The virginia Massacre
- Thread starter mrose_s
- Start date
Interesting point!!!
And the gun debate, while I stick to my guns (boom boom) on that,was more of a side line, and not really concentrating on the matter at hand - the massacre.
These are children (practically) killing their own peers... That is VERY unusual - and why we are all so shocked by it.
It's not so called "terrorists" out to get revenge on the world, or get power or anything LIKE that.
It is "normal" (though there is no such word really) kids.
What has gone so wrong in society that someone would or could do that?
And again, why does this seem to happen in the US more than anywhere else (and I can tell you, there are problems aplenty here...)
And the gun debate, while I stick to my guns (boom boom) on that,was more of a side line, and not really concentrating on the matter at hand - the massacre.
These are children (practically) killing their own peers... That is VERY unusual - and why we are all so shocked by it.
It's not so called "terrorists" out to get revenge on the world, or get power or anything LIKE that.
It is "normal" (though there is no such word really) kids.
What has gone so wrong in society that someone would or could do that?
And again, why does this seem to happen in the US more than anywhere else (and I can tell you, there are problems aplenty here...)
If I remember correctly there were some statistics on crime rates in Washington DC (where guns are banned) vs some other town where they weren't. It was roughly the same size (I think it may have been New York or something) but it had a much lower gun crime rate. Why? Because the people with the guns had to pick and choose their targets knowing some of them could be armed rather than being able to pick ANYONE and know they were helpless.
In fact, I think it was posted on this board in a similar topic. Maybe someone with a better memory than I can dig it out.
In fact, I think it was posted on this board in a similar topic. Maybe someone with a better memory than I can dig it out.
I feel horrible for those kids and their parents.I have zero compassion for this brutal pig who did this. I know people who have been abused mentally and physically and they dont go and shoot people at point blank range You are responsible for your own life and your own self being, so anyone that felt like him should have got help , not turn around and kill innocent people. I would never have felt any compassion for this man, he should have just killed himself and left everyone else alone..
Andrea
Ok I finally read from page 5 to 13 (ya'll post too fast).
And what's wrong with that? No one's going to kill you for saying something controversial. If they did they'd have other people killing them. It's checks and balances, like the government.
You make it sound like the law of the gun would supercede the laws of the land. Like having a gun makes everyone go bat **** insane and we start mercilessly killing each other for no reason. There would still be laws, still be rights. It would still be illegal to murder someone, it would still be illegal to go vigilante on someone. But if someone goes "your money or your life" and another person sees it, they can do something about it other than "crap! I'm unarmed too! Gotta run!"
And Dizzy you're comparing the UK to the US? Isn't the UK essentially a large island? It'd be a lot harder to smuggle guns across the border in such a case because most guns don't work too well when wet unless ya'll just have a really crappy coast guard.
We have Canada and Mexico as neighbors to us via land. A lot of drugs come out of Mexico which increases crime in that sector. Guns just happen to be the weapon of choice. Ban guns and they'll move on to knives, then bats when knives are banned, then when bats are banned they'll just start pummeling each other with tire irons and wooden boards and what not.
Heh, you know what's funny? Neither will I.
And what's wrong with that? No one's going to kill you for saying something controversial. If they did they'd have other people killing them. It's checks and balances, like the government.
You make it sound like the law of the gun would supercede the laws of the land. Like having a gun makes everyone go bat **** insane and we start mercilessly killing each other for no reason. There would still be laws, still be rights. It would still be illegal to murder someone, it would still be illegal to go vigilante on someone. But if someone goes "your money or your life" and another person sees it, they can do something about it other than "crap! I'm unarmed too! Gotta run!"
And Dizzy you're comparing the UK to the US? Isn't the UK essentially a large island? It'd be a lot harder to smuggle guns across the border in such a case because most guns don't work too well when wet unless ya'll just have a really crappy coast guard.
We have Canada and Mexico as neighbors to us via land. A lot of drugs come out of Mexico which increases crime in that sector. Guns just happen to be the weapon of choice. Ban guns and they'll move on to knives, then bats when knives are banned, then when bats are banned they'll just start pummeling each other with tire irons and wooden boards and what not.
Heh, you know what's funny? Neither will I.
Dizzy..... What do you propose they do to "help" this guy.....
He was SENT by court order to a psychiatrist.... he was given anti depressents.... he didn't WANT to be helped.... you can't force him to be helped. It's not like no one tried to get him help. Have you read the articles about him? His roommates tried to help him.... his teachers tried to help him.... the school in general tried to help him.... he got a court order to get help.... what else could they have done? club him over the head... pin his eye lids open and force him to get help? You can't force anyone to get help that doesn't want it. He was able to convince the Dr's that he was well enough to function in society and was no longer a danger. This guy was a lot of things.... but stupid was not one of them.
It's easy to say what the right thing to do for this guy was when youw eren't the one that had to try to get him help... isn't it.
He was SENT by court order to a psychiatrist.... he was given anti depressents.... he didn't WANT to be helped.... you can't force him to be helped. It's not like no one tried to get him help. Have you read the articles about him? His roommates tried to help him.... his teachers tried to help him.... the school in general tried to help him.... he got a court order to get help.... what else could they have done? club him over the head... pin his eye lids open and force him to get help? You can't force anyone to get help that doesn't want it. He was able to convince the Dr's that he was well enough to function in society and was no longer a danger. This guy was a lot of things.... but stupid was not one of them.
It's easy to say what the right thing to do for this guy was when youw eren't the one that had to try to get him help... isn't it.
Me? Why is it up to me to think up all the solutions - I'm not the oracle
BUT - if he was deemed in 2005 to be a danger to himself and others, he should have been in contact with some form of agency.
If he is not cooperating, then no - he can not be helped.
BUT, if he was disturbed, which it sounds like he was - he CAN be sectioned under the mental health act.
Why wasn't he?
I have no idea about the US though.
BUT - if he was deemed in 2005 to be a danger to himself and others, he should have been in contact with some form of agency.
If he is not cooperating, then no - he can not be helped.
BUT, if he was disturbed, which it sounds like he was - he CAN be sectioned under the mental health act.
Why wasn't he?
I have no idea about the US though.
They can't just section you because they feel like it.
I should know more about it, but I can't remember (maybe I should read up on it a bit more..!!!!)!
I don't have sympathy for him, I do for the families and friends of those killed.
I am a curious person, and wonder what it is that pushes people to do these things. There is always a reason. People are blank canvases when they are born... He was a child once, a baby, a memory - what went wrong?
How can you help prevent it happening again?
I should know more about it, but I can't remember (maybe I should read up on it a bit more..!!!!)!
I don't have sympathy for him, I do for the families and friends of those killed.
I am a curious person, and wonder what it is that pushes people to do these things. There is always a reason. People are blank canvases when they are born... He was a child once, a baby, a memory - what went wrong?
How can you help prevent it happening again?
These quotes are as far as I gotten in the thread so Im gonna touch on these and finish the thread, as well as Dizzy's link for UKs crime numbers.
What you dont hear are the crimes that are stopped by a firearm. I meant to get the book "More Guns, less Crime", but didn't have time today. I am curious how the rest of your violent crimes stats add up. I have a feeling if you remove the gun crimes from the equation UKs stats are higher per capita, like Canadas, than USAs.
I have a feeling the state of MA has fewwer firearms the AK does. People do not become phyco because they own/carry a firearm, there is something else wrong with the people of Boston, your post even reads angry.
For example the Mat Su Valley has more fire arms than Anchorage, AKs biggest city, and yet the Mat Su has far fewwer gun crimes, as well as allomst noexsitant gang crime.
Well said.
I dont see how, she only posted the crime stats for firearms.
What you dont hear are the crimes that are stopped by a firearm. I meant to get the book "More Guns, less Crime", but didn't have time today. I am curious how the rest of your violent crimes stats add up. I have a feeling if you remove the gun crimes from the equation UKs stats are higher per capita, like Canadas, than USAs.
I have a feeling the state of MA has fewwer firearms the AK does. People do not become phyco because they own/carry a firearm, there is something else wrong with the people of Boston, your post even reads angry.
For example the Mat Su Valley has more fire arms than Anchorage, AKs biggest city, and yet the Mat Su has far fewwer gun crimes, as well as allomst noexsitant gang crime.
Well said.
I dont see how, she only posted the crime stats for firearms.
Not at all.
Look at the numbers! How can it be ruled out because your city has illegal gun crime?
Fact is, in a place where guns are available to every tom, dick and harry, there will be a huger percentage of dingbats, fruit loops and tim nice but dims to shoot someone.
I can tell you, most of the gun crime HERE will be with illegal guns.
I can also tell you gun crime is low, as in canada, because there IS such regulation with gun ownership.
It makes SENSE!
Look at the numbers! How can it be ruled out because your city has illegal gun crime?
Fact is, in a place where guns are available to every tom, dick and harry, there will be a huger percentage of dingbats, fruit loops and tim nice but dims to shoot someone.
I can tell you, most of the gun crime HERE will be with illegal guns.
I can also tell you gun crime is low, as in canada, because there IS such regulation with gun ownership.
It makes SENSE!
Canada is a great example of gun controll.
Arm RA's with guns? Who's to say the RA isn't mentally ill (It can be concealed, very well), who's to say they won't get drunk one night and start showing off, who's to say that someone won't break into that tiny little dorm room and steal the gun. The school has a responsibility to protect it's students. Period. It's not up to the RA's, teachers, janitors to protect the students. The administration should have acted swiftly and they didn't. They didn't know how, they didn't think it was a big deal, whatever. It was THEIR responsibility to protect those kids. Guns in general make me very nervous. A "mistake" with a gun is often fatal and too many people don't know how to properly handle them. If regular joe's are going to have fire arms then they should go through the same training that the police or military go through. I don't begrudge anyone protecting their families, but I do fear of what might happen with someone who is inexperienced.
But it isn't in the league of the US which has free guns for all pretty much....
Don't you think it would sky rocket, if the wannabe robber, who currently has no gun, and hasn't the sense to acquire one illegally can suddenly go out and buy one?
Drop the regulations and before you know it - EVERY wannbe criminal will have one, instead of just the hardcore criminals.
Just look at the fugures - do you want to be up there with the US?
Don't you think it would sky rocket, if the wannabe robber, who currently has no gun, and hasn't the sense to acquire one illegally can suddenly go out and buy one?
Drop the regulations and before you know it - EVERY wannbe criminal will have one, instead of just the hardcore criminals.
Just look at the fugures - do you want to be up there with the US?
Do you think a criminal is going to come into my home when I am better armed than them. My neighbors and I are very well armed and there is very little crime here. Not one of my law abiding neighbors in Anchorage had firearms and there was alot of crime.