Border Collies - Tell me everything

~Tucker&Me~

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#21
I agree with most everything that's been said :D.

They are a lot of fun but DEFINATELY not for everyone.

IMO, the only way to get a rela feel for the breed is to actually hang out with some BC's. Ya, you can read until your head aches but at the end of the day you can't really understand until you've hung out with one.

My suggestion would be to contact a BC rescue and apply to foster one of two :).

That way you'll have a much better idea of what you are getting into ;).

~Tucker
 

mrose_s

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#22
I was actually considering that, getting a foster pup and if it does turn out to work I can adopt, if not, then rehoming is still an option.

I definetly want a high energy dog, but I know they are difernt from kelpies. Kelpies definelty have an off switch. Buster is amazingly laid back, he has a lot of good working breed traits like his size, shape, drive (sometimes) speed and agility but he doesn't have huge energy demands (he does best with lots of excercise but doesn't need need need it)

I was actually hoping by the time I get my next dog hopefully I'll have a job I can take it to work with me, ideally i could ride a bike to work and take my dog with me. Then ride home, then take it out for a walk with Buster. Or to the beach or soemthing.

I've also been looking into breeders and found one that is breeding for performance sports. If all health testing etc is done do you think this is a reputable breeder? As a lot of the reason I'm considerng a BC is to compete in a lot of dog sports.

I also have no issues with shedding, Buster sheds like mad, he has a very thick coat eventhough its not higley long and I generally brush him out once a day as is.

basically, low energy or low drive dogs frustrate me. I would annoy them with constatnt "cummon! lets do this and this and this"
I'm actually surprised Buster puts up with me.
 

~Tucker&Me~

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#23
Mrose, I would avoid a breeder breeding purely for Performance Sports.

The BC was ALWAYS bred for working ability, which is why you see BC's of all shapes/sizes/colours. When you get breeders breeding for only sports, it takes away from the breed as a whole.

~Tucker
 

Boemy

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#24
I agree, if you're looking for a breeder rather than rescue, I would go for a breeder of working (herding) dogs. But don't discount animal shelters, there are usually at least a few border collies there! :)

My dog did have an "off switch" and lazy times, but then again she was part lab. She also shed like crazy all year round, and shed even more than normal in the summer.

Also, if her coat got wet it the outer part would dry quickly and the fuzzy undercoat would take HOURS to dry. So she hated getting wet. I'm not sure if that's a border collie trait or if she had a third breed in her lineage. I'm sure labs would be more "waterproof" than that.
 

mrose_s

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#25
I'm probably going to go with a rescue, I'd like one thats close to pure and I'd like one from a puppy. There are a lot of kelpie/Bc mixes which I'm fine with but the only problem is that the black/tan colouring could come form a rotti just as much as a kelpie and those would create 2 very different dogs.

there are always a few BC rescue around and I can get in contact with them when I'm ready
 

Whisper

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#26
I agree- I would go to a working breeder who does herding rather than a performance breeder.
Often times well bred working bred BCs do have a good off switch.

I think it's awesome you're considering rescue. :)
 

Paige

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#27
There are so many wonderful BC's in rescues simply because they were paired with the wrong human. I'd start there and if you don't find what you are looking for then get in touch with a breeder. But it doesn't hurt to look up breeders before hand.

Border Collies can have an off switch. It just so happens one of mine doesn't.
 

irenafarm

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#28
Agreed that you can probably find what you want from a rescue organization. I imagine you are already looking into it, but for any lurkers - there are some incredible dogs in rescue. I'm not a bit prejudiced, being a rescuer myself, lol!

This dog, for instance, is currently looking for a home. How can you resist this face?




Most of the dogs I get here are only appropriate for working homes, but that's not the norm for rescue. 90%, probably, of rescue Border Collies go to suburban/urban homes. There is such a wide variety within the breed that rescues main job is matching a wide range of wonderful dogs with just the right home for them.

How about a photojournal on the topic of Border Collies?

Here's what they were bred to do:



(the red arrow is pointing to the dog - the guy in the foreground is whistling commands to her - he's not allowed to leave that white post - he's got to get the sheep through the white gates to the left side - Peg, the dog, is my Ted's mother)

 

irenafarm

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#29
More on what makes a BC a BC:

From way out in the field, the sheep are brought to the handler and penned in a small enclosure. The handler is not allowed to let go of the rope that is attached to the pen gate. He and his dog have to convince the sheep to go in without touching them.



The last exercise in the BC course. The handler stands in a ring with the sheep and the dog keeps the sheep there while the handler sorts off a specified number of sheep. Neither the handler nor the dog can touch the sheep and if the sheep leave the ring before the sort is done, they have to be re-gathered and it starts over.



A course the size of Edgeworth involves about twenty minutes of running and cantering and walking in a crouched position (oddly, almost never trotting as you'd see in the breed ring, which is supposedly the gold standard of athletic conformation). The dog must be incredibly in tune with the sheep, ready at a second's notice to anticipate and prevent any attempts to break off. This part is what the dog does naturally - we are not smart enough to be able to predict what a sheep will do like a predator can. Besides, look at how far that is - how can you see an ear twitch at that distance? BUT, the dog also has to be willing to take commands that don't make sense - a person may know ahead of time that bringing the sheep on the upper side of a rise rather than the lower, will prevent all kinds of problems. And something like splitting sheep up doesn't make any sense at all to a dog - he's been taught from a pup not to do that and now we're doing it on purpose! So the ideal dog also needs to trust people and be open to suggestions and naturally seeking to please.

Balance is the number one thing that is critical to a dog that works stock. The dog needs to have a ton of prey drive, but also has the ability to learn to control his impulses. This results in the kind of dog that can walk with the shepherd, relaxed, not bothering the animals he's passing - but able to spring into action and perform tasks as needed, as efficiently and gently as possible. Such dogs need tremendous work ethic and persistence to keep going when the job is incredibly difficult, but also the patience to wait when there's nothing to do. It's true that a BC left to its own devices will find a job to do, but a BC that knows his place in your household and has a routine, will have an "off" switch. I've had zillions of very high drive dogs come through here and have never failed to find and help the dogs use, their off switch.

Cesar Milan makes a big deal of walking his dogs off leash. It's an every day thing for a BC that's been raised right. A well bred, correctly raised dog (or trained) will think you are the most wonderful thing in the world and will have no reason to go anywhere. This picture is of a walk in an unfenced area, with a road, that went on for about three miles. We were just walking and talking, no one ever asked their dogs to stick around, they just did.



 

irenafarm

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#30
The fact that we breed for a standard of performance ability, and not how the dog looks, means that there's lots and lot of variety in the breed. But there's a startling consistency in their behavior, temperament, and physical soundness - at least there was while they were being bred almost strictly for working livestock.

These are all Border Collies, purebred (well, there's one 1/8 Beardie), mostly well bred trial winners or direct offspring (there's some pups in there):



What are they like to live with?

Well, there's The Stare. You'll find your dog attempting to burn holes in your head if he thinks you have veered off his perception of the household routine. BCs crave routine most of all. If you can provide a predictable pattern to life, it almost doesn't matter what you do, within reason. I knew a guy who did nothing with his very well bred working BC for years and years, other than to teach him to fetch beer from the fridge, money by denomination, and other interesting tricks. But he was a bachelor who worked a light schedule, did the same thing every day, and his life essentially revolved around his dog and his friends, who were chosen based on whether they'd let him hang out with his dog.

It is Time, dear friend.



Time to Play Ball.



Time to Eat Dinner.

 

irenafarm

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#31
Life with a BC is all about finding interesting things to do with your dog. They love to please, so it's fun to expand their horizons - and it's wise, as a bored BC really is a disaster. That's how most of my rescues end up here. Most of them get frustrated and nippy.

That's what happened to this guy - now he's doing this:



But he could have just as easily been happy doing agility with someone. All it took to get the nippiness out of him was a predictable routine in his life - it was gone before he'd ever seen a sheep closer than across the pasture.

You don't have to do sheep. You don't have to even do structured sports. I used to set up jumps in my old house and throw the ball over - the jumps were made of chairs, a broomstick, and a towel to make the broomstick more visible and for safety.



This little dog loved to chase water from the hose:



Most of the day my dogs follow me around and if I stop, they do this without being told:



It's hard to know what all to say. I can answer any question you might have. I have a ton more pictures at http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v296/brookcove/
 

mrose_s

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#32
actually when I started training buster I did exactly the same thing wiht the jumps, i found it was way harder for me to have good depth perception without a towel or soemthing, I would really like to do herding. I spent a lot of time at my uncles farm, he has kelpies thuogh(thats where I fell in love with the breed)

I would prefer to rescue, I feel awful buying from even a reputable breeder when there is probably a dog that suits me waiting to be put to sleep soemwhere.
I'll have to work on getting into a routine befoe I get one though, i'll have more routine when I have a job. Everything is sounding so far. If i ever do get form a breeder though I'd rather go with working lines because thats what realy BC's are.
 

Lizmo

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#33
IMO, the only way to get a rela feel for the breed is to actually hang out with some BC's. Ya, you can read until your head aches but at the end of the day you can't really understand until you've hung out with one.
I totally agree, Emily.

I've also been looking into breeders and found one that is breeding for performance sports. If all health testing etc is done do you think this is a reputable breeder? As a lot of the reason I'm considerng a BC is to compete in a lot of dog sports.
I would, like others, go with a working breeder. Because, after all, thats what the Border Collie was bred to do.

Great pictures and details Becca! :)
 
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#34
Sadie is lab/border collie mix. She is VERY active. Great with agility. Loves to play, and if she's bored she will bark the house down. :)

She is also EXTREMELY smart. She picks up things very quickly. She looks you in the eyes and you can see she is working out what you said. She gets along great with other dogs and cats (now my cats aren't fond of her, but she's ok with them). She housebroke so easy. She never went in her crate and only a couple of times in the house (those were because I wasn't paying attention).
 

Lizmo

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#35
^^ Thats another thing (lol, I just love the breed) Lizzie was so easy to housetrain.

She "got it" within just a couple weeks.
 

Whisper

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#36
Fabulous pics and posts, Becca. I also think it's awesome you do rescue stuff. :D
 

mrose_s

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#37
they really sound like just about everything I've been looking for, I'm still loyal to my kelpies but no reason I can't have a BC for a while. I don't know what I'd do without a herding breed.
 

RD

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#39
Looks like everyone has covered what I was going to say! :) But I will elaborate on the "off switch". Yes, Border Collies are active. Yes, they're intense. Yes, they're friggin obnoxious if understimulated. But they're not unbearable to live with. It's a lot like living with an inquisitive child. They want to follow you around, they're interested in what you're doing; but they also want to do something on their own. They love the feeling of accomplishment, and I've had people roll their eyes at me when I say this, but it's absolutely true of my dogs. Even if they pick up a toy and drop it in the toy box, they carry their body a little bit prouder. Living with a border collie is entirely unlike living with most dogs, and it will take some getting used to if you're accustomed to other breeds.

Rescue is a great idea. Regarding breeders, I wouldn't feel "guilty" about buying a puppy from a reputable breeder if that's indeed what you want. I feel that either way, whether you rescue or buy a well-bred dog from a good breeder, you're doing right by the breed.

I absolutely love the breed and can't imagine my life without border collies!
 

SizzleDog

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#40
Mrose, I would avoid a breeder breeding purely for Performance Sports.

The BC was ALWAYS bred for working ability, which is why you see BC's of all shapes/sizes/colours. When you get breeders breeding for only sports, it takes away from the breed as a whole.

~Tucker
I TOTALLY agree. I hate to say it, but the performance breeders have ruined this breed for me - the Flyball crowd. I used to be neutral on BCs... and then I met some people with Sporter Collies. They completely turned me off to the breed - not just the dogs, but the people too.

The Sporter Collies I've known have attacked other dogs for no reason, have been submissive peers, had horrible health problems at very young ages. Their "people" are rude, opinionated, and misinformed. They work their dogs hard when they're still baby puppies, and wonder why their dogs fall apart at 9 months. They treat their dogs like sports equipment, to be discarded when not useful anymore. They breed them to Jack Russels. And this seems to be the norm, not the exception.

True Border Collies I like... but I have only seen a handful. The rest of the "Border Collies" I've met at practically lived with have been monsters. It's a shame that they've ruined the breed for me, and other people as well. :(
 

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