This is kind of crappy...
- Thread starter Gramps Fish
- Start date
it wasn't just you, there was a lot of well the shovel would make the horse freak out and a bunch of other similar stuff. if the horse is that freakin skittish it shouldn't be in a public environment like a city/county park w/ a bunch of people. having been stomped, kicked, thrown & rolled on I know haw skittish a horse can be, but i also know a horse can be trained well enough to ignore automatic weapons being shot by their riders. so people are just making excuses is the way i see it.
And to me that pretty much sums up the reason why it would be a bad idea to require horse poop to be picked up after by the rider.
I don't ride horses but I do walk trails and ride my bike through them with Kaylee and to be perfectly honest horse poop has never bothered me. But I get it, that's just me and isn't a reason for everyone else to be okay with it.
BUT, the fact is that this is an animal that is much larger than the largest dog and while it may be perfect for the majority of it's life, never spooking; there is a chance it will happen and when it does the result would be much worse than a dog taking off after a squirrel. The situation would be made even more unpredictable if the rider was not on the horse and rather was paying attention to the poop. Not to mention that people are jerks I've seen way to many bikers fly up behind someone on the horse without a word and pass within mere inches. Can you imagine that happening with no rider on the horse and their attention elsewhere?
The horse people have already stated numerous reasons why it could and would lead to very dangerous situations but also that it's not easy on the horse or the person to be mounting from the ground repeatedly and in some cases impossible. Add that to the fact that you would even have to notice when the horse is pooping it all adds up to be almost laughable to try and require horse poop to be cleaned up by the riders.
If it bothers you so much why not work on getting the community or whoever keeps the trails to hire someone to clear the paths of horse poop rather than make the horse riders put them selves, their horse and other people and animals at risk.
I don't ride horses but I do walk trails and ride my bike through them with Kaylee and to be perfectly honest horse poop has never bothered me. But I get it, that's just me and isn't a reason for everyone else to be okay with it.
BUT, the fact is that this is an animal that is much larger than the largest dog and while it may be perfect for the majority of it's life, never spooking; there is a chance it will happen and when it does the result would be much worse than a dog taking off after a squirrel. The situation would be made even more unpredictable if the rider was not on the horse and rather was paying attention to the poop. Not to mention that people are jerks I've seen way to many bikers fly up behind someone on the horse without a word and pass within mere inches. Can you imagine that happening with no rider on the horse and their attention elsewhere?
The horse people have already stated numerous reasons why it could and would lead to very dangerous situations but also that it's not easy on the horse or the person to be mounting from the ground repeatedly and in some cases impossible. Add that to the fact that you would even have to notice when the horse is pooping it all adds up to be almost laughable to try and require horse poop to be cleaned up by the riders.
If it bothers you so much why not work on getting the community or whoever keeps the trails to hire someone to clear the paths of horse poop rather than make the horse riders put them selves, their horse and other people and animals at risk.
Oh so you were talking about me. I can address that simply.
My horse wasn't very used to being in public, we went to rodeos, we did pick up and barrel racing. I'm not about to have a sharp object attached to ANY animal that weighs 1000 lbs and can fall and easily kill me.
He fell on me once, broken hip, arm, and fractured neck. Yeah I want to carry around a shovel now...
Safety first, horse crap second.
My horse wasn't very used to being in public, we went to rodeos, we did pick up and barrel racing. I'm not about to have a sharp object attached to ANY animal that weighs 1000 lbs and can fall and easily kill me.
He fell on me once, broken hip, arm, and fractured neck. Yeah I want to carry around a shovel now...
Safety first, horse crap second.
Very good point. Just this past weekend, the horse I was riding tripped and fell in the area. I bailed but he still landed on my leg; fortunately I wasn't hurt, and neither was he (nice soft arena footing made for a nice landing lol...also he landed on me with the side of his body so the weight was distributed, instead of a leg or something, which could have made things much worse). But had I been carrying a shovel, that probably would have been a different story. The point isn't just that horse can spook, but that even if you have a bombproof horse, accidents can happen. An accident with a 1200 pound horse is a much bigger deal than an accident with a 100 pound dog.
Pops, clearly you arent experianced with horses. Some horses simply will not tolerate a bag tied to their but. They are a prey animal and this can trigger instincts regardless of how well trained your horse is. Also, carrying a shovel or rake while ridding is just beyond dumb.
I want you to body check your dog as hard as you can in the spine every time he poops and you have to clean it up. Thats what mounting from the ground does to a horse.
I want you to body check your dog as hard as you can in the spine every time he poops and you have to clean it up. Thats what mounting from the ground does to a horse.
Its not that a horse is 'that freakin skittish' Even the most bomb proof of horses will spook. In the back of EVERY horse's mind is a little voice telling it 'you taste good and things want to eat you.. be ready to run'. Its not just an herbivore thing, cows aren't nearly as skittish as horses, but they have horns and have the option to do the 'circle thing' vs run. Every instinct in the horse says RUN when startled. Run first, then look back and see if it was really scary.
I used to have this great flow chart on how horse's dealt with startling things.. it was funny and true.
The other issue is the only way you can get your horse used to trail riding is to do it. Yes you can desensitize your horse to some things at home... but the dog on the flexi lead who tries to wrap itself around your horse's front legs is not something you can really practise for.
I used to have this great flow chart on how horse's dealt with startling things.. it was funny and true.
The other issue is the only way you can get your horse used to trail riding is to do it. Yes you can desensitize your horse to some things at home... but the dog on the flexi lead who tries to wrap itself around your horse's front legs is not something you can really practise for.
I have to say its obvious in this thread those who have not dealt with horses 
A horse is not just a big dog. They act completely different to stimuli.
A horse is 1000 pounds+ No matter how hard your dog pulls there is no comparison.
A dog can't kick you and shatter bones.
A dog (likely) comes back when you call if the leash is jerked out of your hands.
Your dog isn't likely wearing thousands upon thousands of dollars of equipment (that can get destroyed if running loose)
Your dog is not in any way physically harmed by you picking up poop. (mounting and dismounting IS hard on horses)
People can pass you on the trail if you are stooping and scooping, not likely with a horse.
You can just use your hand and little bag to pick up the poop of your dog. What pray tell would you suggest a rider use?
Your dog stops to poop, its easy to tell they are pooping. Riders have mentioned that yes it can be impossible to tell that your horse just went.
Dog poop is gross, slimy, sticky and pungent (at least for non raw fed dogs) horse poop is firm, non sticky and made of grass/
Dogs are companion animals, horses are still legally forms of transport. Do you clean up bits of oil your car may leave in parking lots? (just wondering.. as that is actually harmful)
Its simple to poop and scoop even with an under socialized under trained dog.. even with a bomb proof horse its not going to be a simple 20 second activity.
People with minor mobility issues can still poop and scoop for their dogs, will they be able to get on their horse repeatedly from the ground (forgetting its harmful for the horse)
I too have had horse's fall on me.. its not fun.
So horse people have pointed out its going to hurt horses (physically, no matter how well trained) its going to add danger to horses, people, and equipment.
Horse ARE far more dangerous than dogs... here are some statistics for you non horse people...
Horses are the most dangerous domestic animal (NEISS 2001-2003)
for ever million horses there are 10,000 injuries treated in emergency rooms.. compared to 1/2 that of dogs.
There are 2.16 human fatalities per million horses per year. Dogs don't even come close to that number (I think it was .3 human fatalities per million per year.. its hard to read the chart as its so low)
Horses are dangerous animals, there is no getting around that. I have lost friends to riding accidents. I have been kicked, fallen on, tossed, nerve damage, broken bones etc myself. (I worked with a lot of 'problem horses'.. but a lot of those injuries came from well trained horses when something flukey happened)
So far all you people who think horses should be allowed on the trail but should have no issues picking up after them selves... well I suggest you go take some riding lessons or spend some time working with horses... then we will talk.
A horse is not just a big dog. They act completely different to stimuli.
A horse is 1000 pounds+ No matter how hard your dog pulls there is no comparison.
A dog can't kick you and shatter bones.
A dog (likely) comes back when you call if the leash is jerked out of your hands.
Your dog isn't likely wearing thousands upon thousands of dollars of equipment (that can get destroyed if running loose)
Your dog is not in any way physically harmed by you picking up poop. (mounting and dismounting IS hard on horses)
People can pass you on the trail if you are stooping and scooping, not likely with a horse.
You can just use your hand and little bag to pick up the poop of your dog. What pray tell would you suggest a rider use?
Your dog stops to poop, its easy to tell they are pooping. Riders have mentioned that yes it can be impossible to tell that your horse just went.
Dog poop is gross, slimy, sticky and pungent (at least for non raw fed dogs) horse poop is firm, non sticky and made of grass/
Dogs are companion animals, horses are still legally forms of transport. Do you clean up bits of oil your car may leave in parking lots? (just wondering.. as that is actually harmful)
Its simple to poop and scoop even with an under socialized under trained dog.. even with a bomb proof horse its not going to be a simple 20 second activity.
People with minor mobility issues can still poop and scoop for their dogs, will they be able to get on their horse repeatedly from the ground (forgetting its harmful for the horse)
I too have had horse's fall on me.. its not fun.
So horse people have pointed out its going to hurt horses (physically, no matter how well trained) its going to add danger to horses, people, and equipment.
Horse ARE far more dangerous than dogs... here are some statistics for you non horse people...
Horses are the most dangerous domestic animal (NEISS 2001-2003)
for ever million horses there are 10,000 injuries treated in emergency rooms.. compared to 1/2 that of dogs.
There are 2.16 human fatalities per million horses per year. Dogs don't even come close to that number (I think it was .3 human fatalities per million per year.. its hard to read the chart as its so low)
Horses are dangerous animals, there is no getting around that. I have lost friends to riding accidents. I have been kicked, fallen on, tossed, nerve damage, broken bones etc myself. (I worked with a lot of 'problem horses'.. but a lot of those injuries came from well trained horses when something flukey happened)
So far all you people who think horses should be allowed on the trail but should have no issues picking up after them selves... well I suggest you go take some riding lessons or spend some time working with horses... then we will talk.
I have to say its obvious in this thread those who have not dealt with horses
A horse is not just a big dog. They act completely different to stimuli.
A horse is 1000 pounds+ No matter how hard your dog pulls there is no comparison.
A dog can't kick you and shatter bones.
A dog (likely) comes back when you call if the leash is jerked out of your hands.
Your dog isn't likely wearing thousands upon thousands of dollars of equipment (that can get destroyed if running loose)
Your dog is not in any way physically harmed by you picking up poop. (mounting and dismounting IS hard on horses)
People can pass you on the trail if you are stooping and scooping, not likely with a horse.
You can just use your hand and little bag to pick up the poop of your dog. What pray tell would you suggest a rider use?
Your dog stops to poop, its easy to tell they are pooping. Riders have mentioned that yes it can be impossible to tell that your horse just went.
Dog poop is gross, slimy, sticky and pungent (at least for non raw fed dogs) horse poop is firm, non sticky and made of grass/
Dogs are companion animals, horses are still legally forms of transport. Do you clean up bits of oil your car may leave in parking lots? (just wondering.. as that is actually harmful)
Its simple to poop and scoop even with an under socialized under trained dog.. even with a bomb proof horse its not going to be a simple 20 second activity.
People with minor mobility issues can still poop and scoop for their dogs, will they be able to get on their horse repeatedly from the ground (forgetting its harmful for the horse)
I too have had horse's fall on me.. its not fun.
So horse people have pointed out its going to hurt horses (physically, no matter how well trained) its going to add danger to horses, people, and equipment.
Horse ARE far more dangerous than dogs... here are some statistics for you non horse people...
Horses are the most dangerous domestic animal (NEISS 2001-2003)
for ever million horses there are 10,000 injuries treated in emergency rooms.. compared to 1/2 that of dogs.
There are 2.16 human fatalities per million horses per year. Dogs don't even come close to that number (I think it was .3 human fatalities per million per year.. its hard to read the chart as its so low)
Horses are dangerous animals, there is no getting around that. I have lost friends to riding accidents. I have been kicked, fallen on, tossed, nerve damage, broken bones etc myself. (I worked with a lot of 'problem horses'.. but a lot of those injuries came from well trained horses when something flukey happened)
So far all you people who think horses should be allowed on the trail but should have no issues picking up after them selves... well I suggest you go take some riding lessons or spend some time working with horses... then we will talk.
A horse is not just a big dog. They act completely different to stimuli.
A horse is 1000 pounds+ No matter how hard your dog pulls there is no comparison.
A dog can't kick you and shatter bones.
A dog (likely) comes back when you call if the leash is jerked out of your hands.
Your dog isn't likely wearing thousands upon thousands of dollars of equipment (that can get destroyed if running loose)
Your dog is not in any way physically harmed by you picking up poop. (mounting and dismounting IS hard on horses)
People can pass you on the trail if you are stooping and scooping, not likely with a horse.
You can just use your hand and little bag to pick up the poop of your dog. What pray tell would you suggest a rider use?
Your dog stops to poop, its easy to tell they are pooping. Riders have mentioned that yes it can be impossible to tell that your horse just went.
Dog poop is gross, slimy, sticky and pungent (at least for non raw fed dogs) horse poop is firm, non sticky and made of grass/
Dogs are companion animals, horses are still legally forms of transport. Do you clean up bits of oil your car may leave in parking lots? (just wondering.. as that is actually harmful)
Its simple to poop and scoop even with an under socialized under trained dog.. even with a bomb proof horse its not going to be a simple 20 second activity.
People with minor mobility issues can still poop and scoop for their dogs, will they be able to get on their horse repeatedly from the ground (forgetting its harmful for the horse)
I too have had horse's fall on me.. its not fun.
So horse people have pointed out its going to hurt horses (physically, no matter how well trained) its going to add danger to horses, people, and equipment.
Horse ARE far more dangerous than dogs... here are some statistics for you non horse people...
Horses are the most dangerous domestic animal (NEISS 2001-2003)
for ever million horses there are 10,000 injuries treated in emergency rooms.. compared to 1/2 that of dogs.
There are 2.16 human fatalities per million horses per year. Dogs don't even come close to that number (I think it was .3 human fatalities per million per year.. its hard to read the chart as its so low)
Horses are dangerous animals, there is no getting around that. I have lost friends to riding accidents. I have been kicked, fallen on, tossed, nerve damage, broken bones etc myself. (I worked with a lot of 'problem horses'.. but a lot of those injuries came from well trained horses when something flukey happened)
So far all you people who think horses should be allowed on the trail but should have no issues picking up after them selves... well I suggest you go take some riding lessons or spend some time working with horses... then we will talk.
I'll second that anyone that thinks that getting on and off a horse and carrying a shovel and a trash bag around with you is what you SHOULD do to be a responsible rider...go take some riding lessons. Go hang around some horse people and maybe you'll realize exactly what you're saying. What is suggested there is not only dangerous for the person, but dangerous for the animal as well.
Maybe I'll have my mom send me the copies of my x-rays from my last riding accident (not freaked out horse either, slipped and fell in some mud and rolled over me) I have a permanent limp, serious neck problems and bone deformity in my right arm because of the severe breaks. That was on a horse that is pony sized, so maybe 600-700 lbs. I actually have some of the MRI's of my knee on disk here at the house...
The best thing to compare it to is a car accident. Top speed is anywhere between 35-45 MPH on a horse. So think about going that fast in your car and rolling it or smashing into a wall. That's the kind of impact you get, except no seatbelts or metal to protect you.
Also, here's another point. If I'm riding my horse down a trail and have to hop down to clean up poop (if I've noticed he went...he's a walk and go kind of guy) and you're walking your dog and come up behind me, your dog spooks my horse and my horse kicks and KILLS your dog...or kicks you...how are you going to feel about that? What if my horse stomps me because of your dog? I don't want to hear "my dog would never" because if it's never been around horses, you don't know that. How would you like to pay my doctors bills?
Or better yet, what if your dogs prey instinct takes over and it bites my horse in the back leg...you can expect a more hefty vet bill than you would a fight with another dog, and YOU would be responsible for it. Not only that, but I'd have every right to be upset about it and your dog could face quarantine time or even death in some places (some places attacking domestic animals is a death sentence) - I've also shot several of my neighbors dogs for chasing and biting our horses.
I say leave it be. Not because I'm biased. I have both dogs and horses, I pick up my dogs crap, I let the horse crap go. It's good fertilizer to boot. I'd also suggest you go to your local rodeo and tell some of the cowboys and cowgirls they need to pick up their horse poop, and watch the expressions you get. Even professional rodeo grounds don't pick it up, they just rake it into the dirt.
ETA: Better yet, here's a great idea! For those of you that thing we should carry shovels and risk this, how about you go hop on a horse forum and ask around what people think, I bet it would closely mimic what kind of responses you see from the horse community here.
Dogs are companion animals, horses are still legally forms of transport. Do you clean up bits of oil your car may leave in parking lots? (just wondering.. as that is actually harmful)
THIS....
do you clean the parking lot if you car drips oil? do you clean the road if it spills coolant (coolant KILLS animals, not just domestic),
another poitn thats also already been brought up...
horses are NOT allowed on ALL trails open to foot/bike traffic...
horses are only allowed on Certain trails, that leaves pleanty of horse free trails to use.
if horse poop is such a big propbelm im sure there are plenty of places for you to go take a walk.
heck, i live in a relitivly SMALL town, but its not a "rural" town, were lodged between some larger cities.
there are horse owners...
in our town there are 4 smaller parks and 2 larger parks, the 4 smaller parks are NO horses...
the 2 larger parks are clearly marked Horse welcome trails and NO HORSES trails...
those with an issue with horse poop, take the trails with no horses allowed...
it realy is that simple...
as a person with a dog you have LOTS of options open to walking your dog, but your neighborhood horse owner may only have 1 option for riding traisl with their horse...
if you try to make cleaning up after your horse a requirment you remove that one trail left, no SANE knowledgable horse owner is going to put themselves, other people and their animal at the kind of risk required to do such things.
pops, and for anyone comparing a horse to a dog, youve obviously never worked with a prey animal...
they are nothign like working with dogs, EVERYTHIGN is a "threat" in a horses mind...
a plastic bag flutters past you can get an imediat "omg what was that its going to eat me" responce.
even the most well trained bombproof horse is thinking the entire world is out to get it, the shere fact a horse will LET a human mount it goes against everythign a horse belives true, and something BEHIND a horse, they cant turn and see whats behind them as easily as your dog or cat...attatch something to its butt, they arnt nessicarily going to thing "oh its just something to hold my poop" there going to think "what the hell is on my butt, omg its got me"
theres a reason carriage horses often wear blinders, even the least reactive horse in the universe is still a flight risk and a horse thats so overconfident that theres absolutly no risk of it spooking is not a horse you want to be dealing with anyway as like an overconfident dog, it just causes some nasty issues.
horses are a very spooky/flighty species, the human race would have been better saddling up a cow than a horse in all truth...
THIS....
do you clean the parking lot if you car drips oil? do you clean the road if it spills coolant (coolant KILLS animals, not just domestic),
another poitn thats also already been brought up...
horses are NOT allowed on ALL trails open to foot/bike traffic...
horses are only allowed on Certain trails, that leaves pleanty of horse free trails to use.
if horse poop is such a big propbelm im sure there are plenty of places for you to go take a walk.
heck, i live in a relitivly SMALL town, but its not a "rural" town, were lodged between some larger cities.
there are horse owners...
in our town there are 4 smaller parks and 2 larger parks, the 4 smaller parks are NO horses...
the 2 larger parks are clearly marked Horse welcome trails and NO HORSES trails...
those with an issue with horse poop, take the trails with no horses allowed...
it realy is that simple...
as a person with a dog you have LOTS of options open to walking your dog, but your neighborhood horse owner may only have 1 option for riding traisl with their horse...
if you try to make cleaning up after your horse a requirment you remove that one trail left, no SANE knowledgable horse owner is going to put themselves, other people and their animal at the kind of risk required to do such things.
pops, and for anyone comparing a horse to a dog, youve obviously never worked with a prey animal...
they are nothign like working with dogs, EVERYTHIGN is a "threat" in a horses mind...
a plastic bag flutters past you can get an imediat "omg what was that its going to eat me" responce.
even the most well trained bombproof horse is thinking the entire world is out to get it, the shere fact a horse will LET a human mount it goes against everythign a horse belives true, and something BEHIND a horse, they cant turn and see whats behind them as easily as your dog or cat...attatch something to its butt, they arnt nessicarily going to thing "oh its just something to hold my poop" there going to think "what the hell is on my butt, omg its got me"
theres a reason carriage horses often wear blinders, even the least reactive horse in the universe is still a flight risk and a horse thats so overconfident that theres absolutly no risk of it spooking is not a horse you want to be dealing with anyway as like an overconfident dog, it just causes some nasty issues.
horses are a very spooky/flighty species, the human race would have been better saddling up a cow than a horse in all truth...
I did post this topic to a large and very active horse forum (arguably the largest/most active horse forum on the internet..it makes chaz look very slow!)
So people on a dog forum were saying riders should poop and scoop.. your thoughs? - Chronicle Forums
watch with interest...
So people on a dog forum were saying riders should poop and scoop.. your thoughs? - Chronicle Forums
watch with interest...
I have to say its obvious in this thread those who have not dealt with horses
A horse is not just a big dog. They act completely different to stimuli.
A horse is not just a big dog. They act completely different to stimuli.
I'm not saying that a dog is a horse--I'm saying that an animal that you CHOOSE to bring into public needs to be cleaned up after. If you can't do it safely, don't take the animal out into public.
Owning animals and bringing them in public is a privilege, in my opinion, not a right.
Sooo, dogs that eat junk like Ol'Roy (basically just grains...) shouldn't need to be cleaned up after since it's 'just grains'?
Like I said earlier, the tone of my post isn't meant to come off as mad. I still don't understand. . .I see how it could be unsafe to stop in a public place, but then I question why they should be in a public place riding? (NOT on a dirt trail where it's made for horses)
Like I said earlier, the tone of my post isn't meant to come off as mad. I still don't understand. . .I see how it could be unsafe to stop in a public place, but then I question why they should be in a public place riding? (NOT on a dirt trail where it's made for horses)
I like this solution a lot. Most of the nice trails around here that are at all accessible to anyone besides experienced hikers don't specify. I would be happy if they would take a couple of the nice trails and restrict them from horses, as well as designate a couple as being horse specific. It'd be safer for the horse people too--no crazy dogs to deal with then.
That does work as long as you have enough trails.
Liz, no its not the same, as if you look at horse poop you can still SEE the grass lol (horses are crazy inefficient digesters.. that is why their poop is mostly just grass/hay.)
So basically you ARE saying you want to ban riders.
That is like saying if your dog ever scares wild life in anyway it shouldn't be allowed on trails. How are you going to do that? If I don't notice my horse pooping how can I clean it up?
If you want to ban riders.. well that is your right to your opinion. But there are trails now that are banning dogs.. so beware.
Liz, no its not the same, as if you look at horse poop you can still SEE the grass lol (horses are crazy inefficient digesters.. that is why their poop is mostly just grass/hay.)
So basically you ARE saying you want to ban riders.
That is like saying if your dog ever scares wild life in anyway it shouldn't be allowed on trails. How are you going to do that? If I don't notice my horse pooping how can I clean it up?
If you want to ban riders.. well that is your right to your opinion. But there are trails now that are banning dogs.. so beware.
How it works here, is that in exchange for the PRIVELEDGE of being able to ride their horses all over campus. students are expected to ride, then when they are done put the horses away and go around in a golf cart with a garbage bag/shovel and clean it all up
it works great for us. the students always clean up wherever they rode and in exchange they get to ride everywhere and enjoy their horses
I know this isn't possible everywhere obviously, but im just saying there are ways for the relationship to work
it works great for us. the students always clean up wherever they rode and in exchange they get to ride everywhere and enjoy their horses
I know this isn't possible everywhere obviously, but im just saying there are ways for the relationship to work