Belgian Shepherd and Belgian Malinios Belgian Tervure

[release the hounds]

True...but by the same token, unles you know what you're looking at, you can easily be taken for a ride when going to a Sch breeder looking for a PP dog. Someone who knows how to bring out a dog could easily make Nyx look great. But when she's feeling threatened, her first reaction is to tuck her tail and leave.

yeah, you can be taken anywhere you go for a dog, but in my experience the you're more likely to be taken for a ride in with one group over the other. If someone really wants a dog like this, they should start going to training groups NOW. learn for a couple years how dogs are trained, what is in a dog, and what gets covered up in training. Find good people and then start looking for a dog.

But I've been around a lot of Sch trainers/breeders/dogs and many of those people have trialed in worlds. Several of the dogs I've seen were very flighty off the field.

and who might those dogs be? I haven't come across a lot of world class dogs in this country that weren't pretty good. They weren't all what I'd like, but it's not often a less than quality dog would make the team.

One dog I knew of had so little interest in biting they did a forced retrieve with the sleeve and he went to worlds.

without seeing the dog, this by itself means nothing. a great PPD i know, well knew, he died this summer, had very little interest in biting a sleeve or doing schutzhund. we had to work our asses off to get him to do any of the exercises because his thresholds were so high and it was boring for him. Finally, and thankfully the handler decided it wasn't worth it to try and title him.

This same dog basically blew up a plastic crate, punched the door off the crate and thru the window of a nissan SUV when his handler got into a wrestling match after training one day. This same dog would bruise your ribs so bad muzzle fighting it hurt for days to breath. Awesome PPD, and his grand daddy took 2nd in the USA nationals and his sire was also a pretty good sch dog that was ready for the national stage when he died of bloat. So, what does all that mean?

Yup, a great way to find PP dogs.

it is actually, considering almost any dog worth anything( doing this type of work) in this world has come directly from schutzhund titled dogs or has them not far back in its pedigree. So yeah, I'd say your chances are pretty good when compared to the alternative.

This is a good point. What about going to someone who is a broker of sorts? Not your puppy mill type broker, but someone who deals expressly with PP type dogs and buys/sells specifically for that. I know of one on my other board if you want his name, he seems to be pretty reputable and does import/export frequently by the sounds of it. Also breeds Mals. He might be a good person to point you in the right direction

depending on the broker , like anything else it can be good or bad. I think there are plenty of quality dogs being bred right here in this country though to have to look at a broker importing a dog. Especially these days with the cost of shipping and the exchange rate. I'd rather go see and learn and then buy, but that's me.

 

[stafinois]

as for deterent? I'm thinking a fluffy, pretty dog is not going to do much to deter anyone away. If you're looking for that get a black dog or a rottie or GSD. Usually the sight alone is enough. A Terv is more likely to bring back lassie images than stay away thoughts in anybody walking by.

I don't know, most people see Belgians and think that they are GSDs, particularly the Tervs & Malis. The Groen people often report that people think that their dogs are black wolves. I've heard of more than one Laeken being mistaken for a goat. That might not be much of a deterrent. Although, I've encountered some nasty goats before, and one would cause me to think twice.

My own Belgian (Malinois flavored) sheds very little, actually. His coat is more plush than a lot of working bred dogs, but not as plush as dogs from show lines. His sire threw a number of longhairs. His breeder once commented that she wondered if Harry carried it, as he has more feathering on his rear legs and tail than most of her dogs.

Here are a few of Harry's half-siblings...

Bomber FRIII
Topsy
Kramer

Here is a Terv out of Malinois that is not closely related, but owned by my dog's breeder: Extra

Joyride Tervuren is a kennel in California that has SchHII & III dogs, but I'm not sure that they themselves breed. There are a handful of Groens out there being worked in bitesports as well.

Would you consider a rescue? Malinois rescue always has a lot of really nice dogs available. They even get puppies on a fairly regular basis. A lot of morons breed Malinois thinking that they are going to get rich selling them as protection dogs, then discover that it's not that easy, and whole litters get dumped.

 

[MafiaPrincess]

I know a good number of tervs and groenendals through agility here. Many are at the very least DR some are DA. All lovely dogs many that I adore. They are too much dog for me though and would never own one. All the mals I know are awesome agility dogs and drivey. A few are pretty low key when not working and a few have flayed open their handlers with misplaced bites while in the ring.

Not the breed for me. Probably enough dog to scare off most perceived threats though.

While an accident, a lady here with a house of tervs had her finger bitten off during a fight last summer. Any dog can do damage but it reminded me how much dog is in that package though.

 

[AGonzalez]

depending on the broker , like anything else it can be good or bad. I think there are plenty of quality dogs being bred right here in this country though to have to look at a broker importing a dog. Especially these days with the cost of shipping and the exchange rate. I'd rather go see and learn and then buy, but that's me.

Actually the one I have in mind buys US and imports (also breeds) and contracts with our military for dogs and such. From what I gather he has a pretty good reputation for being honest and fair, that's why I asked if that would be something you'd consider when looking for a dog.

 

[release the hounds]

Staf- those are some nice dogs, and as you know, not from someone breeding for "Terv's", but breeding good belgian dogs that get a longer coat sometimes. What a Terv should be I think, rather than a lot of breeders that breed just for coat. That's a huge difference to me.

 

[release the hounds]

Actually the one I have in mind buys US and imports (also breeds) and contracts with our military for dogs and such. From what I gather he has a pretty good reputation for being honest and fair, that's why I asked if that would be something you'd consider when looking for a dog.

It never hurts to know another name, he may even be on my list already All my dogs currently are from kennels within 30 minutes to 3.5 hours away. I'm hoping I never have to go further than that away. So far I haven't had trouble finding a good dog though.

 

[stafinois]

Staf- those are some nice dogs, and as you know, not from someone breeding for "Terv's", but breeding good belgian dogs that get a longer coat sometimes. What a Terv should be I think, rather than a lot of breeders that breed just for coat. That's a huge difference to me.

Very true. And even though they are fluffy, they don't have nearly the coat that you see in the show ring. Although, a lot of those dogs are blow dried and fluffed. Many don't look much fluffier than the Mali bred Tervs when you just run into them on the street.

 

[SummerRiot]

Thanks Jules! I'm still remember here hehe

I do have both Tervuren and Gronendael. They are my heart breed, I would not own any other breed. They are one of the most versatile dogs out there. They were originally bred to drive the flock and guard them. They are a true guardian breed - which is good at bad for some people. They don't usually suit a home that isn't going to stimulate them as they always need a job and to be exercised physically and mentally.
In their breed standard for CKC - they are supposed to always be in motion unless under command.

You will see belgians compete in just about every venue out there; carting, herding, agility, obedience, conformation, SAR, Schutzhund, tracking, dock diving, Rally Obedience, Canine Good Neighbours, Temperment Tests etc etc. the list goes on and on. There isn't a job that they can't fulfill.

I have my Tervuren in just about anything I could possibly take him to. He has participated in Sledding (he is one of the lead dogs in our sled team of huskies in the winter time here), herding, obedience (working on his CDX), herding (excelled at it), Rally Obedience (finished all his CKC levels.. working on CARO now), Agility(numberous titles and working on more), Conformation (has his Can CH), Search and Rescue(loved it, but my work got in the way), he has his CGN, TT(excelled at it).
I can take him to the Canada Day fireworks and he will sit quietly and watch them with me.

My Gronendael girl, is still young and just working on her Cnd CH. at the moment. She will absolutely excell in obedience and agility. I can trust her with anyone and any dog. She is just wonderful.

My male is awesome with most dogs, can get showy when he is around a dominant intact male, but he is never aggresive. He loves people as well. He'll gladly go up to strangers at his dog shows and wiggle his way into them for pets, hugs etc.

I've never had any issues with either dog ever. The girls shed more then the boys. The girls blow their entire under coat out twice a year around their heat cycles, the males blow their entire coat out once a year. They should be line groomed about once a month and brushed out weekly to keep stray hairs away and to keep them mat free. Riot, my Tervuren, has such an amazing coat. He is brushed out minimally and always looks conformation show ready.

Nyxi, my Gronendael needs a little more coat maintenance due to having a bit of a wave to her coat that I would personally like to see a bit straighter. Other then that, they shed minimally. I have no complaints about their coats.

As far as temperment goes, you really have to know what your looking for and speak with the breeder and ask them exactly type of dogs they breed, why they do and what type of lines they have.

Genetic tests that need to be done on a Belgian before breeding according to the OFA is eyes to be CERF'd, OFA hips/elbows, and a tyroid profile done. There is elbow dysplasia and hip dysplasia(lesser though) in the breed. There is also eye issues to watch for and epilepsy is another to watch for in Belgian lines.

Honestly, if i didn't know Riot, my Tervuren and he was standing in the window at my house - I wouldn't enter.. lol
He has detered an intruder once before as well, hes protected my mom(he was there as I was house sitting at another place that had DA dogs) the neighbours were broken into, the man started coming into my parents house and Riot jumped inbetween them and kept him from coming into the house.
I would not want a dog solely on its looks or ability to "deter criminals".

If you have any questions about the breed, feel free to PM me I hope I answered a few questions for you.

a few pics of my Belgians
Nyx, my young one. She is under 1yr old

Riot.. on his birthday this year

Riot again

Riot next to the horse field

This is why belgians need jobs too.. they will find their own. Nyxi stripping the bark from our horse fence posts

 

[stafinois]

Can Nyxi get any cuter?

Riot is stunning!

 

[JennSLK]

Thanks Summer. Hopefully you can set a few things straght that have been missleading on this thread.

 

[release the hounds]

Misleading? I hope you're not referring to me, but I think you are. I guess having real world experience testing and pressuring these dogs against a standard of many other dogs doesn't give me any real place to speak from huh?

someone asked for opinions and experience, I gave mine, sorry it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

 

[HayleyMarie]

Thank you all of yah. I learned alot and I have some things to think about and ponder on

 

[SummerRiot]

I know some wonderful breeders out your way, if your truely interested I could get you in contact with them.

Belgians are definitely not for everyone, I'm glad that you are taking this all in stride and allowing those who have life experience with this wonderful breed educate you.

They are not for a first time dog owner as some will walk all over you if given the chance. They require a gentle yet firm handler that is not nervous. My male doesn't listen to just anyone - he cracks me up. My husband will try and get him to do something.. even as simple as sit and Riot will just look at me as if to say "should I?" but as soon as I whisper to him, he'll drop his butt instantly lol

They are a very fast thinking dog and wonderful problem solvers. The belgians are not a breed that will just sit at your feet day in and day out relaxed and lazy. They need to be challenged on a day to day basis or bad habits will be created.

A belgian should never be judged against another dogs ability as they are quite unique. They are not like a GSD in shape, mind or intent. They are not like a Collie etc etc. You should always judge a belgian off knowing the breed. I suggest that you go to a few dog shows, speak with belgian owners/breeders about their experiences and meet the breed in numerous different dogs. The one thing you will find with a belgian is they have a HUGE sense of humor.

If Riot hears me laughing at something he's done, he'll do it over and over lol

They have definitely become my heart breed and I could not say enough good things about this breed - BUT they do have their downfalls with an owner who doesn't 100% understand them. Sometimes Belgians that are not socialized enough or properly at a young age can become insecure (as any dog - but belgians need a lot of socializing at a very young age up until they are past their fear/aggresion stage of life usually around 6-7 months old) and some people see insecure and think aggresive or fearful - when that is not the case. They are an extremely athletic dog with minimal body fat - also something you need to know about them. That can cause sensitivities to certain medications and sedation drugs. There are certian anesthetics that a belgian should never be given as well.

Riot has become the type of dog that I lean on for support as well. Whenever I need an extra hand - he is there. He has been trained to open and close doors for me (bringing groceries in the house is one of the best times for him helping me here lol), he knows to go and get his collar and leash for me - even if they are up on a table, he will find anything I ask him to that is hidden in our fields. He will retrieve his sisters metal dish otu of her kennel if she has kicked it to the back, he'll pick up pencils I've dropped on que. He is the life guard at our cottage, he'll tow in our kayaks for us. He will even lead our horses around in the pasture by the lead rope. He is the overall dog that I had been searching for, for years. I will never be without a Belgian now.

Nyxi is coming in her own, she is still very young and learning lots as the days go on. Riot is a very good teacher too.
a few more pics of my heart dog;
Riot at the Canadian Belgian National Specialty last year;

Riot next to one of our huskies in the lead sledding with my husband

Riot practisng for dock diving

Riot again in the winter

Nyxi during her HIC test

Riot doing some agility

more agility

A video of Riot doing some agility practise. This is when he was first starting out
YouTube - Riot doing Agility

Riot at 2.5 months old.. just a quick video, but this breed picks things up soo fast - good and bad lol
YouTube - Riot

 

[Jules]

Ah, I think it's about time you post more pictures. I have missed your crew waaaaay too long!

 

[stafinois]

Misleading? I hope you're not referring to me, but I think you are. I guess having real world experience testing and pressuring these dogs against a standard of many other dogs doesn't give me any real place to speak from huh?

someone asked for opinions and experience, I gave mine, sorry it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

I think that it's your description of the dogs as essentially worthless "nerve bags." They might be if you are looking to competing at international levels, or even just at NARA events. But, I didn't get the impression that the OP is looking to do that.

I personally despise trashing dogs just because they don't have the drives that the person trashing them finds useful. A dog that you might think is garbage could be another person's agility or herding champion. Or even more important, they might be somebody's service dog or a lifesaving SAR dog. And on the other hand, the serious bird and hound dog guys around here would probably find your favorite dogs completely worthless.

For what the OP wants, I think that a Belgian of any flavor with a correct temperament could potentially be a great choice provided that she is a good match for the breed.

 

[HayleyMarie]

Ah Summer Your actually making me fall inlove with the breed. Your dogs sound wonderful and are so beautiful thank you for your help. I will deffinatly PM you for breeders near me if I become more interested in the breed.

The thing that worries me is that I might not be able to provide them with enough metal stimulation once we move into a house with a fenced in yard. There is not alot of things for dogs to do in Fort McMurray. Although it does have an awesome DP and forest walking.

I am sure a Belgian would excell on our farm though there is tons of land and lots to do

Thanks again, Your the best

You have made my intrest spike though and I will be looking more into the breed

 

[jenv101]

I just wanted to chime in and say that I feel very safe walking Riley. His sleek muscular build and black face definitely look intimidating to strangers.

 

[stafinois]

The thing that worries me is that I might not be able to provide them with enough metal stimulation once we move into a house with a fenced in yard. There is not alot of things for dogs to do in Fort McMurray. Although it does have an awesome DP and forest walking.

They are more adjustable than you might think. When I first purchased Harry (a VERY intense working bred Malinois), he was training in French Ring and PP several times a week. Then we moved to the middle of nowhere, so the training stopped. Soon after that, the baby came and Harry REALLY got pushed to the back burner. He's more obnoxious than the average house dog, but he's tolerable.

I certainly don't RECOMMEND getting a dog of Harry's caliber then expecting it to get as little stimulation as he gets, but I wasn't going to part with my pal just because of my lifestyle change. Lots of physical and mental exercise is enough to keep the breed happy and sane. I've known many who had them as house pets in the city, but didn't actually compete in dog sports.

 

[HayleyMarie]

I just wanted to chime in and say that I feel very safe walking Riley. His sleek muscular build and black face definitely look intimidating to strangers.

Yah when I think of A belgian I dont think of a collie. I think of a muscular, powerful dog that I would not want to go up again. I think more of a GSD. I dont really need a dog that will protect, I am sure lots of dogs will do that in a threatening situation. I want more of a dog that will deter people away. But I want a confident, good tempered dog.

 

[HayleyMarie]

They are more adjustable than you might think. When I first purchased Harry (a VERY intense working bred Malinois), he was training in French Ring and PP several times a week. Then we moved to the middle of nowhere, so the training stopped. Soon after that, the baby came and Harry REALLY got pushed to the back burner. He's more obnoxious than the average house dog, but he's tolerable.

I certainly don't RECOMMEND getting a dog of Harry's caliber then expecting it to get as little stimulation as he gets, but I wasn't going to part with my pal just because of my lifestyle change. Lots of physical and mental exercise is enough to keep the breed happy and sane. I've known many who had them as house pets in the city, but didn't actually compete in dog sports.

Thats good to hear I know I would be able to provide enough physical and mental stimulations as Teagan is pretty high energy even is she is a widdle terrier. How would a Belgian breed be with a terrier Breed?