Belgian Shepherd and Belgian Malinios Belgian Tervure

[HayleyMarie]

Are they all the same thing or is the only difference in the coat?

I met the most freaking beautiful Belgian Shepherd at the dog park yesturday. She was just breath taking stunning. I wanted to steal her. The owner also had to pup with her and I wanted to steal him as well.

They were both the most beautiful butter scotch, cream color. And black noses. I was actually is dog heavan.

They both actually looked pretty close to this:

So what would she be? A tervuren?

I also asked her about the shedding and asked her to compare it to a GSD as she has owned then as well and she says they don't even compare. I might have too look more closly to this breed and do more reasearch because they caught my fancy.

 

[release the hounds]

the few i've met have been complete nerve bags.

 

[HayleyMarie]

the few i've met have been complete nerve bags.

I have actually seen them many times at the DP and this dog does not seem to be nervey all. Very confident. I think these dogs are from good breeders though as she seems to know alot about dogs and they both looked very well bred.

 

[release the hounds]

i'm sure the could make fine pets. as a dog from a working breed? even the good breeders are producing nerve bags. it's a rarity to find one with a strong enough nerve and temperament to work. confident is not a word I'd use to describe them.

the woman about 2 miles from me has 3 terv's and does shows and agility. Good smart woman, decent dogs, very well liked and respected in her training circles and around town, but the dogs are in fact nerve bags IMO. In my experience it's night and day difference in the nerve dept between a Mal and Terv and most people think Mal's are a bit nervy

 

[HayleyMarie]

Hmm intersting thanks for the info. I am hoping that I can talk to the woman some more and get more info from her about her dogs and where they are from. But if being Nervy is a breed trait thats really not what I want in a dog.

 

[corgipower]

Belgian Shepherd covers four varieties of dog -

Malinois, short coat, fawn
Groenendael, long coat, black (Registered in AKC as Belgian Sheepdog)
Tervuren, long coat, fawn/mahogany - that's what's in your picture
Laekenois, coarse, somewhat curly coat, fawn

The AKC recognizes them as separate breeds, but they really aren't, and occasionally a breeding with both parents of the same variety produces one of the other varieties in the litter.

As for nerves? I don't know that any one variety is nervier than another. It depends on the lines for the most part. The groens and tervs have mainly been developed into confo/obed/agility dogs while the malis are still used a lot in protection work, so that certainly is a factor in differences in drives/nerves.

Also, Nyx is quite nervy, but if she's in a situation she's used to and comfortable with, she won't appear nervy at all. Put her into unfamiliar territory and she'll fall apart. Also, it doesn't show up the way you might be looking for it ~ she does a lot of sniffing/chewing/grazing/zooming when she's worried about things. Tyr's nerves are better, unless you put a flexi on the ground next to him. For some reason that'll just put him in a complete meltdown and he won't move.

 

[release the hounds]

there are good terv's to be had, but you must look to get one. i don't know of anywhere I'd go to get one, but if I wanted a good one I could probably find one. Most good Terv's are like corgi said, one in the same with Mal's. They should be at least. Kind of like sometimes you get a long coat GSD, you get a fluffy Mal and call it a Terv But then you have those breeding for just fluffies and it gets tough to find good temperments.

I'm sure you can find what you're looking for, just be aware. I'll take good temperament and confidence any day over looks, so If I wanted to find a good dog from belgian lines I'd go looking and if one happened to be a mal, i'd take it, if it was a Terv, I'd take it, but that's just me

 

[HayleyMarie]

What I am looking for in a breed for the future is a companion/able to deter people away from the house or when I am walking.

Since we will be living in an area where drugs/violence is a problem. Its not where we will live, but down town where all the shopping is not a nice area at all.

Does the Belgian Shephard have a change of having DA Same sex agression? And what is the shedding like?

 

[release the hounds]

any dog has the chance of being DA i'm guessing the odds are about the same with them. as for coat? I'm not sure. I know "fluffy" gsd's don't seem to shed like the standard stock coat, but that's more because it's a finer undercoat and needs to be brushed out rather than just fall out like a stock coat. Not sure if terv's are at all similiar, i've never gotten past their temperments when working to even know what kind of coat they have. I'm no help on that one

as for deterent? I'm thinking a fluffy, pretty dog is not going to do much to deter anyone away. If you're looking for that get a black dog or a rottie or GSD. Usually the sight alone is enough. A Terv is more likely to bring back lassie images than stay away thoughts in anybody walking by.

 

[HayleyMarie]

there are good terv's to be had, but you must look to get one. i don't know of anywhere I'd go to get one, but if I wanted a good one I could probably find one. Most good Terv's are like corgi said, one in the same with Mal's. They should be at least. Kind of like sometimes you get a long coat GSD, you get a fluffy Mal and call it a Terv But then you have those breeding for just fluffies and it gets tough to find good temperments.

I'm sure you can find what you're looking for, just be aware. I'll take good temperament and confidence any day over looks, so If I wanted to find a good dog from belgian lines I'd go looking and if one happened to be a mal, i'd take it, if it was a Terv, I'd take it, but that's just me

Oh totally agree I would take confident and temperment over looks anyday. And confident and a good solid temperment is what I want considering the situation we will be in a couple of years. But If a Terv or a Mali is what I want I will be going shopping for breeders and find a dog that I want not just wants avaliable.

So if this is the breed I want would I look for a breeder that does schutzhund and is breeding dogs that have confidence and a strong healthy temperment other than a breeder who just does showing and obediance. Would it make a difference?

 

[HayleyMarie]

any dog has the chance of being DA i'm guessing the odds are about the same with them. as for coat? I'm not sure. I know "fluffy" gsd's don't seem to shed like the standard stock coat, but that's more because it's a finer undercoat and needs to be brushed out rather than just fall out like a stock coat. Not sure if terv's are at all similiar, i've never gotten past their temperments when working to even know what kind of coat they have. I'm no help on that one

as for deterent? I'm thinking a fluffy, pretty dog is not going to do much to deter anyone away. If you're looking for that get a black dog or a rottie or GSD. Usually the sight alone is enough. A Terv is more likely to bring back lassie images than stay away thoughts in anybody walking by.

Yah I am thinking I might just end up getting a good Bouve from a fantastic breeder since I know that breed and their temperment and I know they deter bad attention away. But I really wanted to bring a different breed into my flock.

 

[corgipower]

What I am looking for in a breed for the future is a companion/able to deter people away from the house or when I am walking.

Since we will be living in an area where drugs/violence is a problem. Its not where we will live, but down town where all the shopping is not a nice area at all.

Does the Belgian Shephard have a change of having DA Same sex agression? And what is the shedding like?

TBH, a gun might do you more good than a dog. Or living somewhere else entirely.

IME, which is somewhat minimal, there's not as much DA in Belgians as in some breeds. They might be aggressive toward dogs outside their family, but tend to be OK with housemates. But of course any breed can be DA, so you do need to be prepared for it.

My malis shed quite a bit, Nyx more than Tyr, but her coat is thicker than his.

So if this is the breed I want would I look for a breeder that does schutzhund and is breeding dogs that have confidence and a strong healthy temperment other than a breeder who just does showing and obediance. Would it make a difference?

If you need PP, look at breeders producing PP dogs. Schutzhund dogs do a very choreographed sport. A lot of dogs doing Sch would crumble under a real threat.

 

[HayleyMarie]

TBH, a gun might do you more good than a dog. Or living somewhere else entirely.

IME, which is somewhat minimal, there's not as much DA in Belgians as in some breeds. They might be aggressive toward dogs outside their family, but tend to be OK with housemates. But of course any breed can be DA, so you do need to be prepared for it.

My malis shed quite a bit, Nyx more than Tyr, but her coat is thicker than his.

Thanks for the great info, unfortunalty I wish it was easier said than done. Tylers an minning engineer so we go where the mines are. And to he honest where we would live is far away from the bad part, but there is still a bad part down town. And carrying a gun is illegal to do in Canada

DA is not so much a big deal to me as it was, since pretty much every breed can develope it especially the working breeds and that is what I want. Even my cute white crazy terrier

 

[Pops2]

is it illegal to carry wasp spray (yes you'll need a bigger purse)? 25-35 ft accurate and effect is similar to mace/pepper spray but can also cause SEVERE poisoning for which the cops can pick them up at the hospital later. any big dog w/ alerting tendancies will deter 99% of bad guys and the ones that won't be detered by a big dog are not the crackhead mugger type, usually a more dangerous "professional" class of criminal.
just like any breed you look around for who has what you're looking for. if you want a strong drive PP capable terv look for someone breeding & competing in an appropriate venu like ring or ideally KNPV. they may have crossed in mal or dutchie under the table to get more intensity, if working is a bigger factor than perfect looks.

 

[release the hounds]

I wouldn't go to anybody breeding "PP" dogs unless you have been around this stuff a LONG time and know exactly what you're looking at when you go test dogs. 99.9% of "PP" proclaimed breeders breed nothing but junk and their training is even worse.

Now there are some good people, but the chances are much, much higher you'll be taken for a ride than you being that you'll end up with a good dog.

yeah schutzhund is a routine, and one that has been the backbone of almost every single working dog out there today. Might not want to knock it so much unless you've titled and tested dogs yourself. Just because some people pay it lip service and slip by on less than adequate work, doesn't mean there aren't a lot of trainers and breeders around the world using the test as they should and producing very nice dogs because of it.

I'd say in terms of working, about 10% of the dogs people come with that they classify as "PP" are adequate dogs with decent training. The rest you couldn't pay me to have, either because they owners screwed them up, or the royaly screwed up an already screwed up dog.

All sports are just that, sports. I would look at someone consistently producing some working venue dogs, whether is one of the ring sports, KNPV, or schtuzhund and start there. The venue doesn't matter, the consistency does

 

[corgipower]

I wouldn't go to anybody breeding "PP" dogs unless you have been around this stuff a LONG time and know exactly what you're looking at when you go test dogs. 99.9% of "PP" proclaimed breeders breed nothing but junk and their training is even worse.

Now there are some good people, but the chances are much, much higher you'll be taken for a ride than you being that you'll end up with a good dog.

True...but by the same token, unles you know what you're looking at, you can easily be taken for a ride when going to a Sch breeder looking for a PP dog. Someone who knows how to bring out a dog could easily make Nyx look great. But when she's feeling threatened, her first reaction is to tuck her tail and leave.

yeah schutzhund is a routine, and one that has been the backbone of almost every single working dog out there today. Might not want to knock it so much unless you've titled and tested dogs yourself. Just because some people pay it lip service and slip by on less than adequate work, doesn't mean there aren't a lot of trainers and breeders around the world using the test as they should and producing very nice dogs because of it.

I haven't titled in it...no time to do tracking. But I've been around a lot of Sch trainers/breeders/dogs and many of those people have trialed in worlds. Several of the dogs I've seen were very flighty off the field. One dog I knew of had so little interest in biting they did a forced retrieve with the sleeve and he went to worlds. Yup, a great way to find PP dogs.

All sports are just that, sports.

Very true.

 

[JennSLK]

You might want to check these people out: Synecdocke Belgian Shepherds

From what I have seen and heard their dogs are really solid. They are a decent distance from you too. Drop them a line. Never hurts to email and ask questions.

 

[HayleyMarie]

Thanks guys
And thanks Jen I will deff be looking them up and see what I can learn from them, heck they are only about two hours away.

 

[AGonzalez]

I wouldn't go to anybody breeding "PP" dogs unless you have been around this stuff a LONG time and know exactly what you're looking at when you go test dogs. 99.9% of "PP" proclaimed breeders breed nothing but junk and their training is even worse.

This is a good point. What about going to someone who is a broker of sorts? Not your puppy mill type broker, but someone who deals expressly with PP type dogs and buys/sells specifically for that. I know of one on my other board if you want his name, he seems to be pretty reputable and does import/export frequently by the sounds of it. Also breeds Mals. He might be a good person to point you in the right direction

Now there are some good people, but the chances are much, much higher you'll be taken for a ride than you being that you'll end up with a good dog.

Bingo. Just like show dogs, people can put a bigger price tag on a "PP bred" dog. Buyer beware. Get someone who KNOWS what's going on to help you find a good dog, don't go on word of the breeder alone.
yeah schutzhund is a routine, and one that has been the backbone of almost every single working dog out there today. Might not want to knock it so much unless you've titled and tested dogs yourself. Just because some people pay it lip service and slip by on less than adequate work, doesn't mean there aren't a lot of trainers and breeders around the world using the test as they should and producing very nice dogs because of it.

I'd say in terms of working, about 10% of the dogs people come with that they classify as "PP" are adequate dogs with decent training. The rest you couldn't pay me to have, either because they owners screwed them up, or the royaly screwed up an already screwed up dog.

All sports are just that, sports. I would look at someone consistently producing some working venue dogs, whether is one of the ring sports, KNPV, or schtuzhund and start there. The venue doesn't matter, the consistency does

I agreed with all the rest of it. SchH might be routine, but it's the backbone of most bite sports and PP training. Just minus the tracking part. Yeah there are some nerve bags that title in any venue, there are also show dogs that are butt ugly that title as well...same difference. Buyer beware - I think that bears repeating.

 

[Jules]

I think you ought to search for SummerRiot on here... maybe someone can let her know that you are interested in Belgians? She knows the breed