Tricks and Training

Taqroy said:
I LOVE the backwards weave! How did you start that?
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Pivots!

Traveler looooves to pivot so much so when he gets bored in heel position he'll start to pivot. Bad habit but worked well for this trick because all I did was stand there and he eventually kicked back and started to twist. From there I just kept my legs spread really wide and didn't move while marking for him moving.

The biggest hurdle was his tail. Stupid tail kept catching on my other leg and wrapping around like a monkey and he would stop and go the other way then instead of all the way through my legs.
 
What is a really good "intro to shaping" read? and how would you go about teaching with both luring and shaping?

I am so used to the idea of luring, but I love the idea of working that little puppy brain and am hoping to maybe doing some shaping as well!
 
I don't really know any good shaping reads. Maybe Sara does?

Mainly I just winged it and keep chanting to myself to be patient, keep criteria small and not get frustrated.

Honestly, if I were you and being that I was so dependent on luring, I might go into it with the idea to do all shaping. Just try it. Then, more than likely at some point you will end up luring, or half luring, or using your body to mold something. But, going in trying to find the way to shape everything makes you start really examining how you train and the little pieces. I just know from experience when I was like "oh, I can do shaping AND luring" I ended up "cheating" so much and it showed in my training.

Not that luring is bad or cheating! I'm bad at it, but it's a very effective way to train! I just really love shaping now that I do it all the time.

Another idea might be to teach a hand target and use that as a substitute lure.
 
One thing that really helped me was teaching Lily to follow my finger as a target, so I can get her going on the right path without having a food lure in hand.
 
Linds said:
Pivots!

Traveler looooves to pivot so much so when he gets bored in heel position he'll start to pivot. Bad habit but worked well for this trick because all I did was stand there and he eventually kicked back and started to twist. From there I just kept my legs spread really wide and didn't move while marking for him moving.

The biggest hurdle was his tail. Stupid tail kept catching on my other leg and wrapping around like a monkey and he would stop and go the other way then instead of all the way through my legs.
Click to expand...

I'm such a fickle trick teacher. I want to teach backward leg weaves now instead of limp. LOL. At least I wouldn't have to worry about the tail problem??

Fran101 said:
What is a really good "intro to shaping" read? and how would you go about teaching with both luring and shaping?

I am so used to the idea of luring, but I love the idea of working that little puppy brain and am hoping to maybe doing some shaping as well!
Click to expand...

I don't know of a good book for general shaping - there's one for agility called Shaping Success but I don't know how good it is for not-agility people. I started out with 101 things to do with a box, which is fun, but doesn't really tell you how to proceed from there.

One of the things that really helped me "get it" was shaping a person. It's much harder than you think it is (talking isn't allowed obviously lol) and it really makes you think about what steps and stages you need before you can get the end behavior.

I think it would help to start out with a simple behavior. Tipper's first shaped behavior was "sleepy". You basically start out in a flat and click for ANY chin movement. Once they get that you click for downward movement, then chin hitting the floor, then staying on the floor.

Shaping is a gateway drug. I'm just letting you know. :lol-sign: Also, the behaviors my dogs have that are shaped are 100 times stronger than their lured behaviors. Mu STILL throws a head twitch from three years ago that I accidentally clicked when I was trying to shape a spin. It really sticks with them. When I finally get to have another puppy I'm probably going to shape everything I possibly can. Thinking dogs are SO MUCH FUN.
 
Here are some of the tricks Zinga is working on right now. All three of these videos are our first sessions of these tricks.

Bowl in a bowl
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/eIIbG2ADZ2Q?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Handstand... watch at 1:40 for her to offer "frog" in the handstand position. :rofl1:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Fsh9heXH9dw?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Lifting same side legs
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wKKf2YR0rXA?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Zinga is doing great! The frog/handstand was my fave! I only have one leg going back for frog right now.

Zuma is such a good girl :)
 
Linds said:
I don't really know any good shaping reads. Maybe Sara does?

Mainly I just winged it and keep chanting to myself to be patient, keep criteria small and not get frustrated.

Honestly, if I were you and being that I was so dependent on luring, I might go into it with the idea to do all shaping. Just try it. Then, more than likely at some point you will end up luring, or half luring, or using your body to mold something. But, going in trying to find the way to shape everything makes you start really examining how you train and the little pieces. I just know from experience when I was like "oh, I can do shaping AND luring" I ended up "cheating" so much and it showed in my training.

Not that luring is bad or cheating! I'm bad at it, but it's a very effective way to train! I just really love shaping now that I do it all the time.

Another idea might be to teach a hand target and use that as a substitute lure.
Click to expand...

I think that's what I'm going to do :) worse comes to worse I cheat a little but I really want to try shaping!
 
Linds said:
I don't really know any good shaping reads. Maybe Sara does?
Click to expand...

Missed this. I don't have any real recommendations on shaping info either. Kikopup would probably be my go-to for youtube videos.

What's odd is that once you become efficient with shaping, luring frustrates you. There are a few tricks that I've attempted to "cheat" at and lure instead of shape and it's only ended up with frustration on both ends. A dog that knows how to shape will pick up on new behaviors by that method the best, by far. Not only are they quicker to pick it up, but they retain the behavior for much longer.

It's easiest to capture behaviors at the beginning that involve an object. Touching a box with a paw, touching a nose to your hand or other target or standing on a box get the puppy thinking. They will also help you with your timing and observation skills. From there you can shape a new behavior stemming off of the captured one. So that paw touch on the box can turn into touching with both paws or pushing the box across the floor. The nose touch to your hand can turn into holding their nose against your hand for a duration. The standing on the box can turn into 2o2o, sitting on the box or laying down on it.

Keeping records is a great way to learn about shaping. Writing out a training plan for the desired behavior, each shaped step along the way, will help you think like your dog. Writing down click rates will help you understand if each stage is fluent enough to move to the next and will prevent you from rushing things. I thought I understood shaping before I went to KPA but didn't realize how little I actually understood about the process until they required me to keep records. Out of everything, I want to say I learned the most from that, not only about the process, but how my individual dog learns.

So, basically, the only way to really gain a good understanding about shaping is by going out there and doing it. :)
 
We officially have reverse leg weaves on Zinga!! This was our third session tonight and I wasn't expecting to see much, but she must have been thinking about it hard last night because she nailed it! A bit sticky at the beginning in the video but keep watching, it gets better.

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Zuma is working on stability and strength while standing on her hind legs so that we can start to incorporate this trick into our disc freestyle routine. Today we worked on left pivots in the heel position while standing on back legs. Just because we can.

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Pepper is stalled on the target training... she doesn't get to stand and hold, she keeps wanting to paw at it. Thinking back on how I trained with Auggie I didn't spend this much time on "just stand there and hold it," I moved the frisbee around a lot. So I think I'm going to try that. Have to move out of training in my bedroom to do so though.

I remember I trained Auggie to target on a day I had laryngitis. No speech at all because I couldn't talk - just the clicker and treats. Strange that I look back on that with a smile because I was so sick that day, LOL. He learned the game soooo fast... and then I had to switch to the bigger frisbee because I was using a small can lid and he was trying to cheat by only running UP to the lid and not actually touching, LOL. I had to use something bigger so I could tell he actually touched it. Snotty butt.

So here's Payton working more on Cop-Cop instead!
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QSKhkbhZBQE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Y0WK8aj9JFw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
This is seriously going to kill me.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/E4O1uHXSjCA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

He'll now do it without my sister helping but then we ran into the trouble of him not having the concentration or balance he needed and that I wasn't able to reward him while he was up there.

So I dragged my sister back and she's the one giving the treats but I'm the one cueing the cue. So the first one is me alone and the second half is with my sister.

We're also trying to find the right balance between enthusiasm and focus.
 
I LOL'd at frog leg Zinga!!!!!!!!!!

Zuma's standing pivots are awesome!

LOVED the Payton video. Heel? Down? Heel? So cute :)

Linds, I am so impressed that you're still determined to do the leg stall & that your sister is still willing to help!!!! Haha He's gettin better!!
 
k9krazee said:
Linds, I am so impressed that you're still determined to do the leg stall & that your sister is still willing to help!!!! Haha He's gettin better!!
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It's because I'm really stupid. I woke up this morning and my side hurt. Looked down and I have all these nice scratches from this.

I've been super lax on hind end awareness and back feet targeting with Didgie. But I sucked it up and started working on it.

This is the first time she's seen stools and the first time a board has been put almost vertical. It amazes me how much they generalize with this behavior.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aSuWdLvNo88" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Yay! Yay! Yay! YAAAY!

I don't know why this trick excites me so much but it does and it's my favorite that I've taught Traveler and now Didgie knows it too. Yay!

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2A6zFv3SwE8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Wooooooo!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ozoYFCOwI04" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Linds said:
Yay! Yay! Yay! YAAAY!

I don't know why this trick excites me so much but it does and it's my favorite that I've taught Traveler and now Didgie knows it too. Yay!
Click to expand...

OMG she is so cute!

*must teach to Finny and Limit*
 
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