This is kind of crappy...

[Lolas Dad]

Woow, where do you live? We're getting a Rails to Trails built right now!

Middletown NJ. This trail can be seen at http://monmouthcountyparks.com/documents/130/henry_09.pdf

Actually for your information that is not good for horses, it is very bad on their feet legs and spines. Im sure my vet who graduated form the top equine school in the region and IMO in the country wouldnt steer me wrong

and i like my bikes on dirt. lot softer ride. and you could never et me to walk mydog on pavement long. its not really that good for them either.

Perhaps you should have at least a front suspension bike. The problems I see with dirt trails unless your mountain biking is that they get muddy even after a rain and when they get dry they tend to get ruts in them kind of like a dirt road does that's not graded on a regular basis.

As for walking a dog that long on a paved trail I do not know anyone that would walk themselves 18 miles let alone their dog. If I did want to walk the full 18 miles of the trail and Lola was with me I could carry her and walk it faster because she is like any other dog she likes to check everything out and that would actually slow me down. Years ago when I was in high school I used to do the March Of Dimes walk every year. It was a 20 mile walk and the last time I did it I completed it in four hours.

As for her doing 18 miles and myself doing 18 miles I might sometime along with her but neither of us will be walking it. She will ride in her bike trailer as she usually does when we are on the trail. Another reason for not doing dirt trails is the trailer has no suspension and the pavement is smoother than the dirt trails. There is padding in the floor of the trailer and I went one step further and added a fleece crate mat to it making it even more comfortable for her. Maybe you should get one for your dog and take him or her bike riding with you.

Trailers_Main

 

[puppydog]

Sooo, dogs that eat junk like Ol'Roy (basically just grains...) shouldn't need to be cleaned up after since it's 'just grains'?

Like I said earlier, the tone of my post isn't meant to come off as mad. I still don't understand. . .I see how it could be unsafe to stop in a public place, but then I question why they should be in a public place riding? (NOT on a dirt trail where it's made for horses)

So, what you are in fact saying is that horse poop and dog poop is identical?

 

[dobesgalore]

Can you imagine how heavy all the poop off of a 5 or 10 mile ride would be? You would have to go back again with something motorized to tote it all. I don't know that that would be a good thing on walking and biking trails. Could be a whole nother problem altogether. If it is such a problem, I think horses, bikers and dog walkers should have separate trails. Otherwise, expect horse poop.

 

[Linds]

Another reason for not doing dirt trails is the trailer has no suspension and the pavement is smoother than the dirt trails. There is padding in the floor of the trailer and I went one step further and added a fleece crate mat to it making it even more comfortable for her. Maybe you should get one for your dog and take him or her bike riding with you.

Trailers_Main

As someone who bikes with her dog running along side her and not in a trailor attached to the bike, I would HATE it if they paved the trails. It's much easier on a dogs joints, bones and feet if the path is not paved not to mention my body if I fall. Same goes for runners/walkers and I imagine for horses it would be even worse since they are also carrying the weight of a rider.

 

[dobesgalore]

As someone who bikes with her dog running along side her and not in a trailor attached to the bike, I would HATE it if they paved the trails. It's much easier on a dogs joints, bones and feet if the path is not paved not to mention my body if I fall. Same goes for runners/walkers and I imagine for horses it would be even worse since they are also carrying the weight of a rider.

yep, not so much the weight of the rider but the concusion of the horses' feet on pavement over time will cause lameness, particulary navicular. There are special shoes and pads they can wear for that reason that are used by city carriage horses, police horses etc... but the average person dosn't ride on pavement enough to go to that extreme.

 

[darkchild16]

Middletown NJ. This trail can be seen at http://monmouthcountyparks.com/documents/130/henry_09.pdf



Perhaps you should have at least a front suspension bike. The problems I see with dirt trails unless your mountain biking is that they get muddy even after a rain and when they get dry they tend to get ruts in them kind of like a dirt road does that's not graded on a regular basis.

As for walking a dog that long on a paved trail I do not know anyone that would walk themselves 18 miles let alone their dog. If I did want to walk the full 18 miles of the trail and Lola was with me I could carry her and walk it faster because she is like any other dog she likes to check everything out and that would actually slow me down. Years ago when I was in high school I used to do the March Of Dimes walk every year. It was a 20 mile walk and the last time I did it I completed it in four hours.

As for her doing 18 miles and myself doing 18 miles I might sometime along with her but neither of us will be walking it. She will ride in her bike trailer as she usually does when we are on the trail. Another reason for not doing dirt trails is the trailer has no suspension and the pavement is smoother than the dirt trails. There is padding in the floor of the trailer and I went one step further and added a fleece crate mat to it making it even more comfortable for her. Maybe you should get one for your dog and take him or her bike riding with you.

Trailers_Main

Seeing as my dog is 75 pounds at best and ihe can walk he will walk. Plus he actually needs EXCERCISE sitting in a trailer will NOT provide that.

 

[Lizmo]

So, what you are in fact saying is that horse poop and dog poop is identical?

No.....? Did you even read my post?

 

[Pops2]

actually i have worked cattle from horseback as a kid. first started riding at about 8 because we moved a lot and only got to do it during family vacations to visit family in TX. at 12 we moved to TX and i started working stock for my uncles every summer & other long breaks in the school year. that went on for 3 years until we moved to VA when i was 15. while working stock i also was "taught" to break horses (raw force back then the smart training didn't begin until after breaking) and train them for working cattle. i didn't really learn much except that horses are dangerous & i didn't care for them. once again i've been kicked, stomped, bit (a lot), brushed off on fences & trees and rolled on.

Horse ARE far more dangerous than dogs...

I'm not saying that a dog is a horse--I'm saying that an animal that you CHOOSE to bring into public needs to be cleaned up after. If you can't do it safely, don't take the animal out into public.

and this is why i think there should not be multiuse trails in parks or even on groomed high traffic "wildlands" like some national forrest areas. i am well aware of the dangers of mixing strange dogs & horses having seen both killed in the chaos that comes from it. and as for the horse crap, i don't care about the difference. i don't want my kids having to dance around it on a walk anymore than i wnat them having to dance around dog crap. if you can't grasp the concept of being polite & cleaning after your animal than you have no one to blame for horse bans except yourself.

 

[Gramps Fish]

So people on a dog forum were saying riders should poop and scoop.. your thoughs? - Chronicle Forums
watch with interest...

Well, actually, people who are "horse people" say good trail etiquette for equestrians is more like "poop and kick."

A Google search for

trail etiquette kick horse droppings

brings up some web sites that say something along the lines of "on a multi-use trail, good trail etiquette includes having a rider move off the trail when a horse needs to relieve itself. If stepping off the trail is not possible, the rider should kick the droppings off the trail."

That isn't from folks in a dog forum. That's from places like the West Virginia Equine Association; Equestrian Trails, Inc; Kin Krest Saddle Club; and The Maryland Horse Council - all of whom I assume are passionate supporters of horses and riders.

My guess is those folks, who love horses, are concerned that if horse riders continue to leave piles of horse poop on multi-use trails, sooner or later the horses will be banned from the trails.

If you are riding a horse on a multi-use path, and you know that other users of the path might someday get all horses banned from the path if riders clean up your horse's mess, why in the world wouldn't you either follow the good trail etiquette guidelines suggested by all those "pro horse" groups or find some other way to keep the trails clean so everyone can enjoy the multi-use trails?

If those folks who ride horses on multi-use trails find a way to either keep "road apples" off the trails or get them moved off to the side pretty quickly, they'll probably get to continue sharing the trails for a long, long time.

It may not be fair, and it may not be "right," but if horse owners leave enough piles of horse poop on multi-use trails, horses are likely to sooner or later be banned from those trails.

It does not matter how inconvenient, unsafe, or even unnecessary that clean up may be. During the 4 mile walk that prompted my original post, Tessa and I were on "multi-use" portions of the trail for about a mile and a half. We saw several dozen people walking the trail, 8 to 10 people jogging, about a half dozen bicycle riders, over a dozen piles of horse poop, one deer, and no horses. Horse owners are such a small minority of the population that when the walkers, joggers and bicycle riders decide they don't want to deal with horse poop on multi-use paths, horses will be banned.

Look at all the green spaces in urban areas that are surrounded by "no dogs allowed" signs because so many irresponsible dog owners failed to clean up after their dogs, and there are a lot more dog owners than there are horse owners.

So, perhaps instead of posting in the horse forum about "dog owners are telling us we have to scoop up horse dropping from any trail we're on," it would be more accurate to say "dog owners are warning us that if we don't keep multi-use paths free of horse droppings, the walkers, joggers and bicyclists will get us banned from horse paths the same way dogs are being banned from so many parks and public spaces."

Tessa and I regularly walk past dozens of large green areas surrounded by "No Dogs Allowed" signs (one area promises a fine of up to $500). Almost every time I walk by, I think "we can't go in here because so many idiots didn't clean up after their dogs."

It may not be fair. It may not be right. But if you're one of those folks who rides a horse on a multi-use path and leaves horse poop on the path, there will probably come a day when someone on horseback rides up to entrance of a multi-use trail, sees a sign that says "no horses allowed," think to himself "we can't go in here because so many idiots didn't clean up after their horses," and be referring to you.

So instead of looking at dog owners who don't recognize how unnecessary, inconvenient, unsafe, difficult, or downright stupid it is for horse riders to clean up the mess their horses make on multi-use trails as folks who are want to get you banned from those multi-use trails, consider us folks who are pointing out a problem and hoping you get it fixed before the walkers, joggers and bicycle riders get you banned from multi-use trails in the same way we're being banned from so many of the green areas our dogs would love to play in?

Have a GREAT day!

Rob

 

[FoxyWench]

lizmo, the problem is not so much the "grain" its that because a carnivore is disgned to consume MEAT (any amount of meat) they have different bacteria in their digestive system, this bacteria is shed with the poop, and its the bacteria itself that is "dangerous"
add to that the consistency and texture of dog waste, it is always smelly, slimey and will stick to everything.
and even the lowest quality food has animal fats and some kind of meat source (even if its byproducts).
human waste is the same.
its the way the digestive tract actually breaks down the food into waste and forms it.

a horses digestive tract doesnt have that bacteria, their food is 100% fiber, no animal product at all, and the horses digestive tract doesnt "process" the food in the way that a carnivores sytem does...

it comes out almost the exact same way it goes in with not even remotly the same health risks, a completly different consistency (standing on horse poop is like standing on a pile of wet leaves, a good compost pile or moist GOOD dirt, it doesnt stick like dog waste does, it comes off easily and isnt usually slippy. it also smells like it did when it whent in, like moist hay and oats.

i hope this answers that part at least.

its all about the "biology" of each animals digestive system and the bacteria involved in the process that makes the difference between the poops and their offensivness.

 

[Lolas Dad]

lizmo, the problem is not so much the "grain" its that because a carnivore is disgned to consume MEAT (any amount of meat) they have different bacteria in their digestive system, this bacteria is shed with the poop, and its the bacteria itself that is "dangerous"
add to that the consistency and texture of dog waste, it is always smelly, slimey and will stick to everything.
and even the lowest quality food has animal fats and some kind of meat source (even if its byproducts).
human waste is the same.
its the way the digestive tract actually breaks down the food into waste and forms it.

a horses digestive tract doesnt have that bacteria, their food is 100% fiber, no animal product at all, and the horses digestive tract doesnt "process" the food in the way that a carnivores sytem does...

it comes out almost the exact same way it goes in with not even remotly the same health risks, a completly different consistency (standing on horse poop is like standing on a pile of wet leaves, a good compost pile or moist GOOD dirt, it doesnt stick like dog waste does, it comes off easily and isnt usually slippy. it also smells like it did when it whent in, like moist hay and oats.

i hope this answers that part at least.

its all about the "biology" of each animals digestive system and the bacteria involved in the process that makes the difference between the poops and their offensivness.

So if horse poop is supposed to be so good then why aren't people eating it? edited by mod

 

[Linds]

It does not matter how inconvenient, unsafe, or even unnecessary that clean up may be.

Ummm....yes it does. Especially the unsafe part. If it's unsafe for the rider, the horse and the people around them then I think it matter a lot.

I say again, if it bothers you so much work with your community in hiring someone to walk the trails and clean it up. I'm sure there are a lot of teens that would take that as a summer job. That way everyone wins. Wouldn't that be easier than creating an potentially dangerous situation

 

[AGonzalez]

That is like saying if your dog ever scares wild life in anyway it shouldn't be allowed on trails. How are you going to do that? If I don't notice my horse pooping how can I clean it up?

.

Dekka, I think they'd prefer we ride like this:

So if our horse poops we will be aware...

 

[Lolas Dad]

Ummm....yes it does. Especially the unsafe part. If it's unsafe for the rider, the horse and the people around them then I think it matter a lot.

I say again, if it bothers you so much work with your community in hiring someone to walk the trails and clean it up. I'm sure there are a lot of teens that would take that as a summer job. That way everyone wins. Wouldn't that be easier than creating an potentially dangerous situation

I go along with that. At the same time let's pay for the cleanup by putting a tax on the horses in the county whether or not they use the trails. Why should joe taxpayer have to pay for someone to clean up after a horse when they do not own one.

 

[smkie]

As someone who bikes with her dog running along side her and not in a trailor attached to the bike, I would HATE it if they paved the trails. It's much easier on a dogs joints, bones and feet if the path is not paved not to mention my body if I fall. Same goes for runners/walkers and I imagine for horses it would be even worse since they are also carrying the weight of a rider.

I take Mary places without pavement just for this very reason. Concrete and asphalt are incredibly painful for her. I really don't want my dogs running on pavement at all if I can avoid it. The one time my friend Logan took VIctor on a run with him I could tell Victor's feet hurt when he got home. Never again.

 

[AGonzalez]

It does not matter how inconvenient, unsafe, or even unnecessary that clean up may be.

Maybe not to you, but to people who still enjoy horses, it is very important how SAFE any particular activity is before engaging in it.

That is purely ignorant to say it doesn't matter how "unsafe" it is. Would you like to be responsible for someones death because you whine about horse poop? Oh well, I suppose it doesn't matter to you, it's not YOUR problem. But for some of us, safety when riding is a large concern.

Look at Christopher Reeves (I'm sure you know who this is) who spent the rest of his life in a wheel chair due to a riding accident. So, you'd much rather that we take that risk just to appease people like you?

I'm sorry, I don't see your logic, if there is one at all. I clean of my dog crap, I have no issue with that...and yes dogs are being banned from being walked because of clean up...because it's a HEALTH HAZARD.

I guess you had better make sure to bring extra big baggies with you next time to pick up all the deer, bear, skunk, etc poop because it wouldn't appease you to have that kind of poop out there either right?

 

[Linds]

I go along with that. At the same time let's pay for the cleanup by putting a tax on the horses in the county whether or not they use the trails. Why should joe taxpayer have to pay for someone to clean up after a horse when they do not own one.

You know, I doubt things work like this but my first thought when you asked why joe taxpayer should pay for the clean up is because YOU are the one that wants it cleaned up.

If the majority of the tax payers could care less if a completely bio degradable horse poop gets cleaned up or not then you should put up with the poop or clean it up yourself.

If the majority have an issue with the poop then they should be willing to to pay a little to have it cleaned up to avoid a potentially dangerous and unpredictable situation

 

[smkie]

How much horse manure do you actually encounter on a daily basis. I think the county taxes need to go for sewer repair, streets, and a whole lot more important matters than the random horse pile. FOxy gave an excellent post about why it doesn't hurt anything. For the life of me I really can't see why anyone would be offended. I actually see more deer and geese droppings than I do horse. Which we step over and forget about.

 

[Dekka]

Thank you Smkie... that is the whole point.. just step over and continue...

Really does the world need more restrictions? Does your whine about horse poop over ride the people wanting to trail ride?

 

[~Jessie~]

I guess you had better make sure to bring extra big baggies with you next time to pick up all the deer, bear, skunk, etc poop because it wouldn't appease you to have that kind of poop out there either right?

Haven't you seen the Charmin commercials? Sheesh! Wild animals wipe themselves and then flush it. That's why wild animal poop isn't the issue here.

On a more serious note, I rode for most of my life and I never picked up horse poop while on a trail. Not only is it DANGEROUS for myself, the horse, and the other horses/riders while dismounting and LEAVING my horse while bagging its poop, it's also pointless. Step over it and find another trail if it's so bothersome.