All I can say is since I got Chloe (5 1/2 months old now), every night when I go to bed, I say my prayers and thank God that Chloe is not like Bailey WAS re the attraction to HUMAN legs and feet and hands. :lol-sign: They herd each other and all the dogs at doggie daycare.... heeheehee

ahhh,,well did I mention I live with GSd's as well??? and yep, herding VAMPIRES when they are puppies LOL

She DOES have more of a rottie/gsd marking to her in your avatar. Altho she could "pass" at this point for an aussie mix as well..

Either way, you still have your herding dawg, (rotties herd to! tho they are in the working group!),,but now instead of a med sized dog, you may be getting a little bit larger one *vbg*
diane

Yeah....I didn't have much of that either. It must be super annoying. I bet you're glad it skipped Chloe. LOL.

Heh, heh, heh....I hear ya about those herding breeds. LOL. I've had two GSDs, and they weren't too extreme that way, ironically. But my Doberman is like that. He's really into it. If he's playing with another dog who has a ball, he couldn't care less about the ball, but he's standing behind the other dog with the ball and bouncing from left to right, pouncing low, going in for a "bite" and back out again fast. That darting back and forth... looks like a cutting horse watching a cow. He can hardly wait for someone to throw the ball for the other dog so he can chase and herd. So we have one dog all excited and obsessed about chasing the ball and another dog all obsessed and excited to chase the dog with the ball. LOL. He frustrates the other dog because he prevents him or her, (depending who he's playing with) from moving. And he's not even a herding dog, persay (but of course, he is) although, he has some shepherd in his heritage or make-up along with Rottweiler and along with a whole bunch of other breeds) Actually, I have seen people who use Dobermans as herding dogs. I saw it in one of my dog magazines once.

They are indeed interesting to watch, huh.

Hmmm.....Doberman herding, LOL that's funny. You sure he wasn't raised by a pack of herders? hehehehe....Bailey now likes to chase Chloe when she's chasing the ball. When she gets the ball he's in for the nip at her hind feet. He only chases the ball and when he's done chasing the ball Chloe brings it back with him hot on her heels. I love to watch them when they don't know I am. They have two totally different techniques in herding. Actually Chloe herds like a Border Collie..........crouching and creeping low, the intense stare down, the stalking, and when Bailey sees her she stops cold, he looks away, she takes very quick, small steps until he looks at her again, stare, stare, stare and when she's close enough BAM she's on him! Bailey just GOES full steam ahead, circling with wide circles, then smaller and smaller circles until he has whatever it is into whatever corner of the fence he wants them in. But Bailey is the barker, Chloe isn't and she's much more sneaky. :lol-sign:
I wish I had a flock of sheep for them.

That is cool....that crouch, the sneaking up. It must be a riot to watch. No such finesse with Lyric. He does everything the way Dobermans do....no beating around the bush. It's all out in the open and everything is done with gusto. LOL.

I love watching Border Collies herd sheep....just amazing! (well, any herder)