Rough-coated Rottie?

Zoom

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#1
A gorgeous German-line Rottie came in for grooming yesterday and he had a coat that was only slightly shorter than Sawyer's. The mom said that he was from a bitch straight out of Germany who was pregnant when she was imported, and she threw a litter in which all the males had this long hair. I guess he was a show dog; they kept him clipped to look like the standard coat, but quit showing when the judges quit putting him up because they could tell. He's been used for breeding already though and apparently throws smooth puppies.

Has anyone else heard of this factor before?
 
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RedyreRottweilers

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#2
Rottweilers can be long coated, or wire coated.

This is a DISQUALFYING FAULT in this breed. Anyone who would knowingly breed a dog with this sort of incorrect fault, or SHOW it after trimming to alter the length of the coat is, well....I shouldn't say that here.

Long coats are not that unusual. The gene associated with this in the Rottweiler has recently been isolated, so breeders with any questions about their lines can have their dog(s) tested to see if they carry it.
 

Zoom

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#3
I was hoping you'd see this thread. :)

I had the same thoughts as you, but kept them to myself in front of the client. The dog was awesome, had a beautiful temperment and decent structure as far as I could tell...but the long hair and some extra padding on his part was throwing off my eye.
 
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RedyreRottweilers

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#5
I'm not sure what your comment means, chinchow. A long coated Rottie can make a wonderful pet.

It is not a show dog, nor should it be used for breeding.
 

Dizzy

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#6
How would a long coat hinder a working rottie from it's original function?

Is there a REASON long-coat is a fault?

Or is it just plucked from the sky because of someones say-so?
 
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RedyreRottweilers

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#7
The breed standard states that long coats are a DQ. I go by the breed standard. To me it's sacred. The blueprint of my breed.

:D
 

Zoom

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#8
I can't say "for real" because I don't know that much about Rottie history, but just judging from it's original purpose as a working/drover dog, the longer-coat on this particular dog felt softer, more "open" which would detract from it's usefulness as a water-proof and low maitenence coat.
 

tempura tantrum

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#11
The longer coat would definitely be higher maintenance than the shorter coat. Historically I'm pretty sure people didn't feel the need to spend superfluous time beautifying their dogs or pulling burrs out of coats, ESPECIALLY when the short-coated version would be far less work.

At least in Shibas, we DQ "woollies" for the exact same reason Zoom mentioned- longer, "open" coats are NOT functional, and allow water to get closer to the skin. The result would be "pupsicles" which aren't very useful hunting dogs. ;)

The breed standard for Rotties is old enough that there is very likely a GOOD historical/functional reason behind DQing a long coat. The idea was probably not "plucked out of the sky by someone," Dizzy. :) Besides, allowing slight deviations because we think it's "cute" or "pretty" is sort of a slippery slope, isn't it? By the end people make so many changes based on what THEY like that you have an animal that does not resemble the original breed at ALL. And then the entire point is lost.

This is why Redyre would take her breed standard so seriously- and rightfully so.
 

Dizzy

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#12
But isn't that what they do anyway??

Look at how breeds have mutated over the years - bulldogs as one example - totally different dog to the the original working version.

And look at variations internationally between certain breeds. I have heard people on this very forum happily discuss how they prefer [insert country] bred [insert breed] dogs over others.

People do it every day - they interpret the breed standard as they see it - and we end up with total different dogs.
 

bubbatd

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#13
I agree with Redy . This is an established breed with a standard . Any disqualifying fault makes it only pet quality and not breedable .
 

tempura tantrum

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#14
Speaking from my own breed perspective- if you look between the countries, Shibas are pretty similar no matter where you go. We do a fair amount of importing between countries (I know people who have shipped to Italy, and Australia, and others who have received puppies from as far away as Japan and Demark). There are *some* regional differences, but they are regional differences from the country of ORIGIN, differences that were apparent 100s of years before Shibas had left Japan- and they all still represent a correct interpretation of the standard. A slightly different fill in the cheek, a sashio tail as compared to a makio tail- these do not make the dog any less FUNCTIONAL. This is what we call a difference in *style.* The differences are so minute, it's quite obvious they are the same BREED of dog.

NO breed is going to be SO cookie-cutter that you won't see ANY variation- but when we INTENTIONALLY vary from the same standard that ALL breed clubs share (and in case of the Rotties, I do believe that no matter WHAT nation you're in, it's fairly well agreed upon that a long coat is a DQ), is when you REALLY run into problems.

Once again, I'm not talking about different interpretations of the actual standard. There are different ways to interpret a standard- that doesn't necessarily make only ONE right, and all the rest wrong. There WILL be regional variations, and that is part of the REALITY of living in a world that does NOT make it easy to ship animals from country to country. What I am talking about is INTENTIONALLY breeding DISQUALIFICATIONS. Things that are universally agreed upon as being INCORRECT. Not "a little less favored," but point blank WRONG and detrimental. You won't see anyone worth their salt breeding "teacup" Chihuahuas. Nor will you see good breeders breeding a blue merle Aussie bitch to a blue merle Aussie stud. Nor will you see good breeders intentionally breeding white Shibas.

I'm not saying that what you're talking about DOESN'T happen- of course it does. Humans are not infallible, and there are a lot of people out there that will "talk the standard" until the cows come home, and then fail to see that they aren't breeding to it. What I'm trying to get across is that it makes NO sense to use this as an excuse to deviate even FURTHER from the standard. To intentionally breed for things that breed clubs nations apart AGREE make NO SENSE.
 

chinchow

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#15
Though it's in the breed standard as a disqualification, it doesn't mean much to people with working dogs. As most breed standards don't these days.

Goes with my breed as well. But it's just me, I like the coated Rotties :) I wouldn't seek out someone who bred them, but wouldn't have a problem buying or adopting one at all.
 

Toller_08

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#16
I like long coated Rottweilers, simply because I love most any dog with long hair. That being said, I do not agree at all with breeding them as it does affect their ability to work depending on the job. If someone was using a droving Rottweiler on a farm, they definitely wouldn't want a long coated one. They tend to get cold a lot quicker (as their coats aren't as thick and close lying) and they are also no longer an easy maintenance dog as far as coat goes. Morgan, and all of my past Rottweilers (all of whom had the standard, short coat) could sit in the snow and wind for hours on end if we let them. They didn't/don't get cold at all as their coats didn't let any of the wind and cold in. The one long coated Rottie I know could never in her life sit outside for as long as mine could/can. I'm sure it affects them in other ways aswell, but for those of you who are saying that "the standard doesn't mean anything to people with working dogs"...as far as coat is concerned in this particular breed, it means a whole lot.
 

chinchow

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#17
I've seen coated Rotties work. So I'll go on my personal experience.

There's a lot of variations in a lot of the working breeds that work on large stock, herding, droving, whatever. My breed included. I've never seen coat type to affect any working ability.

Again, going on personal experience.
 
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RedyreRottweilers

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#18
I'm curious how many working Rottweilers you have seen with long coats?

I've been in this breed since 1988 and have only ever seen 2 personally, and they were not working dogs.
 

chinchow

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#19
Coated Rotties are not rare. And there's actually a good number in shelters, probably due to breeders "culling" them in their own way out of the litters.

I have seen a couple of coated Rotties, and more than enough of the standard bred Rottie as well. I can't say anything about the two you saw, except that it's uncommon to see any Rottie as a working dog anymore, for it's original purpose anyhow. I doubt it had anything to do with their coat type.
 

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