Ron Paul

Have you heard of Ron Paul, a Republican Presidential Candidate?

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    Votes: 40 93.0%
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*not trying to pick on you in any way Gypsy*

Without knowing the story of which you speak and all the facts/evidence........I just find it hard to believe that it was just wrong place wrong time.

The people who get the death sentence wait an incredibly long time before it's carried out (years and years most cases).........have appeals, and opportunities to present new evidence. They normally have supporters (EVEN the WORST offenders) on the outside doing what they can as well. And especially with todays technology of DNA and all types of evidence, I just can't believe it.

..........innocent of THAT crime maybe, but not innocent in general if you understand what I am saying.

Now perhaps I live in a fairy world IDK

Side note: BRING BACK CHAIN GANGS IN ALL 50 STATES! Tire them out, less guards, get them used to working all day instead of relaxing!
Coop, you'd be amazed at how truly ineffective a lot of those supposed safeguards are - and how much evidence is tampered with, "lost," mishandled and downright manufactured. Add in public opinion and media coverage . . . until DNA became a more reliable tool it was laughable in most cases, and even now there is all sorts of resistance to revisiting cases using DNA technology that's now available.

It doesn't reflect well on certain segments of the legal system when it's made clear that we lock up the innocent as often as we do - and no one really likes to have to face how many we've executed for crimes they didn't commit.
 

Oski

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Ditto. Its not that some people don't deserve to die for their crimes. Some definately do. Its that the death penalty system is dangerously corrupt, unfair, expensive, and inefficent.

We'd be better off locking them up for life . . . and then if we made a mistake, and they turn out to be innocent, its a mistake we can correct. The cost of the system is outrageous . . . and the application of the death penalty often arbitrary.

Sure, there are people that I would love to see dragged out into the street and shot for what they have done. Heck, there are a few people for whom burning at the stake would be too good.

But the social cost of the death penalty is just too high, and the system to damaged to be salvaged. Time to join the rest of the civilized world and get rid of the bloody thng.[/QUO

and the cost of housing inmates isn't high?????
 

Oski

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Coop, you'd be amazed at how truly ineffective a lot of those supposed safeguards are - and how much evidence is tampered with, "lost," mishandled and downright manufactured. Add in public opinion and media coverage . . . until DNA became a more reliable tool it was laughable in most cases, and even now there is all sorts of resistance to revisiting cases using DNA technology that's now available.

It doesn't reflect well on certain segments of the legal system when it's made clear that we lock up the innocent as often as we do - and no one really likes to have to face how many we've executed for crimes they didn't commit.
Its not that there is resistance, its that we dont' have enough DNA analysts and labs to catch up on all the work.
 
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No, there really is resistance, Oski . . . I've skimmed over some of the briefs filed arguing against it. The side of the prosecution is all for using it to put people behind bars, but they aren't all that enthused about using it to expose the mistakes that have been made . . .
 

Lilavati

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Ditto. Its not that some people don't deserve to die for their crimes. Some definately do. Its that the death penalty system is dangerously corrupt, unfair, expensive, and inefficent.

We'd be better off locking them up for life . . . and then if we made a mistake, and they turn out to be innocent, its a mistake we can correct. The cost of the system is outrageous . . . and the application of the death penalty often arbitrary.

Sure, there are people that I would love to see dragged out into the street and shot for what they have done. Heck, there are a few people for whom burning at the stake would be too good.

But the social cost of the death penalty is just too high, and the system to damaged to be salvaged. Time to join the rest of the civilized world and get rid of the bloody thng.[/QUO

and the cost of housing inmates isn't high?????
Oh, the cost of housing inmates is high. But if you look at the numbers, it actually costs significantly more to execute someone . . .

Of course, you could make it cheaper, by taking away their appeals . . . but then, considering the number that have recently been exonerated, that would lead to executing innocent people, wouldn't it? Some of those recently exonerated where innocent of any crime . . . and sure, some of them were guilty of commiting crimes . . . but not of commiting murder.

So, if you have the safeties in place that attempt to make sure we don't execute the innocent, it costs more to execute anyone than to keep them locked up for life . . . if you take away those safeties, you are almost sure to execute someone who did not commit the crime for which they were sentenced to death . . .

And as for the arguement that they are surely guilty of something, so why not execute them . . . one, there are cases where that is not true, and two, that's the sort of logic we saw in the Soviet Union and numerous other totalitarian governments . . . oh, well, they were guilty of something, weren't they? Too bad!
 

Oski

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No, there really is resistance, Oski . . . I've skimmed over some of the briefs filed arguing against it. The side of the prosecution is all for using it to put people behind bars, but they aren't all that enthused about using it to expose the mistakes that have been made . . .
Do you happen to have links to any of the briefs? I would be interested in reading some of them if you do....as I am majoring in Forensic Science...so I love that kind of stuff and I have not heard about that in any of my classes.
 

MelissaCato

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Ron Paul's campaign sent an email affirming his support for pet food safety. (Regarding the pet food recall of 2007.)

http://itchmoforums.com/offtopic-po...-of-awareness-of-pet-food-recall-t2055.0.html
Very Good Link.

Fifth Amendment : No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Fourteenth Amendment : Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws
Kinda throws BSL out the door to. Vote Ron Paul.
 
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Glad you liked the Ron Paul thread, MelissaCato. I enjoyed the Marine video, too. Goes perfect with General Smedley Butler.

I hadn't heard much about the CFR until the Ron Paulers started posting about the organization. If they are running things, they've sure got the banking system screwed up royally! This is from their own web site.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/1510...readcrumb=/publication/by_type/daily_analysis

Here's a Bill Gross, (big in bonds - Alan Greenspan works with him now), piece about the mess. He even defines the 'shadow banking system.'

http://www.pimco.com/LeftNav/Featured+Market+Commentary/IO/2008/IO+January+2008.htm

I just found the Marc Faber podcast yesterday. I don't understand all of it, but like his thoughts when I do. He mentions Ron Paul several times and has a lot of respect for him.

http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2008/Faber.html
 
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That video is really something. They are way out of control. This is an article about the mayor of New York City, Michael Bloomberg. He is talking about running as an independent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/nyregion/19about.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&oref=slogin

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20080118_LEVINE.pdf

Very heavy handed. He is a multi-billionaire so is used to getting his way. Some people like him as mayor and he does sound a lot better that Rudy Guilianni was, but I don't like his ideas about DNA collection.
 

MelissaCato

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Michael Bloomberg is no different than the other CRF mates. In my opinion he doesn't have a chance for President due to his lack of support for the US Constitution. We absolutely need a Constitutionalist for President 2008. It's a must. It's clear in his press releases he's for bigger government and wants to expand the Income Tax Credits for those who have numerous children. He wants to enlarge the Governments Food Supplies to cities, schools and hospitals. Everyone in Medicine wether it be human or animal knows the government surplus is crippling and killing life. I dunno, maybe his money will win him 2008 President.
Actually, it all boils down to the extent of knowledge and history American's know thus far in regards to the direction this country is going. Unfortunately, 2008 Election is what will break our founding fathers backbone of Freedom.
Sad but true.
Really it's all nothing more than a rat race of just who will abolish silently the US Constitution and replace it with democracy. Exactly what our founding fathers warned us about.
Everyone now adays thinks America is a democracy ... that is a hoax and a lie to fit the "adjendas" of the powers in Office, and the media backs them up in that lie.
America in fact is a Constitutional Republic as signed, "if we can keep it" our founders warned and worded the Constitution with "we the people" as the defenders of this Republic... 2008 Election has to be a Constitutionalist or we did loose "it". Welcome to American history in the making.
 

MelissaCato

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A Song 4 U America

Major General Butler claimed that the American Liberty League was the primary means of funding the plot. The main backers were the Du Pont family, as well as leaders of U.S. Steel, General Motors, Standard Oil, Chase National Bank, and Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company. A BBC documentary about the plot alleges that Prescott Bush, father and grandfather to the 41st and 43rd US Presidents respectively, was also connected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
......before the McCormack-Dickstein Committee in 1934
.....but no prosecutions or further investigations followed, and the matter was mostly forgotten.

Your Song : http://www.liveleak.com/player.swf?autostart=false&token=9a5_1201244919
 

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