Question about GSD's.

[Rhino]

I know nothing about GSD's, but have had a few questions which I've felt silly asking, but am going to pipe up now.

Is the slope of the hind end supposed to be so exagerated, or is this becoming a flaw in the breed from poor breeding? I know there is supposed to be drop of croup area, but it seems they get closer and closer to the ground to the point where some dogs look like they're walking on on their hawks.

Since I know nothing about the breed or anyone who does, I thought I'd ask here. I hope someone can clear this up because I've always been curious about.

 

[pitbulliest]

Yeah I've seen that too. I find it kinda weird. It doesn't look very healthy; almost like they have hip dysplasia... maybe its bad breeding?

 

[AmberwayGSD]

It is actually the way the handler stacks them for show ring.If you see free standing pics they look alot better.Its just the way us humans make them stand that makes them look funny.

 

[bubbatd]

I like the natural stance, personally. Same with some show horses...some of the stretch is too artificial .

 

[Jynx]

I've had gsd's for all my life, and now have aussies as well..The slope you are referring to is angulation..There are different varieties of GSD's,,american showlines, west or east german working lines, west show lines, czech lined dogs..etc..

The american showline gsd, tends to have more rear angulation than others.
If you've ever gone to a gsd specialty, you'll see alot of gsd's with more rear angulation , some extreme.

I' personally don't like extreme rear angulation in any dog, it is not a sign of poor breeding, in fact dogs with the extreme angulation could have better hips than a dog who is "square" (no rear angulation)> GSD"s need "some" angulation in order to propell forward, however extreme is not my cup of tea.

GSD Gurl has a point as well, in some pics, show pics mostly, you' may see a GSD stacked to look like he has alot of 'rear' when in fact he really doesn't.

Alot of facets to the GSD breed, some good some bad..but rear angulation is not in itself a sign of poor breeding.
hope this helps
Diane

 

[tessa_s212]

Ick. I hate it. It just does not look natural.

I'd like to see a pic of an american show line GSD stacking with all four legs square.

 

[yuckaduck]

Yukon has it slightly and Hope has almost straight back. Both have xrayed excellent hips and I much prefer their look then that extreme angulation. Ick!

Yukon free stacking

Hope free stacking

 

[GSDMom]

some do breed for extreme angulations,
I prefer a well balanced dog.

 

[Rhino]

Yukon has it slightly and Hope has almost straight back. Both have xrayed excellent hips and I much prefer their look then that extreme angulation. Ick!

Yukon free stacking

Hope free stacking

I agree, I like the look of your dogs!!

I honestly don't know enough about the breed to say whether or not it's healthy (extreme "angulation"), but it just not appeal to me at all.

Thanx everyone for the replies, I appreciate it.

 

[Rhino]

Just another question...

They are herding/shephard dogs, right? What about that type of conformation is beneficial or helpful to them doing their job? Or is this something that has evolved predominantly in the show ring?

The only reason I ask, is that other breeds who do similar things don't show that type of conformation.

 

[yuckaduck]

Thank you!

Mine are both from German Working Lines.

 

[GSDMom]

my dogs are American Show Line, very well balanced and have OVC or OFA certified hip & elbows - having a steeper croup does NOT make a dog dysplastic

I LOVE MY DOGS just the way they are

 

[tessa_s212]

*cringes*

Can your dogs excell in anything else besides conformation?

 

[tessa_s212]

Just another question...

They are herding/shephard dogs, right? What about that type of conformation is beneficial or helpful to them doing their job? Or is this something that has evolved predominantly in the show ring?

The only reason I ask, is that other breeds who do similar things don't show that type of conformation.

Nope. Just something that the conformation people did.

 

[GSDMom]

*cringes*

Can your dogs excell in anything else besides conformation?

of course they can, they are NOT cripples
if you could see them in my yard you would say they look pretty square
we do obedience training, tracking is something we plan to try this spring

and by the was it's Shepherd not Shephard - just a pet peeve of mine

 

[Rhino]

my dogs are American Show Line, very well balanced and have OVC or OFA certified hip & elbows - having a steeper croup does NOT make a dog dysplastic

This looks so uncomfortable to me. It looks like the dog is standing on its hawks. Do they every suffer from any sort of knee/ligament conditions? I can't imagine being at that angle and not having some sort of a health problem.

 

[Julie]

This is Rocket side view. I know nothing about show German Shepherds.
I don't even know if she is "well" bred. But she is excellent at working the streets, and that is all that matters to us. She is supposedly from German Working Lines, but we never saw her pedigree and haven't sent her Akc papers in yet. And if I send them in now I will pay extra for waiting. lol
I am going to send them in but no hurry now, cause I will pay the extra anyway.

And here is a front view.

I really didn't know what stacked was before a couple months ago.
Anybody want to critique this dog, it would be fun and it doesn't really matter
too much to me because she has already proved herself as a "working k9 partner". I love her and she has the best personality for a dog of her training.
Thanks.
Julie.

 

[panzer426]

the angulation does not cause them to be dysplastic, however there is a far higher incidence of dysplasia in american showline gsd's. some say it the angulation is dangerous to their health, others say it isnt. I personally think it depends on the severity and then only in the dogs so deeply bred for the trait that it is almost permanent. and the term is "hocks", hawks are birds of prey related to eagles and falcons.
american bloodline gsd's "can" do work they were bred for, however this is far less common. even the german showlines are less inclined at herding, schutzhund, agility etc. the main reason for this is that the working bloodlines typically have higher working drive. that is to say that the working dogs are typically more inclined to want to work, and to want to work much harder.
the angulation is of great debate, often (though hopefully not here and now) very heated debate among gsd enthusiasts. those of us who prefer the more puristic, old time, original type prefer european lines (even the european show lines have far reduced angulation). others prefer the extreme angulation.
also the european bloodlines have larger bone structure and thicker, more pronounced muscle structure. typically larger heads and straighter backs.
american bloodline gsd's typically are not as extremely angulated as you usually see in photos or show stances. they are more angulated typically than working line or european showline gsd's, but the extreme angulation is in a show stance, called a stack, which you see in the show ring.
here you can see photos of Horand, the first registered german shepherd... http://gsdca.org/GSDReviewed/hdogs/HorandGrafrath.html born in 1895.
here are german showline gsd photos... http://www.justshepherds.com/wgshow.htm
west and east german working lines... http://www.justshepherds.com/working.htm
various types including the Czech lines... http://www.justshepherds.com/othergsds.htm
and north american lines... http://www.justshepherds.com/nalines.htm

Julie...any more photos of your gsd? from the 2 you posted I cant say anything remotely bad about her except that in the top photo it looks like she might be slightly cow hocked (though that could be the angle of the camera or the fact that she appears to be in the process of turning around) and in the 2nd photo it appears that her tail hangs straight down (also could be camera angle or other trick of the photo) but appears to be of correct length. she looks very nice to me. and by the way, dont take those possible comments as rude...it looks like it is merely a photo illusion.
she looks like german working lines and german showlines to me.

oh yeah...I forgot, the show stance is no more uncomfortable to them than high heels are to women. sure they are not comfortable but consider that the american show gsd's are in that stance for maybe a total of 20 minutes during a show and not all at once. women wear high heels for a lot longer than that and a lot more often.
kind of suprised myself here by defending the american showlines, I very much prefer the european lines. but thats just me.

 

[rottiegirl]

I like angulation in a GSD, but I do not like it when breeders take it to the extreme. I havent heard of any problems with rear angulation, but I have heard about problems with GSDs having roach back due to bad breeding.

 

[Julie]

the angulation does not cause them to be dysplastic, however there is a far higher incidence of dysplasia in american showline gsd's. some say it the angulation is dangerous to their health, others say it isnt. I personally think it depends on the severity and then only in the dogs so deeply bred for the trait that it is almost permanent. and the term is "hocks", hawks are birds of prey related to eagles and falcons.
american bloodline gsd's "can" do work they were bred for, however this is far less common. even the german showlines are less inclined at herding, schutzhund, agility etc. the main reason for this is that the working bloodlines typically have higher working drive. that is to say that the working dogs are typically more inclined to want to work, and to want to work much harder.
the angulation is of great debate, often (though hopefully not here and now) very heated debate among gsd enthusiasts. those of us who prefer the more puristic, old time, original type prefer european lines (even the european show lines have far reduced angulation). others prefer the extreme angulation.
also the european bloodlines have larger bone structure and thicker, more pronounced muscle structure. typically larger heads and straighter backs.
american bloodline gsd's typically are not as extremely angulated as you usually see in photos or show stances. they are more angulated typically than working line or european showline gsd's, but the extreme angulation is in a show stance, called a stack, which you see in the show ring.
here you can see photos of Horand, the first registered german shepherd... http://gsdca.org/GSDReviewed/hdogs/HorandGrafrath.html born in 1895.
here are german showline gsd photos... http://www.justshepherds.com/wgshow.htm
west and east german working lines... http://www.justshepherds.com/working.htm
various types including the Czech lines... http://www.justshepherds.com/othergsds.htm
and north american lines... http://www.justshepherds.com/nalines.htm

Julie...any more photos of your gsd? from the 2 you posted I cant say anything remotely bad about her except that in the top photo it looks like she might be slightly cow hocked (though that could be the angle of the camera or the fact that she appears to be in the process of turning around) and in the 2nd photo it appears that her tail hangs straight down (also could be camera angle or other trick of the photo) but appears to be of correct length. she looks very nice to me. and by the way, dont take those possible comments as rude...it looks like it is merely a photo illusion.
she looks like german working lines and german showlines to me.

Yes I have more, I am always looking for info. and I won't take any comments as rude cause like I said, if she is not satisfactory in looks, she makes up for it in the field lol and since that is all that is important to me at this point, well that is really all that matters to me. It is just interesting for me to see what others think.
I am going to post some more now on this thread, just give me a minute.