Would your dog defend you?

[planet molosser]

What z matter I agree with you partly. And looks like we had a bit of confusion on civil

The dog I mentioned was NEVER taken off the property and was a import dog.
It was NOT my dog or my line or my breeding.

I really dont think good breeders &owners need to pay the price for shitty ones.

I am a breeder and dogs need to be PROVEN in what they are bred to do period.

We have enough pet dogs out there breeds bred to be that just pets.
Specialists like CAS , Fila et are needed if bred correctly.

I edited the post due to confusion thanks

 

[whatszmatter]

I mentioned nothing about breeding down dogs, i'm against that in everyway. Maybe you were confused by some of my wording. I"m not going to try and write too much, people get confused when the even see the training, let alone try and type it out on a message board. You can test the dogs and work them, without civil training. maybe civil training means something different to you than me

 

[RD]

What does civil work mean to you, Whatz? I'm not familiar with the term at all.

 

[oriondw]

Honestly, I NEVER saw CO's and CAO's doing anything other then prison, military, factory duty in cccp, but thats just me.

Right now they are using them for regular police patrols in Russia and Ukraine which is kind of strange and there are better suited breeds for such task.

 

[planet molosser]

I agree many define these PP terms differently.
Since I dont do the SCH routine & the the dog is normally green as in those pics.

ADDED later when he was no longer green . We did more civil but tied him our to a pole

And yes many do LOOK down upon it.

Well I do not do SPORT work.
I dont send my dogs to anyone they must come to me.
My dogs have low to no prey drive thus I dont do any form of chase .

My dogs are brought out by the person trying to attack me.
At the beginning we dont ask for bites until the dog learns to play.

We use it as test vs sport or a working trial.

I have seen Cheryl Carlson do Civil work at at K9 pro sports trial .
SHE had a POLE with a orange spray painted ball at the end
And she got our Sheriff in the chest

So please tell me what you believe civil is would like to learn....

I have a dog going for a SDA trial and another one with a military trainer and each one has a slight difference in what they want or see dogs doing in the US PP world.

 

[whatszmatter]

yeah, your breed is low on the prey scale in terms of drive so "sport" training would be tougher. Their protective instincts are more based in Defense than our GSD's so it does have its differences. This is a huge debate in working GSD circles as well, so my opinion is shared by some and others have a totally different way of looking at it, so take it as you will.

I would call working your dogs in defensive drive "civil" work, but I generally think of it as more training than just having the dog out on the end of lead between you and a man. hidden sleeves, muzzle work to build more frustration and power in the bites when the muzzle comes off, body suits, teaching to protect cars, etc. To me, when training for a "civil" dog you put a little more of an edge on them, that most people don't need. Our club doesn't do civil work with people off the street, only with people that have a demonstrated need and have shown the commitment and responsibility.

All our dogs that are "sport" dogs are tested in defense by us during training. The ones that can handle it and are confident good dogs, get bred, the others are worked in drives that are comfortable to them, the handlers and the dogs have fun, they get titles, but are not bred. By us anyway.

so, I guess to me, civil work can be using defense in the training, but doing "civil" work is more intensive. I can test defense or civil drive with our without a sleeve to make sure its there and stable and workable in a dog, but "civil training" is more intensive and brings out a higher degree of seriousness from a dog. To me it takes a good helper and handler and dog to make civil training beneficial. Lots of time inexperienced helpers will push a dog too far, give it bad experiences and the dog can become dangerous, or the handler doesn't realize the responsibility that comes with civil training and ends up creating dangerous situations.

any of this make sense? I don't always get my point across very well, especially on message boards.

 

[ToscasMom]

Well I don't know if it was just show or what, but I have had two incidents where Tosca got nasty enough to shock me. Most nobably was at a training class, where I entered the training building and forgot about the step down at the entrance. I took a huge flop and although I did not get hurt, it LOOKed like I SHOULD have gotten hurt. There were four people and their dogs already there and they came rushing towards me and Tosca turned really vile and wouldn't let any of them near me. I finally told her to sit and she did and I got up and walked and then she was fine--just like nothing happened. Everybody was kind of shocked, especially since the dogs were all definitely more aggressive than she was in the classes. She acted like she was ready to go toe to toe with all of them. So I don't know how far it would have gone but it sure was a stellar show. The other time was when a Fed Ex guy came up the steps and I had the outer front door wide open. She nearly went thru the inner door. She was actually salivating. lol. When I got there in a few seconds, he was practically wetting his pants. He looked like what we call Tobacco Road around here, and I didn't like his looks myself. Needless to say he left the package outside. lol. She was still snarling as he got back into his truck. I know Collies aren't biters by nature but if she can do a show like that, it's probably enough.

 

[planet molosser]

Yes it does only because I get to the sCh club early on Sundays in SPring to watch them a few years ago.. ANd I listen to them and many of the things you said rings true.

I edited my post since it was a confusion on my part...

Thanks for the detail post I could never of written as well as you did.
So that others know what we talk of thanks jd

 

[ToscasMom]

As a side note, I had a cat that actually attacked a derserving person once. Now that was amazing. It sure calmed him down. hahahaha.

 

[planet molosser]

Tosca I will add to that.
Last week we had baby lambs and our hay guy came into to the barn cause my dogs know him and ..

Ivan our 225lb Ram knocked him on his A--..His horns carry a punch.
Who needs dogs I got a RAM!!!

 

[ihartgonzo]

I know Gonzo would protect me & my family. Not only that, but more importantly, he has awesome bite inhibition AND I totally trust his judgement. He hasn't growled at anyone that didn't deserve it, not would he bite anyone that didn't deserve it.

Fozzie, on the other hand... I dunno. I couldn't imagine him biting anyone/anything! He has woofed at questionable strangers, though.

 

[ihartgonzo]

Who needs dogs I got a RAM!!!

pshhh, I want an attack Ram! Lucky!

 

[TopShelfPets]

My family dog growing up was a terrier mutt named "Peaches". We used to joke that the only way he could kill someone is by licking them to death. Honestly, he'd probably just wag his tail at burglars and wander around the house like "here, let me show you where the stereo is."

I don't think I've had Jager long enough, nor is he well trained enough, for me to make that call. He's calming down again (we moved a couple weeks ago) and he's seen a couple service guys, but i crated him when they were around. He does jump on new people, but i'm training that out of him.

My grandmother lives here too, and she's got a 3 year old bichon... I'm a dog lover, but i just can't stand that spoiled ball of fluff sometimes. My grandmother thinks she's a great protector because she barks at the mail slot and the doorbell. A really annoying shrill yappy bark. I don't think it would actually scare anyone.

 

[Spirit2010]

no Hershey wouldn't do anything, sadly, shrugs, maybe he will surprise me.

 

[ToscasMom]

ROFL you go RAM!

This guy had installed replacement windows and I had a seal break on one in my bedroom. He wouldn't answer my calls so I reported him to the BBB, since I was a judge there, they came down on him. He was furious when he came over and was standing in my bedroom with his finger pointing to my nose about reporting him. My cat Bomart sprung off the dresser and claw-hung from his chest. He was so scared he replaced that window in under 5 mintues and left very quietly. Hahahaha. You go CAT!

 

[darkchild16]

Walker yes he will and he has. One of my exs came to my house when i told him i wanted to break up and he tried to hit me and beat me up in my drive way. Walker was in the yard with me because i didnt trust being with this guy without him. Well he reached up to slap me and walker got between us growling and snarling then he kicked walker in the ribs(found out later he cracked some) and walker bite his arm when he lifted it again to punch me. All I had to say was walker enough and he released. The ACO came and actully told the idiot that he deserved what he got and that my dog was not aggressive and that he was doing his job.

Booger and Tytus would we have "practiced" with them. Meaning we had someone they didnt know come up to me and lift their hands like they were going to strike me and they both went insane. Tytus went to the store with me and walker one night in the not so good side of town and i was alone. Some huge guy came up to the truck trying to reach in it(he was drunk) and tytus growled when he didnt back up he "bit" his hand. Didnt break skin or anything because he could tell it was unneeded but he did scare the guy into leaving me alone.

 

[casablanca1]

I think, unless they're specifically trained to attack, it's impossible to know what they'd do. Sort of like how people react in hugely diverse and often surprising ways to unfamiliar events. I believe my first dog would have laid down her life for me, because she had appointed herself my mother. Nothing to do with biting or aggression or training, in her case it would be maternal instinct. My second dog I have no idea, and I think my current dog would be least likely, as she's appointed herself my puppy and would probably look to me, ultimately, to protect her. She puts on a big show of possessiveness, though, so her Devil Dog expression is a big deterrent.

 

[Whisper]

Millie would absolutely. She knows when I am scared around a person, and tenses up in a way that only happens when she knows I feel frightened and threatened. If it persists she raises her hair up and snarls. She makes me feel safe because I know she is a very, very good-natured dog who loves people and she can absolutely be trusted unless there is a real threat. I can completely tell the difference between her barks.
She has a bark for my mom coming home, an unknown animal in the yard, a known animal in the yard, strangers, (which are all alerts) and a very serious bark when trying to scare a threatening person off.
Lucy, no way. She is very puppy-like and at only a year and a half old she can not sense danger like a more mature, in-tune dog would do.

My aunt's dog saved my from a complete psycho when I was younger and I cherish the memories I had with him. He was an AWESOME dog.

 

[Psyfalcon]

Mine don't even bluff well. Some yapping, but the tails are going, and they're actually bouncing to say HI! My old retriever would have if really pushed, but our current herd is more likely to knock someone over out of excitement, or hide under the couch.

In my next dog though, I am looking for a little more of that instinct, and at least try to bluff if something bad happened.

 

[Roxy's CD]

I have to agree that unless it happens it's pretty hard to say...

Unfortunately we've been attacked a few times by other dogs. Hades suprisingly was the one who stepped up to the plate while Roxy was absolutely terrified.

Roxy as well, I am more than confident would protect me from a person. A few times strange, drunken old men have approached me late at night, and Roxy sounded off. She looked pretty intimidating, yano, the saliva flying out of the mouth, all teeth etc.

So, Hades would protect me against a dog, and Roxy covers the scary human base. LOL