Would your dog defend you?

[oc_spirit]

Both dogs have growled at various threats and both dogs have lunged with the intent to bite. OC couldn''t reach because he was at the end of his leash.

In OC''s case he was protecting me, someone came out of the shadows at night and came quick towards us and he lunged, got stopped short by the leash and the dude turned around and sped the other way instead LOL

In Ronan''s case, his old owner was holding a punching bag for one of his worker''s and the worker punched so hard it made Ronan''s old owner take a step back a bit so Ronan lunged at the guy, made contact, but let go as soon as his old owner told him to.

So will they act? Yes and its a little beyond a show when they feel the need but I dont know how much of a threat it would take before they backed off. I also dont know if when they are together if they would have more courage as thus far there has been no need for them to react to a threat.

My BF''s female AmBull WILL bite and WILL protect and she does not back down. She has been tested when she was younger. Someone would have to be a fool to come at us when she is around.

 

[planet molosser]

We socialized the hell out of Coz from 2.5 Months to 2.5 years before we did bite work.

Allot of control work.
First we passed CGC than TDI, FCI tan, than did some Civil to pass the ATTS.
Last we did bite work.

Now it is fun to him..

We work with the SCH club of Buffalo to test our dogs and we will go off to some new ones summer 07

I must add I have MORE control over my dogs after they learn to bite in defense and when to stop via a OUT.

It also teaches high defensive natural breeds that NOT_ all bites mean you must eat or hate the bad guy .
They learn they bark -growl & display most bad threatening guys go away.
Some stay and they bite and they still WIN but do NOT hate.

Year sago a dog of my breed did defend when burglers broke in.
Got shot 2x and lived but had to be put to sleep later due to lack of control..
Since he was never socialized off property or worked before the attack.
He then under a bad case detemined all STRANGERS should be attacked threatening or not..

 

[2BlackDogs]

I don't know if Bear would defend me of not. He is allert to his surroundings but he doesn't bark much. He doesn't bark when someone knocks on the door and usually welcomes strangers in the house with a loving lick. But dogs can sense danger and I would hope that if I was in danger and he was with me, he would stand up for me.

People tell me that he looks agressive and most people avoid him just by his size and how he looks. But he is the most loving dog I've ever owned and I think he has a sweet face.

 

[Dreeza]

honestly, i doubt it...

Oakley would prob run up and jump on someone with intentions to play, lol. I think if a person reacted harshly to him, he would most likely give them his evil snarl and fake-bite or something...

I have however seen him growl at one person on the street...it was some drunk scary looking homeless guy...thats the only time ive seen him react to someone though.

 

[RD]

Sis, thanks LOL @ auto pilot. My dog does that in agility if we run the same course more than once.

My dog will be 3 this summer, he's come to my defense several times. He's shown un-warranted aggression once, when he was a puppy and I was wrestling with someone. He never got past barking and growling, though, before he realized that it wasn't a real threat. Hasn't done anything of the sort since.

I consider him a stable dog, and he has great social skills with other people. He didn't pass his TDI test, unfortunately. He's a little on the intense side to do hospital visits (and by that I don't mean untrained, he's just... intense. lol) but he's still very much a social butterfly. I take him everywhere with me.

To be honest my biggest problem with him is lack of control in threatening situations. Recently a guy I've had major issues with decided to ride by my house on a bike, throw something at me without stopping and ride away. Dakota reacted to that and took off after him, chased him about 1/2 mile down the street despite me giving him emergency drop and recall commands. I don't think it's because he's psychotic or vicious (he used to play with this guy a lot) I just think that he needs more proofing in that kind of situation, and I rarely encounter situations like that where I'm able to focus on the dog.

 

[SisMorphine]

I must add I have MORE control over my dogs after they learn to bite in defense and when to stop via a OUT.

It also teaches high defensive natural breeds that NOT_ all bites mean you must eat or hate the bad guy .
They learn they bark -growl & display most bad threatening guys go away.
Some stay and they bite and they still WIN but do NOT hate.

Yup that's the way to do it!!

I also must say that I'm impressed that you found a Sch club which will allow you to do civil work. Most Sch clubs that my friends have tried to go to will not allow any civil (rediculous, IMO), so that's awesome that you found one!!

RD:
Where are you located? I can see if my trainer knows anyone in your area to work with.

 

[RD]

I'm in central Arizona.

 

[Denaluvscorgis]

I'm really not sure about my two to be honest.

 

[planet molosser]

SIS -LOL true so true. Mind you the SCH owners are not in favor or it.
The owner of the SCH club of Buffalo allows me AFTER the others leave.
They dont like rare breeds let alone people who do not trial.
Here is Owen working Coz his 2nd time.
First time I got yelled out for 30- mins all my control work he was telling me loosen up to give a GOOD boy and not to give any verbal cues or body cues that would stop him from coming out.
I LEARNED allot!!!!


The above pic is play guy raised stick to me he went for bite.

But this pic is how we started and how most of my dogs are tested.
They must get between me and the bad guy and display.
Most will not push past this.....

First the guy swung the toy at me and screamed at me .
Then he threw it at the dog who as you can see did not target the toy but him. He was NOT allowed a bite this year he was to defensive..

 

[BostonBanker]

Not a chance . And that is fine with me. I figure the majority of criminals would see someone with a dog that could pass as a pit, and probably move on to the next victim anyway.

 

[planet molosser]

Boston so true many years ago we had to take the bus passed the Malbaro projects in Brooklyn.

So we would hear the horror stories of rape murder and all crime.

What was funny one floor had the lowest crime rate.
Because the dog was a insane loud Chihuahua that would Flip out witih every given noise.

It did not stop a murder of a wife from her hubby- That owned the dog.
But it did slow down the crime on that floor..

They figured this out cause as soon as the dog left after the killing.
Aparts never burglarized before in 7 yrs were robbed.

Deterants is normally what is needed to prevent MOST crimes.

 

[Lizmo]

Yes, I think Lizzie would. Just because I have such a close bond with her. And no, she is not trained that way, she is trained to like a except new people. BUT, she reads body laguage like crazy with new people, she watches, stares, and sniffs ANY new person coming any where CLOSE to me. And yes, I love that in her, and when I tense up, she is on full alert. Not the playful pup she always is, she is watching very intensly at everything.

Now, Major, Not sure about him....he is soooo happy with new people around, he doesn't care much lol

 

[DanL]

PM, I agree, a dog that is trained in bite work is going to be more reliable than one that's not, which is why I never understood the "no bite/PP training" thing for TDI dogs. I'm almost positive Delta doesn't allow it at all, but one of my trainers for Gunnar was a CGC/TDI evaluator and did a lot of TD work and she said that TDI didn't allow dogs with bite training. She was recruiting Gunnar and I pretty heavily but it just wasn't for me, too sedentary and Gunnar would start to get ancy, and at that point, he was about 9 months old and we weren't sure if we wanted to train him on bite work yet, so we didn't go thru with the TD certification. I don't think it was her being fearful of a bite trained dog, she had a nice GSD herself.

 

[DanL]

Yes, I think Lizzie would. Just because I have such a close bond with her. And no, she is not trained that way, she is trained to like a except new people. BUT, she reads body laguage like crazy with new people, she watches, stares, and sniffs ANY new person coming any where CLOSE to me. And yes, I love that in her, and when I tense up, she is on full alert. Not the playful pup she always is, she is watching very intensly at everything.

Now, Major, Not sure about him....he is soooo happy with new people around, he doesn't care much lol

How old is Lizzie? I ask because I really don't think any dog that is much under 18 months,and even older in some breeds (like my GSD, who isn't protective at 2 years old) is even capable of true defense/protection. They simply don't have the maturity to have a defensive drive yet. Defensive drive means no backing down when it comes to fight or flight. You can do some training on defense with a younger dog, but it is more of a game and not serious until they are old enough to have that drive fully developed. Barking, growling, and possibly fear induced biting would be more what you'd expect from an immature dog. The other things she is doing already- watching, sniffing, evaluating people, is pretty normal behavior.

A friend of mine had a Rottie (who passed away at a pretty young age, I forget why now). He told me with her, it was like someone flipped a switch and turned on her protective instinct one day when she was about 2 years old. Prior to that she was happy go lucky, barking at strange noises and stuff but never deciding that the house was hers to defend.

 

[planet molosser]

Dan I agree..

But few do they see all bite work as dangerous.

PS so did my husband he thought I would lose the control I had on the dog I worked so hard to get.

Since my dogs mature late I TDi test on a 12 month old is not really a good final outlook of my breed.

As I said Coz would fail today . He decides who he rolls over for.

I only have one OLDER dog female that at age 6 can do it all.
1 out of 12 so it is not a normal breed triat for my breed.

Would like to see pics of your dogs..

 

[SisMorphine]

So TDI has a specific section for if a dog will roll over or not?

My two males definitely would never roll over for anyone. Though Mike isn't aggressive with people, and will roll over for belly scratchings from a friendly stranger, it is in no way a sign of submission and he will NOT allow anyone to physically roll him over. Wally is super calm and loves people, did great with his limited therapy work, but he's an alpha male! You roll him over you're screwed!

Right now Athena can be rolled over, but that's because she's still a puppy. When she's full grown I expect her to not roll over for anyone. I don't want a dog who submits that easily. It is possible to have an easy going dog who at the same time is not super submissive. I guess that's why hearing that TDI requires it kind of disturbs me.

 

[SisMorphine]

I'm in central Arizona.

I have club on Tuesday so I'll check for you. As of now I only personally know of the one I work with in Maine, and a woman in Michigan that I would recommend. But hopefully my trainer will know more.

 

[Lizmo]

How old is Lizzie? I ask because I really don't think any dog that is much under 18 months,and even older in some breeds (like my GSD, who isn't protective at 2 years old) is even capable of true defense/protection. They simply don't have the maturity to have a defensive drive yet. Defensive drive means no backing down when it comes to fight or flight. You can do some training on defense with a younger dog, but it is more of a game and not serious until they are old enough to have that drive fully developed. Barking, growling, and possibly fear induced biting would be more what you'd expect from an immature dog. The other things she is doing already- watching, sniffing, evaluating people, is pretty normal behavior.

A friend of mine had a Rottie (who passed away at a pretty young age, I forget why now). He told me with her, it was like someone flipped a switch and turned on her protective instinct one day when she was about 2 years old. Prior to that she was happy go lucky, barking at strange noises and stuff but never deciding that the house was hers to defend.

Lizzie is 2, she will be 3 on May 2 But like I said she is not trained to be a protective dog. And yes, in some of the situations we have been in with other dogs, she would fight till some one looses. That is just her personality. She is the Alpha dog. She is not going to let some other dog boss her around.

And I am not saying in ANY way is she aggressive with other dogs. She LOVES to play with dogs.

 

[Aussie Red]

With Whiskey YES. He will endanger his life to save mine or one of my grandkids and has proven so many times. ACDs are very defensive breeds anyway and if they are properly trained and worked they are dynamite in a compact package. Whiskey is a typical ACD and is standoffish as he should be and does not accept strangers anywhere near me no matter where we are. He won't attack them but will put himself between me and the stranger until he sees I am secure. If I don't so that I am happy to see someone he lets them know back away while you can or meet my teeth.

 

[whatszmatter]

most people think bite work creates dangerous dogs. I was sitting in on a group of regional AKC members talking about implementing the working dog program and were shown videos of biteowork. They had no idea of what they were watching and most came to the conclusion that it was "disturbing". I hate giving the impression that it is all fun and games, because there is a definite degree of responsibility that comes with it, but it does not make dogs dangerous.

BTW, most SchH clubs don't do civil work, or advertise it is for a number of reasons.

#1 liability, club insurance doesn't always cover this type of training or specifically exludes it.

#2 you get a lot of people that just want a "guard" dog or an "attack" dog training for sport keeps most of those people away that aren't serious about what they're doing and just want a dangerous dog IMO. You always get the people that know next to nothing about what we're doing, come in with a 3 month old puppy and say, "This dog isn't aggressive enough, I want him to guard my daughter", stuff like that, we just tell them we don't do that and they move along. Long time members or people that have proven things to a club will probably be allowed to do some of that training.

#3 Most people have absolutely ZERO need for a dog with civil training. Once you cross that threshold, you can't go back. Like what happened with one of your dogs (i forgot who's) that was part of an attack, defended you then saw everyone as a threat after that. There is a huge amount of liability that comes with a dog that has civil work done, and not many people can handle that, or want to once they find out what its really like. with a perfect dog, great, but most dogs aren't perfect.

I've never had a dog that needed to protect me in any situation and if I was really confronted in that situation i'd probably be protecting my dogs just as much and trying to get the hell out of there. One is too young, and the other has never growled snarled or lunged at anyone except on the field, or wherever we were training. She's on more alert at night for sure and watches people carefully till she's satisfied they aren't a threat and we move on. One night though, when we were moving a few years ago, she was barking quite a bit, which she never lets out more than a quiet "woof" at anything. we were sleeping on the living room floor on camping mats cause our bed was already moved. anyway, the next morning our screen, that the landlords had just screwed into the side of the building was ripped out on one side, they couldn't get the other side off and probably heard the dog and left. She's been trained, been tested and pressured, but I don't care to ever find out what she'd do for "real"

It's funny cause the training is pretty real to her, i know some people that give their dogs fun bites on themselves, no defense, no threat, just a game. My dog won't do that with me, she jumps up on the sleeve and looks at me. I can make all the prey movements and frustration I want, and nothing. Now the decoy steps out and threatens sleeve or no sleeve and its game time. Kind of funny to see.