Some training vid's
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Very nice, did you say you have no titled the dog you're moving to suit work yet? I am always interested in how that effected the sleeve work (I think you know that after my mondio inquiry thread).
In the last video I notice the back tie is tight. I have always been taught a limp back line with pops, not constant pressure, helps the dog understand what you are asking more. Unless you're building the bark/bite and not building a hold/bark which then it's perfectly common. Am I off base with what you're trying to accomplish?
Edit: Scratch that I re-read your explanation and I see why you were using a tight line. Thanks
In the last video I notice the back tie is tight. I have always been taught a limp back line with pops, not constant pressure, helps the dog understand what you are asking more. Unless you're building the bark/bite and not building a hold/bark which then it's perfectly common. Am I off base with what you're trying to accomplish?
Edit: Scratch that I re-read your explanation and I see why you were using a tight line. Thanks
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Very nice, did you say you have no titled the dog you're moving to suit work yet? I am always interested in how that effected the sleeve work (I think you know that after my mondio inquiry thread).
In the last video I notice the back tie is tight. I have always been taught a limp back line with pops, not constant pressure, helps the dog understand what you are asking more. Unless you're building the bark/bite and not building a hold/bark which then it's perfectly common. Am I off base with what you're trying to accomplish?
Edit: Scratch that I re-read your explanation and I see why you were using a tight line. Thanks
In the last video I notice the back tie is tight. I have always been taught a limp back line with pops, not constant pressure, helps the dog understand what you are asking more. Unless you're building the bark/bite and not building a hold/bark which then it's perfectly common. Am I off base with what you're trying to accomplish?
Edit: Scratch that I re-read your explanation and I see why you were using a tight line. Thanks
I do train with other dogs though that are titled and we do some of both and they have no issues really. Some are better at one than others, but that's mostly in the dog, not what they were started on. They all get some foundation in both. Like I had mentioned in the previous thread, we don't a ring 3 dog that has never seen a sleeve and has only been on legs for years then send them on a long bite and hope he bites the sleeve
there is some work to make it clear for the dogs, and it can be. She's a bit high for what I like, but this is a dog that has been doing hold and barks for 5 years staring at my face. It's a lot easier to teach a young dog that just wants to pull and bite to target the right spot. I'm doing a little untraining with her focus while training this with her, but her technique is ok otherwise and has no trouble going back and forth.
The right side she generally bites better, when she adjusts, she moves in and stays on it longer, the left she tends to re-adjust her grip and move up towards the knee. But I have a plan for that, we'll see how it works in a few weeks.
My other dog bites both equally as well, but I want to title her in Schutzhund first before doing too many other things.
YOu're right about the tight line. It should be loose with a pop or two if needed, and preferably coming from the helper, not the handler. IN those vid's it's really her first work in quite some time. She had a couple months of nothing because of injury and before that, I had been doing all my own work, with no back tie and created a few issues, so I was just playing around with different things to see how they work.
Her good rhythic more serious bark, turned into hopping and teeth clattering with some half barks thrown in
I kept the tighter line just so she'd be a bit more correct. and I could give her a bit of success, but I can't stay there long. I don't want her to become dependent on it. I can't remember if that video was actually taken before the first or not, but if I posted the others, you'd see the pattern of in close with loose leash and the barking goes to crap. which is exactly what i don't want.I have some ideas of what I need to do from here and i'll see what is different in a few weeks
Here's a couple new ones we took last night. My cousin's son has come out with me the past few weeks and decided he might want to give this thing a try. He's very new to this and young, but willing so what the heck we let him put on the sleeve We keep things safe and controlled so no humans were hurt in the filming although I got a couple nice bruises from a few dogs last night. Thankfully that never made it to film. Anyway, back to the thread at hand
Basically where just working on letting him feel comfortable in front of the dog and what it feels like to have them on your arm.
The first one is just a hold and bark, the 2nd time he's ever done this.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ba-qKzJOCD0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
another one
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lF5C8mYHiOE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Then he wanted to practice some of the escape exercise, but he wasn't ready completely so we modified it a bit. He doesn't quite fully trust the dogs will bite where they are taught to target so we just had him be a slow moving target and hold the target still.
You can see the first one he doesn't really absorb to well But that's why everything is close and controlled.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KCX5tSK9y70" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This next one we told him to absorb the impact a bit and he did it very well.
For him being so new and my pants not fitting him worth a darn, he didn't do too badly. I hope over the next year he can really get his mechanics down well.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HK3oxg75jn4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
We keep things safe and controlled so no humans were hurt in the filming although I got a couple nice bruises from a few dogs last night. Thankfully that never made it to film. Anyway, back to the thread at handBasically where just working on letting him feel comfortable in front of the dog and what it feels like to have them on your arm.
The first one is just a hold and bark, the 2nd time he's ever done this.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ba-qKzJOCD0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
another one
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lF5C8mYHiOE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Then he wanted to practice some of the escape exercise, but he wasn't ready completely so we modified it a bit. He doesn't quite fully trust the dogs will bite where they are taught to target so we just had him be a slow moving target and hold the target still.
You can see the first one he doesn't really absorb to well
But that's why everything is close and controlled. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KCX5tSK9y70" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This next one we told him to absorb the impact a bit and he did it very well.
For him being so new and my pants not fitting him worth a darn, he didn't do too badly. I hope over the next year he can really get his mechanics down well.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HK3oxg75jn4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
some new ones
Took a few short clips again with the cell phone. The first is of Yoli, just some short heeling and trying to keep her butt in. Usually we do this with a big bright Jolly ball out in the field, but she destroyed that. You an see the pillow reward doesn't stand out as much, then she gets her foot caught in one of the handles as she's trying to run
Other than that, you can see a couple of the beginning/early middle stages of teaching a blind search, or at least one of the ways. I'd prefer to have more helpers to do it, but it's just me, so I do what I can. You can see she has a bit of confusion in being called from one blind and being sent directly to another. If I call her and bring her to a front and then send her again it's nice, but that's expected since that is what we've been working on so we've got a few more things to work on as you can see.
and then a short Hold/Bark in the blind for a pillow and she almost targets my hand, wasn't terribly close, but usually she's dead center in targeting so when I felt the right side of the pillow collapse I got a bit nervous for a second.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RU3RpFDVXpE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This next one is just a short send for the pillow to finish the day off. I have a few others of my other dog I'll try and get on here a little later.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EUzAcH9Bxeg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Took a few short clips again with the cell phone. The first is of Yoli, just some short heeling and trying to keep her butt in. Usually we do this with a big bright Jolly ball out in the field, but she destroyed that. You an see the pillow reward doesn't stand out as much, then she gets her foot caught in one of the handles as she's trying to run
Other than that, you can see a couple of the beginning/early middle stages of teaching a blind search, or at least one of the ways. I'd prefer to have more helpers to do it, but it's just me, so I do what I can. You can see she has a bit of confusion in being called from one blind and being sent directly to another. If I call her and bring her to a front and then send her again it's nice, but that's expected since that is what we've been working on
so we've got a few more things to work on as you can see.and then a short Hold/Bark in the blind for a pillow and she almost targets my hand, wasn't terribly close, but usually she's dead center in targeting so when I felt the right side of the pillow collapse I got a bit nervous for a second.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RU3RpFDVXpE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This next one is just a short send for the pillow to finish the day off. I have a few others of my other dog I'll try and get on here a little later.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EUzAcH9Bxeg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
And here's Zoe
This is of my other dog Zoe. Kind of doing the same stuff. You can see the same issue with running blinds. It's like they get past me and realize, "well ****, he's got the good stuff, do I really have to run all the way over here" and they check back but they'll get it.
The rest is just intermediate stuff teaching the blinds and recall I don't end up with a dog just running around out there. She has a bit of an issue with anticipation and always wanting to "go". I guess I should say, I have the issue, but we're working on it.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FTRqLFJ2zjg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Here's one that for some reason, iMovie wouldn't let me put in with the rest so I uploaded it to youtube seperately. In this one you can see the anticipation and she's released only on voice command, not body movement, which is the dogs natural tendency. My movements can "cue" a command that's coming, but i can't have them doing anything till the voice command is given. But she's coming along.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/69jSon-ENIU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I hope somebody finds something interesting in here in looking at something other than finished product videos, because I don't train my dogs enough to have a "finished product" One day we'll trial, but not this year.
This is of my other dog Zoe. Kind of doing the same stuff. You can see the same issue with running blinds. It's like they get past me and realize, "well ****, he's got the good stuff, do I really have to run all the way over here" and they check back
but they'll get it.The rest is just intermediate stuff teaching the blinds and recall I don't end up with a dog just running around out there. She has a bit of an issue with anticipation and always wanting to "go". I guess I should say, I have the issue, but we're working on it.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FTRqLFJ2zjg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Here's one that for some reason, iMovie wouldn't let me put in with the rest so I uploaded it to youtube seperately. In this one you can see the anticipation and she's released only on voice command, not body movement, which is the dogs natural tendency. My movements can "cue" a command that's coming, but i can't have them doing anything till the voice command is given. But she's coming along.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/69jSon-ENIU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I hope somebody finds something interesting in here in looking at something other than finished product videos, because I don't train my dogs enough to have a "finished product"
One day we'll trial, but not this year.Since there doesn't seem to be much interest in training vids, I just took a couple of Yoli playing with my friends Rhodesian over the weekend. You can see in the first video, he's just a little ****
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sCAU2HFPjuE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This one is from this weekend and he's a bit bigger 10 months later. I put some generic music via youtube over it to cover up my friend and wife talking. I think they'd be embarassed if what they said was online
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/b1s0JArhpYE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sCAU2HFPjuE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This one is from this weekend and he's a bit bigger 10 months later. I put some generic music via youtube over it to cover up my friend and wife talking. I think they'd be embarassed if what they said was online
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/b1s0JArhpYE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Ok I didn't watch the playing videos, I watched the training videos. The first Yoli one did not load, though.
Since we're re-teaching a blind search right now, to a dog that is not tight enough to compete well, I found this interesting.
This is how we taught blinds in the past, semi-obedience. I like it much better than the "shell game".
The first Yoli one did not load, though.Since we're re-teaching a blind search right now, to a dog that is not tight enough to compete well, I found this interesting.
This is how we taught blinds in the past, semi-obedience. I like it much better than the "shell game".
Ok I didn't watch the playing videos, I watched the training videos. The first Yoli one did not load, though.
Since we're re-teaching a blind search right now, to a dog that is not tight enough to compete well, I found this interesting.
This is how we taught blinds in the past, semi-obedience. I like it much better than the "shell game".
The first Yoli one did not load, though.Since we're re-teaching a blind search right now, to a dog that is not tight enough to compete well, I found this interesting.
This is how we taught blinds in the past, semi-obedience. I like it much better than the "shell game".
I tried that video again and it seems to be working for me
I like to do a combo of the two methods. One is OB for the ball or tug and also use multiple helpers, but i'm limited in helpers at the moment
When I put it together hopefully the blinds are already tight and when you start moving helpers around it keeps them looking in all of them. So then it's just run look, if someone is there, bark and hold, if not return to me for reward. Then return to me and get sent to another. Seems to work well when I have everyone available. Now that I have them both barking well in the blind, I have a couple people I can just put in there with a pillow, but I have to get the transitions between blinds better at this point.
I think her heeling is crap. it's a good reason why the heeling part isn't longer Butt is out all the time. I've tried a few different things, nothing seems to make any long term fix. Lately i've been toy on the ground, get your butt in, take a few steps, fix the butt, take a few more and when it's right, release for reward.
It's not quite where I can tell her to "get in" while moving. I'm hoping that by removing all reward from me, she'll be able to think her way thru it one of these days. I know if the reward is on me, she's so focused I can manipulate her anyway I want, but when the focus is so intense on that, she doesn't think or learn much that way so i'm getting it further away
it's a good reason why the heeling part isn't longer Butt is out all the time. I've tried a few different things, nothing seems to make any long term fix. Lately i've been toy on the ground, get your butt in, take a few steps, fix the butt, take a few more and when it's right, release for reward. It's not quite where I can tell her to "get in" while moving. I'm hoping that by removing all reward from me, she'll be able to think her way thru it one of these days. I know if the reward is on me, she's so focused I can manipulate her anyway I want, but when the focus is so intense on that, she doesn't think or learn much that way so i'm getting it further away
I start all my dogs finding the leg with food. Then usually can hold the food in my left out away from their head and maintain focus on me, then start moving a step or two and rewarding, then switch to toys, reward from anywhere and life is good
With her it was a bit different. Did the finding the leg with food and was fine. I got her at age 3 and was only in a kennel, didn't have anything else really and it took 3 weeks just to get her to learn to come take food from my hand. But she learned the leg rather quickly, but any movement just put her into overdrive and could maintain nothing that could be called healing, so I ended up doing more of a food lure to give her the idea of walking at my side. That seemed to work then moved back to finding the leg with small steps.
At some point I created her butt out thing, front shoulder to knee was ok, but the butt would go out. Did ladders to teach foot awareness because she had none. Taught her place markers on a tub, and then did some perch work and she can move her butt in now, she knows "get in", but from a stationary or pivoting position, I just haven't been able to get it to transition to getting her to move it back in while moving forward.
I think I created this whole mess by holding the ball in my right hand, though I was tossing it behind my back and to my left to reward. Instead of her breaking out to the left to get it, she would step away (create space between us) then turn into me (right) then run off behind and to my left to get her reward, so she was like spinning in a circle. I;\'m pretty sure this created her butt out heeling. I'd keep rewarding because he head and front shoulder position looked good, but because I wasn't using a mirror or spotter, didn't notice the butt creeping out unless I turned my shoulders and looked back, which of course would "fix" it because of my body position.
I could fix it easy enough by just holding the ball in my left hand, but when it wasn't there, things went right back to what they were. So I tried rewarding from a static position, mark, but get her attention to go forward left, then chase the ball back and left when I threw it. Like an arching motion and movement from her. I swear I was going to lose fingers marking and then trying to get her to chase my hand and ball so she'd go after her reward in a way that would help fix her hind end in heeling.
Does that make sense? Much easier for me to demonstrate than try and describe. and that worked ok, but lots and lots of reps, it didn't ever seem to carry over from one session to the next. After we did it a bit, it got much better, but by the next session it was like starting from scratch again.
One day I noticed that heeling for bites from someone else, she was much better. So i decided to just drop a reward and let her see me do it, then go heel. Coupled with short heeling and making her get her butt in all the time and doing some left pivots, i'm hoping this will stick. Seems to be getting better, more so than the other things i've tried. SHe seems to be able to think thru things a bit better when she "knows" there's a reward that's not on me. Once I can get the "get in" to mean something when we're moving I think i'll be able to get past this quickly
Would have been much easier had I not created this in the first place, but that's dog training sometimes
With her it was a bit different. Did the finding the leg with food and was fine. I got her at age 3 and was only in a kennel, didn't have anything else really and it took 3 weeks just to get her to learn to come take food from my hand. But she learned the leg rather quickly, but any movement just put her into overdrive and could maintain nothing that could be called healing, so I ended up doing more of a food lure to give her the idea of walking at my side. That seemed to work then moved back to finding the leg with small steps.
At some point I created her butt out thing, front shoulder to knee was ok, but the butt would go out. Did ladders to teach foot awareness because she had none. Taught her place markers on a tub, and then did some perch work and she can move her butt in now, she knows "get in", but from a stationary or pivoting position, I just haven't been able to get it to transition to getting her to move it back in while moving forward.
I think I created this whole mess by holding the ball in my right hand, though I was tossing it behind my back and to my left to reward. Instead of her breaking out to the left to get it, she would step away (create space between us) then turn into me (right) then run off behind and to my left to get her reward, so she was like spinning in a circle. I;\'m pretty sure this created her butt out heeling. I'd keep rewarding because he head and front shoulder position looked good, but because I wasn't using a mirror or spotter, didn't notice the butt creeping out unless I turned my shoulders and looked back, which of course would "fix" it because of my body position.
I could fix it easy enough by just holding the ball in my left hand, but when it wasn't there, things went right back to what they were. So I tried rewarding from a static position, mark, but get her attention to go forward left, then chase the ball back and left when I threw it. Like an arching motion and movement from her. I swear I was going to lose fingers marking and then trying to get her to chase my hand and ball so she'd go after her reward in a way that would help fix her hind end in heeling.
Does that make sense? Much easier for me to demonstrate than try and describe. and that worked ok, but lots and lots of reps, it didn't ever seem to carry over from one session to the next. After we did it a bit, it got much better, but by the next session it was like starting from scratch again.
One day I noticed that heeling for bites from someone else, she was much better. So i decided to just drop a reward and let her see me do it, then go heel. Coupled with short heeling and making her get her butt in all the time and doing some left pivots, i'm hoping this will stick. Seems to be getting better, more so than the other things i've tried. SHe seems to be able to think thru things a bit better when she "knows" there's a reward that's not on me. Once I can get the "get in" to mean something when we're moving I think i'll be able to get past this quickly
Would have been much easier had I not created this in the first place, but that's dog training sometimes
I watched the training videos, but I'm not experienced enough to give any feedback lol. Your dogs look like they are fun to train with.
Ack, periennially working on Scout's butt not popping out. We've been doing a lot of perchwork, which has helped a lot. Lately I've also been doing positions on the perch next to the wall in my kitchen so she has no choice but to be straight.
And I don't want to talk about our ongoing work on the crooked fronts. They are much better, buuuut not at all perfect. I did finally figure out what was causing it with Lily though... not caring where she sat before we go out the front door. So now she has to front and wait for my okay before we go out the door. Even if we've gotta try a few times.
Ack, periennially working on Scout's butt not popping out. We've been doing a lot of perchwork, which has helped a lot. Lately I've also been doing positions on the perch next to the wall in my kitchen so she has no choice but to be straight.
And I don't want to talk about our ongoing work on the crooked fronts. They are much better, buuuut not at all perfect. I did finally figure out what was causing it with Lily though... not caring where she sat before we go out the front door. So now she has to front and wait for my okay before we go out the door. Even if we've gotta try a few times.