Occasional pee accidents in the house

My wife and I adopted a 4 year old yellow lab back in July '06. We don't know anything about his background, but we quickly learned that he was apparently house trained.

However, after about 4 accident-free months, he had 2 "pee accidents" within a week. The first time he just walked up to me and pee'd on the floor. The second time he pee'd while he was walking across the dining room.

Today he had his 3rd accident, and again it was a "walk and pee". When my wife took him outside, she said he pee'd for longer than usual, so it's clear that he just really had to go and couldn't hold it. I checked his water bowl, and he hadn't drank any more than usual.

Nothing suggests it's a behavioral problem; generally speaking, he's a very well behaved and happy dog. Also, I think that if it was a medical problem it would be more regular.

The thing that I don't understand is why he didn't go scratch on the door or at least go near the door. I thought this was a behavior that all dogs do without training.

So the question is, how do I train my dog to let me know when he's about to have an accident? My wife suggested that maybe we could condition him to ring a bell at the front door every time we take him out for a pee break, so hopefully he'll do it on his own when he really needs to go.

Perhaps coincidental, all 3 accidents were on a Saturday evening between 4-7PM. He typically gets walked during the week at about 6-6:30PM, so we try to stick to that routine even on the weekend. Ironically, his first walk on the weekend is typically a couple hours later than what it is during the week.

We're not very experienced dog owners, so I'm hoping to get some guidance from the experts.

Thanks,
Adam

I'm assuming that since he is from a shelter, and over a year old, that he is neutered, am I correct? He may be marking his territory for some reason. I would have him vet checked as I had a husky who would do that and it turns out that she had a bladder infection and needed medication. Agian it wasn't all the time she would do this it was only once in awhile.

Teaching your dog to ring a bell is a good idea and I have tried with our dogs but haven't had any success. My dogs just stare at me and stand by the door if they have to go outside. It could also be he is used to going outside at a certain time and is so used to going out at that time he'll just go. How long does he wait to go out during the day? Our lab is almost two and still let out every 1-2 hours but she could hold it longer we just don't make her. Maybe letting him out more frequently would help this.

These are just my suggestions I'm sure someone else may have a better idea.

Well I am probably way off the mark here...but you said that the first time it happened, your dog walked up to you and peed in front of you? Perhaps when he came up to you, that was your cue that he needed to be taken out? Maybe he just doesn't know how to tell you! and if he is walked at a later time than usual he probably was just doing his best to wait till then LOL. I used to think that all dogs scratched at the door to go out. Minnie just comes and sits in front of me and stares at me until I ask her what she wants. Once she has my attention she will trot off to the back door. If I don't respond straight away she paces (as if to say hurry up) and then resumes the staring thing until I take her out. I am just thinking that maybe you have just not gotten used to each others signals yet.

When a dog regresses in behavior like this it usually means he has a urinary tract infection and needs to go to the vet. The fact that it has happened 3 times this week would lead me to belive a vet visit is in order. I've had lots of dogs that have develped bladder/UTI and did the exact same thing

So we finally got the test results back from the vet, and apparently he does not have a urinary tract infection. She said that the uncontrolled urination is likely behavioral, and may also be affected by his slightly high pH level (he's at 7.5, but he should be at 6.5).

pH level aside, if the problem is in fact behavioral, how should I address it? As I said before, each time he's pee'd in the house, it's been when we're moving around the house tidying things up. I think he thinks that we're preparing to go somewhere exciting, and works himself up so much that he loses control of his bladder.

Any particular tactics I should take to address this issue?

Thanks again,
Adam

I was just going to say that it sounds more behavioural to me. Has there been any changes in the house? It may seem minor to you but any change get disturb a senstive dog. Something as silly as moving furniture can upset some dogs! A new house guest ... new pet ... different food. Try and think if there is anything like this going on.

What was the verdict on the neutering? If he's not neutered it could be hormonal. If he smells another dog/pet on you it could be territorial.

I think the best way to address it is to go back and reinforce house breaking. Go out with him when he pees and reward him. Take him out frequently and don't let him out of your sight until you have a handle on it. If you catch him in the act distract him and take him right outside.

Well, we did finally get a table for our dining room, but he spends *very* little time in there (hey, there's no couch in there, so why would he?!). And we did switch him from Beneful to Innova. There's no new house guests, and no new pets. Keep in mind he's a rescue, but we've had him for about 6 months now.


He was neutered before we rescued him. I don't interact with other dogs aside from the ones we see on our walks or at the park, so I doubt that's it.


Good advice. Since he's only done it when he gets excited from us moving around the house, I think we'll have to be more concious of that. Somehow his level of excitement seems to be affecting his ability to control his bladder, so in those cases we'll just have to take him outside before the problem happens.

Oh yeah. It can also be nerves or excitement. I knew a dog that peed every time she saw me even though she was an adult. She was just too happy! lol

One thing that we make a point to do is to not greet him with a ton of excitement after being out of the house for a while. He spends a lot of time at home alone, so we didn't want him to develop separation anxiety because he's so excited for the instant we walk in the door and start wrestling with him.

Anyway, one thing that occurred to me is that the place where he's by FAR the most excited is in the car. He's absolutely obsessed with getting into and riding in the car. It's clearly not because he's excited about where he's going, because when we get there he often takes a few steps and then turns around to go back into the car. Crazy dog just loves a good joy ride! We're working on this ...

The point is, if he truly could not control his bladder when he's excited, I think he'd have pee'd all over my car by now, but he hasn't. Therefore, it does seem that there is a behavioral aspect to this.

In any case, I think we'll just start watching him more carefully when he starts to get excited when we're moving around the house. Thanks again for the advice!

I wouldn't rule out behavioural aspects. There's more than one way to have a behavioural problem. If the vet didn't find anything wrong then it pretty much makes it a behavioural one. Just keep watching him for patterns and go back to basic training.

Argh, he did it again this evening. We didn't catch him in the act this time. My wife came into the living room and said "What is that?!". There were about 2 dozen pee drops on the rug and on the floor nearby, but no pools anywhere.

I don't remember seeing the dog get overly excited this evening. God I wish I knew what was wrong with him. My wife is pulling her hair out. ;/

Why wasn't he supervised? Tie him to your waste if you have to. Or take him to your vet again to see if you can rule out any other problems.

Technically he WAS supervised. I must have been in the room when it happened, but I didn't notice anything unusual. We were both prepared to take him out if he got excited again, but he seemed calm all evening.

And honestly, we just spent $450 at the vet in 2 days, I don't know how much more we can afford.

Well, technically, if he was supervised he wouldn't have been able to pee in the house Like I said before, if you want to fix it you are going to have to go to house training basics, assuming all health problems have been eliminated.

Sometimes, even when supervised, they can sneak it past you. Normally, dogs do things that clue you in a little bit, like circling, sniffing, looking for someplace to go, but some just go. Lyric was like that. He'd be walking across the living room like he was going to go get a toy or come to see me, stop and pee.....just like that, in a heartbeat.....standing just the same shape as he was in, no bending, no nothing. Although the norm is that people see signs, there are exceptions to the rule, just like with everything.

What I suggest is that you take your dog out every 45-60 minutes, even if he is an adult. Keep a log of when he eats, drinks, plays, naps, pees and poos. Do this for 2 weeks solid. Try to discover when he pees/poos in relation to those other activities. Keep his routine as regular as possible. Don't take your eyes off of him while inside and clean up his past messes with Nature's Miracle.

When you first come home or even if you come in where he is, and you've been in another room for a few minutes or longer.....in other words, any kind of "reunion," don't pay any attention to him for a couple of minutes, then keep it very low key.

Are you working on obedience skills every day? He may need to build up some confidence and look to you more as his "provider" of good things. Good things come when he performs for you some little task. You don't have to carry this to the extreme, but have him sit or down before he gets your attention some of the time.....just for a while. You be the one to act, he can be the one to react some of the time.

Don't react when you find a pee spot. If he's in the act, hussle him outside, not angrily. Go with him EVERY SINGLE TIME. When he DOES go outside, give a cue word softly while he's going, "go potty" or whatever. The instant he finishes, make a big fuss (if he likes big fusses, some dogs are sensative and nervous with big fusses. Give him the kind of praise he likes) and stand there and feed him the best little pieces of gourmet cuisine you can think of, steak, chicken, pot roast. (small pieces) EVERY TIME. Feed him for 15 seconds straight. Take him to approximately the same place every time.

You will need to discipline yourself to the hilt, never slacking on those near hourly trips outside. If you stick to a strict routine, where you start to see a pattern when he has to go, you'll be able to eliminate the trips outside which seem to be fruitless. But for a few weeks, every 45 minutes without exception. If he is holding it while in the crate, then night time, of course should be fine or when you're gone. When you come home, take him right outside, immediately, quietly.

I don't know if this is excitement pee or submissive peeing since I can't see the dog. But if he is doing it for the reason of showing you his submission or marking his territory, beefing up the obedience and beefing up the "You act, he reacts" concept should help. Don't go over board with that. I mean, it's just not nice or natural IMO to ignore your friend when he needs something. Just don't cater to his every whim. You said his behavior is good. A dog's behavior can be good and still, he may be teaching you to respond to him more than it should be. I don't quite know your situation. Anyhow, some of those things may build his confidence and focus. Have you used any sterness with him, any harsh punishment of any kind? Just asking. That can sometimes make a dog pee for no apparent reason. Or do you think he was treated like that from his previous owners? It can really confuse a dog. He just doesn't get it yet where to go. Make sure that there is ONLY one possibility, one place where wonderful things happen. Prevent his going inside. He gets reinforced everytime he goes inside....it's easy, convenient, comfortable. You must prevent more accidents. And stick to the routine for a long time. Set him up for success. The more opportunities he has for peeing outside, the more times he'll be reinforced for that. The more reinforcements he gets, the more likely he'll repeat that behavior. Give him a cue word as you open the door...."Wanna go out?" Or whatever you want.

If this doesn't change, I'd get a 2nd opinion from a vet.

Bells on the door were mentioned. It could be that something small in his routine has changed and he needs to go before you're ready to take him on his walk.

Jager was having problems letting me know when he had to go. In my old trailer, i trained him to jump and stratch at the door. He liked it because it was aluminum and made a lot of noise, which got my attention quickly. Here, the door is wooden and i don't actually want him scratching it. Plus, he just wouldn't bother. It doesn't make enough noise to wake me up, or let me hear him over the tv.

So, back to the bells. You want to use sleigh or "jingle" bells. Hold a treat tight in your hand near the bells. Eventually, the dog will try to use his nose or paw to get the treat out of your hand. Ring the bells, give the treat, and then OPEN THE DOOR AND GO OUTSIDE. You can come right back in, the idea is that the dog associates the bells with going out. Repeat this a few (ten) times. Ending the session with going outside and playing in the yard is a great treat for the dog.

Next session, hold the treat near the bells, and only give the treat when the nose or paw goes near them. Ring the bells, give the treat and go outside. Repeat.

Keep working up until you're only rewarding when the dog moves the bells himself, making them ring. Still go outside every time.

Doing this 2 or 3 times a day for 2 minutes at a time, your dog should have it down in less than 2 weeks. Just be sure that whenever he rings them on his own, you immediately take him outside.

Glad to see that you've found a method that actually works. We'll give it a shot. I'll post back in a couple weeks to let you know how it went.

P.S. My lab is especially stubborn, so it may take 2x longer for him than a "normal" dog.