State Prison Dogs

BigDog2191

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#1
Don't state prisons have strict rules about where their dogs come from?

Meaning the dogs should have good temperament, bloodlines, etc.?

Because my breeder had 4 of his dogs go to Angola state prison... it's a pretty well-known prison here and someone had told me that they usually have strict standards.

Now, I'm not sure if my breeder is a good one or not... some things lead me to say yes, somethings lead me to say no... but if he had 4 dogs go to the state prison obviously he fit some pretty strict requirements, right?

Thanks!
 

madeydog

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#2
prison pups

i live in ohio and the animal shelter the humane society had two puppies go to a prison program they were wild dogs that they caught there father and mother are mutts and still on the lose with three other puppys from the little all the prison looks for is health and attention so they can assess if they can be trained and they took these two puppies who when they came to the shelter had never been around people so I don't think their standards are two strick just want dogs to train for handicap people or for other purposes.
 

Julie

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#3
BigDog,
Are you referring to dogs that work at the prisons or dogs being trained by prisoners for pets or other service work??

The trainer that trained Rocket is very popular around here for law enforcement training. He doesn't breed most of the dogs he trains. And when he looks for a dog to start training for bomb, drug, apprehension, he looks for the right qualities in a particular dog. He says it doesn't matter to him if it is a purebred or not. He has trained shelter dogs into drug dogs, and registered dogs into drug dogs. I think apprehension training is best performed by certain breeds like shepherds, malinios, etc.

I don't know about strict rules that state prisons may or may not have, but I would still be proud of the fact that your breeder is serious about the dogs he breeds. Does he do the training too?
 

panzer426

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#6
most american prisons use german shepherds, the other most common but less commonly than gsd's are malinois, dobermans, rottweilers. I'd guess that probably 95%+ of the prison guard/police dogs are gsd's.
most prisons have the same standards for selecting dogs as the state police in whichever state the prison is in. a lot of prisons get there dogs the same way a lot of law enforcement agencies get theirs, imports germany and belgium.
now these are state and federal prisons I am talking about, actually fed prisons have higher standards. they are state and/or federally funded and have to follow the guidelines set down by the state and/or federal government concerning quality, training and selection of law enforcement dogs.
city prisons and privately run prisons...no clue what the standards are.
many prisons, mostly federal, some state, few city/county do adopt stray dogs and allow prisoners to train in various fields. I know atleast one in texas allows prisoners to train dogs in herding and agility. I doubt if they are allowed to train in schutzhund or personal protection though.
it is allowed because it raises the moral of prisoners and makes them less likely to cause trouble while in prison. it gives them a sense of purpose and lowers the likely hood that they will commit a crime again after release. and it gives them a skill which they can put to good use after release.
 

bubbatd

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#7
Nice article, Big. Our women's prison here train dogs to be service dogs....very successful program.
 

Dixie

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#8
I've heard of many LEOs importing their protection dogs from Europe because Europe is not concerned with looks, but more concerned with brains, thus they produce high quality working dogs.

Ive not yet heard of an American bred Malinois or German Shep show dog successfully produce a litter of working pups.

As for drug detection, bomb detection, they use the "sniffier" breeds such as pointing labs (that point when theyve found what theyre looking for), beagles, hounds, and other "sniffy" breeds that have a very reliable nose.

-Dix
 

sheps4me

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#9
Dixie said:
I've heard of many LEOs importing their protection dogs from Europe because Europe is not concerned with looks, but more concerned with brains, thus they produce high quality working dogs.

Ive not yet heard of an American bred Malinois or German Shep show dog successfully produce a litter of working pups.

As for drug detection, bomb detection, they use the "sniffier" breeds such as pointing labs (that point when theyve found what theyre looking for), beagles, hounds, and other "sniffy" breeds that have a very reliable nose.

-Dix
I agree that you're not going to get a high number of working pups from German show lines but there are a few Malinois breeders in North America who are producing high quality working lines. But then, the breed hasn't been divided into work and show lines to the degree that it has in the German shepherd world.
 

Saje

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#10
This is the breeder that treated Rocky so badly? :( I don't like him.
 

DanL

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#11
A guy I know is a LEO K9 handler, and he's had 2 Malinois. His 1st one had to be put down after a stick went up his nose on a pursuit, they couldn't operate or retrieve it. His 2nd has over 150 apprehensions in the last 2 years. Both dogs were imported from Europe, and then fine tuned by a trainer here, then given additional training with the handler.
 

panzer426

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#12
most US LEO, Prison, and military dogs are german shepherds, and a lot of malinois but not as many as gsd's. almost all, if not all, are european imports. though that includes pups born from european imports parents, grandparents, etc.
there are actually quite a few working quality dogs born from german showlines. Gucci is currently the #1 working gsd in north america and he is pure german showlines. of course you are more likely to produce better working quality dogs from working line dogs, and show dogs from showlines. there is ahuge difference between german working and german showlines, but compared to american and canadian line gsd's there is almost no difference between working and showling european gsd's.
most import from europe because american show breeders are concerned with appearance which does not meet the gsd standards. there are an extremely few american bloodline gsd's that have 1/2 the working ability of mid quality european gsd's.
malinois are growing in popularity in the US among LEO and Military, but the gsd is still on top. I imagine the gsd will probably always be on top. they are larger and more intimidating for one thing. The malinois started being used by leo agencies because gsd's had a serious hip and elbow problem. this has pretty much been taken care of (not saying hip displasia is not found in gsd's anymore) because leo's began importing higher quality dogs.
when I was 5 years old my dad adopted a 2 year old gsd mix from a woman he worked with. the dog had lived its 2 years tied to a post of her deck with no training or socialization. he was not dangerous, except that he was not obedient at all. my dad obedience trained him very well but the dog could never be trusted off leash...turn around for 1/2 a second and he was gone. he would jump his 7 foot fence and disappear. a friend of my dads was on the local police force and knew a officer who was looking for a canine partner. that officer adopted our gsd mix to be a police dog.
neat story but that doesnt happen anymore because they pay large but very fair prices for very high quality dogs, high qaulity temperament, high quality health, high quality wokring ability. they arent buying dogs to be uncontrollable viscious killers (incase anybody reading this now or in the future doesnt know that), they NEED the dogs to be very self assured and under complete control at all times. not just controlled on leash or when they command the dog to bite, but 100% control when they tell the dog to release a bite/stop an attack.
 

BigDog2191

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#13
Saje said:
This is the breeder that treated Rocky so badly? :( I don't like him.
Saje, that's something that's really unknown. I don't know that he did that-- in fact, he said the dogs got along great which was a big surprise. If they got along great they had to be together, so there's a great possibility he could've gotten into a scuffle with one of the dogs.

It had been a stressfull week for both me AND Rocky.

Trust me, Saje, if you see him, his house, his DOGS even... there's no sign that he would be like that. I truly don't know what happened during the time he was there.

That's why I'm really confused. Normally, from what I hear, state prisons have strict rules on the dogs they get... if they got them from my breeder than that would most likely mean he was at least... a "good" breeder.

I researched Heidelberg, which is where Rocky's bloodline came from, and more and more... I'm starting to believe that I, being the novice owner I was, was the one that may have instigated the "bad behavior".

I'm not sure. That's why I'm asking these questions.
 

panzer426

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#15
angola is a state or federal prison isnt it? some reason I cant recall that fact. anyway...assuming they are state or federal then there was deffinetly one or two things that angola's board liked/likes about rockys breeder. if they are privately owned, county run etc then their standards MIGHT be substantially lower.
and Rockys behavior issues are almost certainly a combination of different things including possibly your novice training skills, he may have a predisposition to be testy/dominant etc, he may not have been properly socialized, and many other things. in the hands of a professional from the day you adopted him untill today he maybe could have become one of the most highly trained and obedient gsd's in the world.
considering he was your first dog and until recently you had no professional help I have to say you did an amazing job of raising/training him.
simple answer to the original question...from what you have told so far about your breeder and all I know about rocky, my impression is that your breeder is good. is he one of the top 10, 20 or 100 breeders in the country? I dont know enough to say. but is he a good, responsible breeder with good quality dogs from good quality bloodlines? certainly seems like it to me.
 

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