Struggling With New Pup - Help!

[Logen Ninefingers]

Hey,

I've asked advice on here in the past and received some great tips that've really helped, so I thought I'd defer to the board's collective wisdom once again!

I have a labrador pup, five months old now, a real sweetheart. Both my partner and I really adore her, because when she's good (post-exercise, night time), she's really good, but when she's bad, she's a terror!

There are a few problems I've noted, and tried (and failed) to remedy:

Biting. When being playful or mischievous, she likes to bite. I know she's not trying to hurt me or my partner when she does this, but sometimes it does bloody hurt. Since we got her at 8 weeks, she's done this, and I was told she would "grow out of it". She hasn't yet.

If she bites, I'll say, sternly, "No biting." If she bites again after that, I put her in a crate for a short (couple of mins) time out. This doesn't work at all.

Pulling. When on a leash, she pulls like mad. I suspect this may be to do with me training her off-leash first. We live in the countryside, so she's more off-leash than on. There are streets nearby that we walk on, and I'd like to have her walk calmly, instead of trying to drag me to where we're going.

When she pulls, I've tried stopping dead in my tracks and waiting for her to calm down. This doesn't work, she just waits it out. I've also tried rewarding her for walking well, however, once she's been rewarded, she goes back to pulling.

Ignoring commands. I don't expect her to listen to every command I give, but it seems like she only really listens when she knows there's a treat for her.

Example: I let her outside to do her business. After she's been out a while, I call her in. She'll completely ignore me until I ruffle the treat pack - then she'll come bolting in with her best "good girl" expression.

I know she's only young and has a lot of learning to do, but I really think I'm lacking the tools (knowledge) to correct her, which is why I'd love to hear how you guys do things, and how you guys would go about training my girl if you were me.

Appreciate any advice you can give!

 

[gapeach]

When our dog was a puppy and nipping I found this advice...as soon as she bites yelp loudly like another puppy would then turn your back and completely ignore her. This worked for us.
With the pulling...try to really tire her out off leash before working with her on leash. Also when I trained Gracie, every time she would pull I changed directions quickly. Try rewarding her with only praise, a little "good girl" instead of exciting her.

With recall...stop rattling the bag. Keep the treat in your hand. After she realizes the treat is in your hand she won't know if you have one or not until she has come.

Or practice this....have your partner hold her collar and just call her a short distance,acrossed the room even, when she comes to you give lots of praise/affection. Make it fun for her to come without a treat,just attention. Gradually add distance.

I'm sure others here have much more professional advice, I just know what worked for us.

 

[krissy]

Hey,

Ignoring commands. I don't expect her to listen to every command I give, but it seems like she only really listens when she knows there's a treat for her.

Example: I let her outside to do her business. After she's been out a while, I call her in. She'll completely ignore me until I ruffle the treat pack - then she'll come bolting in with her best "good girl" expression.

I know she's only young and has a lot of learning to do, but I really think I'm lacking the tools (knowledge) to correct her, which is why I'd love to hear how you guys do things, and how you guys would go about training my girl if you were me.

Appreciate any advice you can give!

I am not a professional trainer. I'm just someone who trains her dogs. And I have only raised one puppy. But that having been said, IMHO, part of your problem is in that one statement (in red). If you do not expect and enforce all commands that you give... how is the dog to know which commands are okay to ignore and which ones you actually expect her to obey? Easier for the dog if she just understands that you expect her to obey every command. Being realistic of course we all realize that sometimes our dogs are going to ignore us for some reason or another... but that doesn't mean you expect it or accept it. Training is life long. Give the dog a break and a perfect recall will deteriorate pretty quickly unless it is enforced and rewarded throughout the dog's life.

Give the command. Give it once and then enforce it. For a recall that means go get the puppy. Better yet, keep her on a long line so if she ignores you, you can just gently reel her in. If you are asking for a stay and she ignores you, put her back where she was.

 

[Logen Ninefingers]

I am not a professional trainer. I'm just someone who trains her dogs. And I have only raised one puppy. But that having been said, IMHO, part of your problem is in that one statement (in red). If you do not expect and enforce all commands that you give... how is the dog to know which commands are okay to ignore and which ones you actually expect her to obey? Easier for the dog if she just understands that you expect her to obey every command. Being realistic of course we all realize that sometimes our dogs are going to ignore us for some reason or another... but that doesn't mean you expect it or accept it. Training is life long. Give the dog a break and a perfect recall will deteriorate pretty quickly unless it is enforced and rewarded throughout the dog's life.

Give the command. Give it once and then enforce it. For a recall that means go get the puppy. Better yet, keep her on a long line so if she ignores you, you can just gently reel her in. If you are asking for a stay and she ignores you, put her back where she was.

C'mon, you know what I meant. Of course, when I give her a command, I want her to obey it (otherwise, I wouldn't give it), but because of her age, it'd be unrealistic of me to expect 100% obedience (she's still learning).

I've recently invested in a long leash (the retractable sort), so reeling her in might be a good idea. I'll try that one. Thanks.

 

[Maxy24]

Biting. When being playful or mischievous, she likes to bite. I know she's not trying to hurt me or my partner when she does this, but sometimes it does bloody hurt. Since we got her at 8 weeks, she's done this, and I was told she would "grow out of it". She hasn't yet.

If she bites, I'll say, sternly, "No biting." If she bites again after that, I put her in a crate for a short (couple of mins) time out. This doesn't work at all.

What you are doing sounds good. I think time outs can sometimes take too long to implement for some dogs, it's not an immediate consequence and the dog might even enjoy the attention of being shuttled off to time out. Works great for some, not for others.
When you say no biting, you should be sure you immediately withdraw all attention (if you are not already doing this). My mom has the habit of shouting "ow!" if Tucker nips during play but not stopping play even for a few seconds. The dog needs some sort of consequence to be paired with the verbal correction so she learns what it means. If you are already doing that and she simply seems to be having a very hard time with controlling her mouth, you may want to teach her to grab a toy when she's feeling mouthy. The INSTANT you see she's starting to get frisky (preferably before she actually starts biting, but after is okay too) bring her to her toy box of simply a toy lying on the ground and try to encourage her to grab it. Once she does then you can start giving attention and playing with her. No playing until she grabs or at least attempts to grab a toy. This will hopefully teach her to grab a toy instead of grabbing you when she wants to play. This is how we stopped my dog from nipping when we came home. He'd get excited while greeting us and bite at our hands. Now he doesn't get any attention when we come home unless he grabs a toy first.

Pulling. When on a leash, she pulls like mad. I suspect this may be to do with me training her off-leash first. We live in the countryside, so she's more off-leash than on. There are streets nearby that we walk on, and I'd like to have her walk calmly, instead of trying to drag me to where we're going.

When she pulls, I've tried stopping dead in my tracks and waiting for her to calm down. This doesn't work, she just waits it out. I've also tried rewarding her for walking well, however, once she's been rewarded, she goes back to pulling.

What works for pulling is very dependent on the individual. For Tucker when he pulled I'd stop and walk backwards so he had to turn and walk towards me. I'd continue walking backwards until he had walked all the way back to my side, then I'd pause and make sure he stayed by my side (just to show he has some focus and control and isn't ready to bolt forward right away), then we'd proceed forward again. Naturally he'd immediately run back to the end anyway, it takes a lot of repetition and is one of the most frustrating things to train IMO. I also added in an EZ walk harness (front clipping) which helped immensely because it makes pulling less profitable for him. He's very good on leash now.

Ignoring commands. I don't expect her to listen to every command I give, but it seems like she only really listens when she knows there's a treat for her.

For now only give enforceable commands. So only ask for a come when she's on the long line and you can reel her in when she ignores you. Start practicing commands daily in the house, and not in training sessions (because she knows you have treats in training sessions). Instead have jars of treats in all of the main rooms of your house. Randomly during the day get your dog's attention and ask for a sit (or any easy command you think she's likely to follow). When she does it, immediately start praising as you go get a treat out of the nearby jar and give it to her. If she doesn't follow the command right away just wait her out. Body block her if she tries to walk away, just wait for that sit and then reward from the jar. The dog will learn that even if she doesn't see treats on you she'll still get rewarded. Make sure to practice a lot! Also try not to get into the habit of walking over to the jar before asking for the command, give the command from wherever you happen to be. So long as you start praising as soon as she follows the command, you can quickly walk to the nearest jar and not be rewarding too late. If not then you need more jars. Also make sure to bring treats on walks and ask for some commands along the way. Keep the treat in your pocket and don't reach for them until after she obeys. She's on leash so if she doesn't listen you can always just wait her out. Again, always start with the easiest or most enjoyable (for her) commands.


I hope some of that helps, keep us updated!

 

[*blackrose]

Along with the good advice already given, here is my two cents as well.

Biting.
Do you play wrestle with her at all? If so, stop. Abrams chews on us all of the time (and guests, when they go to pet him), because we play bitey face with him, and when Michael was home they would actually physically get down on the floor and wrestle like they were adolescent boys. He doesn't, however, hurt when he bites at you because he has good bite inhibition. He can literally grab my hand and chew on it and it doesn't hurt at all besides weird pressure.

If she nips at you and it hurts...LET HER KNOW. I am not above screaming, "OUCH!" like my entire leg just fell off if Abrams were to chomp on me and it actually hurt. If she is at all sensitive to your voice tone, that should make her think twice about the amount of pressure she is putting on you when she bites.

If she only gets really mouthy when she is excitable for one reason or another, I would advise teaching a "go get your toy!" command. I did this with my Collie mix when she was a pup, because she would nip and nip HARD when she got excited and she was easily overstimulated. When she would start to get excited, I'd shove a toy in her mouth and tell her to go get her toy! Then we'd proceed to play an awesome game with the toy. Any physical chewing on myself would cause to me to stop all interaction and leave the room for a few seconds. With some time, when she would start to get excited, she would actually seek out a toy and bring it to you instead of brombarding you with nips.


Pulling.
I am not above using a training device to teach loose leash walking. I've actually never had any success with the "be a tree" method - in my opinion, if a dog is THAT bad of a puller, the pulling itself is reinforcing, and no matter how long you stand there, he will just continue to pull. He knows he isn't getting anywhere, but pulling is FUN!

I have had success with switching directions abruptly when they start to pull so much you no longer exist. You immediately turn the opposite direction (quickly, mind you) and the dog self corrects and has to refocus on you to figure out where you are going. If he forges ahead with massive pulling again...rinse and repeat.

It is also hard for a dog to pull when he is focused on you. Abrams has amazing leash manners, because 95% of the time he is more concerned about what I am doing and where I am going than what is happening up ahead. I didn't teach him that, he's done that since he was 8 weeks old. Which is wonderful.

I've used a prong, a no pull harness, and a gentle leader on pullers before. Take your pup into Petsmart and try some different products, see how she responds and what you feel comfortable with using. They won't teach her not to pull in and of themselves, but they will make walks enjoyable in the meantime while you are working with her.

Also, side note: when Chloe was a pup and she would pull at the beginning of walks, it was because she wanted to GO. For the first 1/4 mile or so I'd run with her. She'd get that initial burst of excitable energy out and then she was much easier to work with on the rest of the walk and didn't pull nearly as bad.

Ignoring commands.
As others have said, only give enforceable commands. Vary what rewards you give. To most dogs, especially dogs that live and breathe food like retrievers do, a treat reward is THE BEST. Use that to your advantage, but also don't use it as the sole reward...then they expect it all of the time. Sometimes have it be a treat, then two treats, then a different treat, then a head rub, then a "run around like a loony" game, then a bit of a treat, then a game of fetch, then a belly scratch, then super special awesome happy praise, then....you get the idea.

You can also delay the reward. When Abrams was going throw a, "Not now, in a minute!" phase when I would let him out to potty, I started taking treats with me. I'd call him back and he'd immediately get a treat before coming indoors. Then he'd get a treat when he actually came inside. Then he'd get a treat when he came inside and waited nicely. Now he gets a treat when I feel like it. LOL

 

[Logen Ninefingers]

Thank you very much to everyone who's responded so far. Great, great advice! I'll be implementing some of the tips and will let you know my progress.

Thanks again!

 

[Elrohwen]

I second the advice to ask for simple behaviors with no treats around, and when she does it, go get a treat from a jar or cabinet. This made a huge difference with my pup. I can ask him to do things anywhere in the house, and if he does something great I make a big deal out of it and we run to the treat container together. At first I had little cups of kibble out in different rooms so I could reward quickly, but now I just keep treats in the kitchen and he knows we can go there to get his reward. Dogs need to learn that a reward is always possible, even if you don't have treats on you.

As for the biting, she *will* grow out of a lot of that, just maybe not as soon as you hope. Took my spaniel until 13 months to grow out of it. It probably didn't help that I don't mind mouthing in play, so he had to learn that you can mouth in play only if you follow the rules of being gentle and only doing it when I say. If you don't want your pup to mouth ever, then don't play any wrestling games. Also, 5 months is prime teething time, and too young for her to have really grown out of it yet, especially since she's a lab and they're notorious landsharks. I agree with the others to give a cue ("no bite" is fine, I use an ah-ah) and then stop all play and interaction. If she stops biting and settles down right away, you can start playing again, but if she bites again I would just stop playing altogether and walk away. Timeouts didn't work for my dog either because he liked the attention of being put in his crate, though they worked for my friends' dog.

Not pulling is tough and I can't claim that I've totally solved this one. I second the advice to try some alternative equipment, like a front clip harness, to make walks easier while you work on it. Google "Penalty Yards" and "Silky Leash" for two really good techniques. I think for some dogs this is something that takes a ton of really consistent work for the first couple years you have the dog - it's not something you're going to solve in a couple weeks or even a couple months. A lot of it is also about figuring out why the dog pulls and trying to fix that - some dogs pull because they just like pulling, others only pull when they're trying to get at squirrels or other dogs, some pull because they are sniffing something interesting, some just want to go faster. The best fixes for each of those issues could be slightly different I think.

 

[Logen Ninefingers]

It's been a few months now and I just wanted to follow up with you guys. The advice given in this thread has definitely made a difference. Our girl's almost nine months old now and is a lot more well behaved.

Biting. I use the "get your toy" command when she starts biting now and it works a treat. She's still mouthy during play sometimes but she seems to have learned not to bite too hard, so I don't mind that much any more.

Pulling. I wanted to see if I could train her to walk properly on a leash without the aid of equipment (halti, prong, harness, etc). I've been dreadfully unsuccessful. She pulls like a truck and every technique I've tried simply doesn't work.

However, on the way back from our walk, once she's had her fun and we're going home, she wonderful on the leash. She walks by my side and doesn't pull at all. This makes me think she just gets too excited to go out and wants to rush to get there, hence the pulling.

I will be investing in equipment of some sort because as she's gotten bigger, she's gotten stronger, and the persistent pulling is starting to hurt my shoulder.

Ignoring commands. This isn't fully resolved but the example I gave in my original post has been corrected. When she's outside and I want her to come in, she now listens, which is great.

I wanted to ask advice on something that she's recently started doing:

Her hunting instincts seemed to have really kicked in (she caught me a pheasant the other day - just ran into the bush and got it, I didn't even have to shoot the thing)...

... But this means when I let her off leash she now runs really far ahead. She always comes back of course, but I don't like this and don't know exactly how to correct the behaviour. She's always looking for something to chase and forgets about me.

In fact, her recall, which used to be incredible (I trained her off leash before on leash from day 1), is suffering. She no longer responds to my "here" command 100% of the time. She will ignore it for a while then come at her own pace or just pay me no attention when she's in "hunting mode".

What should I be doing to correct this?

 

[*blackrose]

Pulling. I wanted to see if I could train her to walk properly on a leash without the aid of equipment (halti, prong, harness, etc). I've been dreadfully unsuccessful. She pulls like a truck and every technique I've tried simply doesn't work.

However, on the way back from our walk, once she's had her fun and we're going home, she wonderful on the leash. She walks by my side and doesn't pull at all. This makes me think she just gets too excited to go out and wants to rush to get there, hence the pulling.

I will be investing in equipment of some sort because as she's gotten bigger, she's gotten stronger, and the persistent pulling is starting to hurt my shoulder.

___________

Her hunting instincts seemed to have really kicked in (she caught me a pheasant the other day - just ran into the bush and got it, I didn't even have to shoot the thing)...

... But this means when I let her off leash she now runs really far ahead. She always comes back of course, but I don't like this and don't know exactly how to correct the behaviour. She's always looking for something to chase and forgets about me.

In fact, her recall, which used to be incredible (I trained her off leash before on leash from day 1), is suffering. She no longer responds to my "here" command 100% of the time. She will ignore it for a while then come at her own pace or just pay me no attention when she's in "hunting mode".

What should I be doing to correct this?

For the pulling, especially if she is only pulling because she is so excited, you could try a management technique. Aka, it's not really going to teach your dog to not do it...but it may stop her from pulling while you do it, if that makes sense. LOL Chloe, my collie mix, would PULL when we first started walks, to the point she'd choke herself. I ended up just using a prong on her to make walks more bearable for me, but when we first started our walk I would RUN. She was raring to go, so why not go? We'd run the first 1/8 mile (I was sprinting as fast as I could) and then when we got to our main route we'd slow to a jog, then fast walk and continue on. Since she got the sprint out of her system, she walked quite well for the rest of the walk. I don't know if that is an option for you, but you could try it and see what happens! Just don't let her pull you while your sprinting or you'll probably fall on your face.

As for the recall...there are a few ways to train it, one of which is controversial because it uses an e-collar. It is up to you (and/or perhaps a qualified, experienced trainer) to decide what you are comfortable with and what you feel would be most effective for your dog.

Either way, the fact that she is blowing off your recall means you've moved too far too fast and additional training is needed. Just because she recalls 100% in low distraction environments does not mean she will recall in high distraction environments (like when prey is around).

These are two good links on utilizing a long line for training come:
http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/sue-mccabe/why-training-recall-so-difficult-dog-owners
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/11_12/features/Teaching-a-Reliable-Recall_16085-1.html

If you think an e-collar may be an alternative for you...check out this site:
http://www.loucastle.com/recall

 

[Elrohwen]

Check out the thread I posted on recalls a few months ago: http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263455

My boy was off leash all the time until 9 months old when he just stopped listening. Like your pup, he wants to hunt and is driven to hunt and doesn't always respond when he's in the zone.

Basically, what I finally figured out is that he has to have impulse control around scents and wildlife *on leash* before he is ever going to have a good recall. His recalls were great in set up situations (in obedience class, or when my husband and I would practice calling him back and forth in our field) but in real life he just didn't have the impulse control to be able to leave things he found super interesting. For now he's on a long line all the time and through the walk we practice impulse control and reorienting to me when I ask, and he's rewarding with being allowed to sniff more (or sometimes with treats). If he's a bit tired and being very engaged with me, I will drop the long line and let him drag it, while playing lots of recall games. One that works especially well is to call him and then hide behind a tree or something - if I just call he might look back and then keep doing what he's doing, but if he looks back and I'm not there he feels compelled to find me. Finally, we started working with a whistle, which seems to get through to his brain better than a verbal cue (I still work on both).

He was pretty awful from 9-18 months, but has improved a bit since then. I still don't trust him off leash, but he is better and I trust his recall more in low distraction situations (no deer or other dogs around). It will just take time and maturity. We've also started agility and while his main issue is running off to check out other dogs, I do think it's helped him realize that he can be off leash and still listen to me (though he would have been a disaster in agility at 9 months old, so I'm glad I waited a bit)