Quirky Housebreaking Problem

[Laverne]

We are having difficulty housebreaking my 12-week-old Yorkie. He was kept in a kennel before we got him and had not had any housetraining at all, prior to coming home with us. We've had him for a week, and he still has at least 1-2 accidents a day indoors.

The weird thing about training him, however, is not that he does not go outside. He does, every single time we go out with him. He has gone outside literally every time we have taken him out since day 2. He knows to go outside.

He does not, however, know that he can't go inside. We know he can hold his bladder, because he lasts all night, every night. We haven't had a single accident at night. He held it for 8 hours one night with no problems. We consistently take him out after eating, playing, and before crating him. He holds it in his crate most of the time, but sometimes he'll be in his crate and within ten minutes of having gone outside he'll go in the crate. We keep having the problem of him urinating indoors while playing or eating within a half-hour of having gone outside.

Is he doing it on purpose? We haven't been punishing him for going indoors because everything we've read has suggested that punishment will make him harder to train. I don't think I buy this anymore, though. He goes outside. Shouldn't we punish him when he goes inside so that he knows it is bad? We seem to have a weird set of circumstances that we can't find any suggestions for anywhere.

Thanks!

 

[hbwright]

At 12 weeks it's not unusual for him to still have inside accidents. At that age it is best to not ever leave alone (unless crated) and when you catch him in the act, say your no-no word (ah-ah, etc.) and then take outside quickly.

As far as the crate, is it too big for him? Some will urinate or poop from frustration, fear, etc. Mine would get diarrhea from nerves EVERY time we left him in there for the first couple weeks. Make sure it is not too big and if it is then partition part of it off.

Holding his bladder for 8 hours at night is different then holding it while active in the home during the day.

Consistancy will get him there quickly. It sounds like y'all are doing a great job already.

 

[Laverne]

We haven't been verbally chastizing him for having accidents because everything I've read has said that that will only make him worse. However, we have been verbally chastizing him for chewing on things he shouldn't, and he has almost completely stopped, so we will start chastizing him for going inside, despite what I've read. I did think it was weird to not tell him no if we caught him going inside.

Also, he does always go in front of us because we never leave him alone uncrated and we grab him and take him outside immediately, but it hasn't really helped.

I don't think the crate is too big. I bought the smallest crate they had, since he's a yorkie, and it seems to fit him perfectly.

The really weird part is that he'll go outside (we take him out probably 10 times over the course of the day) and then come back inside and have an accident 15 minutes later, even though he just went. Is that fear/frustration? How do we cope with that?

 

[Saje]

If his crate is big enough to 'get away' from any mess he makes then it's too big. If that's the base you might want to consider getting him a divider.

It does sound like you are doing everything right and you just have a dog with 'dirty puppy' syndrome. He learned to go in his kennel at a young age and that's hard to fix. That, plus his young age, are going to work against you.

Definitely don't start punishing him verbally (or otherwise!) for going in the house. Your first instincts were right on this. If you catch him in the act do something to distract him (clap your hands, throw your keys on the floor) and take him right out.

It would probably be a good idea if you kept a journal of all that goes into him (food, water, treats...) and everything that comes out (you know...) with dates and times. You might actually start to see a pattern on when these 'accidents' occur.

Also, it might help to know what you are cleaning up the messes with. You want to be sure you are eliminating all smells by dog standards.

Hope that helps.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

You should be preventing indoor accidents. "chastizing" the dog for eliminating inside will teach him to hide when he has to do it.

A much more productive method is to reward the dog for all outdoor elimination. I use food rewards. While you are waiting outside with the dog for him to go, keep an eye on him. As he begins to eliminate, name the behavior. I say "go pee pee" or "go poop" while the dog is eliminating. As SOON as he is done, pop the treat in his mouth, better yet several, and praise him joyfully.

Meantime, use your crate to your advantage, along with baby gates, or tethering the pup to your waist to help prevent accidents.

12 weeks is VERY YOUNG for a yorkie. It is unrealistic to expect MOST puppies of any breed to be fully housetrained at 12 weeks, but especially unlikely in the toy breeds.

Manage the pup so accidents are minimized, handsomely reward all outdoor elimination, and name the behavior so the puppy will later understand when you go out what "go pee pee" means.

 

[Laverne]

Definitely don't start punishing him verbally (or otherwise!) for going in the house.

I understand why I shouldn't aggressively scream at him or hit him. Of course no one should make their dog afraid of them. What I don't understand is how he's going to learn that he shouldn't go in the house if I don't offer negative reinforcement. The weird thing about housebreaking him has been that he always goes outside, no matter what. I think that the positive reinforcement has taught him that we like it when he goes outside. I don't think that anything we've done (because we haven't done anything at all, other than grab him and take him out right away) has taught him that, not only do we like when he goes outside, we don't like it when he goes inside. Don't I need to verbally chastize him to let him know?

We have been firmly telling him no for chewing, and he learned very quickly that he was only allowed to chew on his toys. Sometimes he gets distracted and goes to nibble on something else, but he stops very quickly if we say something and we've only had him a week.

I get how positive reinforcement can teach him to do something, like go outside. What I don't get is how he can stop manifesting a behaviour without negative reinforcement.

 

[StunnedMonkey]

Don't I need to verbally chastize him to let him know?

...

I get how positive reinforcement can teach him to do something, like go outside. What I don't get is how he can stop manifesting a behaviour without negative reinforcement.

While some may disagree, I always issue a stern (but not booming) "NO!" when I see Darby (also 12 weeks) starting to take a leak inside, and then I hustle her out. Like your pup, Darby clearly "gets" that going outside means doing your business, and she goes immediately every time. But there's that occasional "surprise" pee that comes 10 minutes later for some unknown reason. Darby is down to one accident every few days. Our longest stretch was 5 clean days.

Twelve weeks is too soon to panic. Just take the pup out consistently and offer praise as appropriate. Try your best to catch the signals, but I know with my pup she can suddenly stop, squat, pee, and move on all in under 2 or 3 seconds. You can have her leashed right next to you and there's no stopping that. I imagine it's the same for your pup. Don't sweat it.

Good luck. This too shall pass. Unfortunately, much of it passes on the carpet.

 

[hbwright]

I don't think that verbalizing no (or your ah-ah sound that I use) is verbally chastizing him. I think it is okay to tell him no when he squats and then remove to outdoors to finish the deed and reward, reward, reward.

 

[Laverne]

I don't think that verbalizing no (or your ah-ah sound that I use) is verbally chastizing him.

While some may disagree, I always issue a stern (but not booming) "NO!" when I see Darby (also 12 weeks) starting to take a leak inside, and then I hustle her out.

Thank you guys for telling me this. I was very concerned because everything I have read has said that I should only use positive reinforcement on our puppy, almost implying that if I scolded him in any way I would be some sort of terrible dog-abuser. I think I have misunderstood, however. Perhaps what was referred to as "verbal chastisement" meant yelling and screaming at the dog. What I interpreted verbal chastisement to be, however, is a stern warning. It seemed absurd and unfair to expect a puppy to know what I didn't want him to do without telling him. I'm going to start telling him no when he has an accident in the house. It was an odd idea to sit there and watch him do something I didn't like without letting him know I didn't like it.

 

[StunnedMonkey]

I'm going to start telling him no when he has an accident in the house. It was an odd idea to sit there and watch him do something I didn't like without letting him know I didn't like it.

I'm sure you already know this, but make sure you only verbally correct him when he's actually in the act of peeing. Even 5 seconds later and it's too late. Bite your tongue if you catch it after the fact.

Then again you probably shouldn't take advice from me. My pup pee'd on the kitchen floor about an hour after I typed my previous response to you. A clean three day run down the tubes. Guess we start over tomorrow.

See, you're not alone.

 

[Saje]

Like redyre said in her post, verbally chastizing your pup will teach him to hide it. He is very young. It takes time and patience

 

[Laverne]

Like redyre said in her post, verbally chastizing your pup will teach him to hide it. He is very young. It takes time and patience

If I constantly monitor him and he can't hide it because I'm watching him, will it be a problem? He never goes anywhere except his crate without constant supervision.

I'm concerned because all of my family's pets were housebroken well before this point, within about three days of coming home and most were younger. My grandfather did sternly reprimand his pets, and as I remember, it worked very well. I also realize that every time Winston goes in the house, it sets us back by letting him learn that he can go inside.

I don't want to psychologically damage him, but he doesn't seem offended by a stern no. I know he wants to learn to do whatever makes us happy, but I don't know how I can expect him to know what makes me happy without letting him know what makes us unhappy.

There seem to be two very different schools of thought when it comes to dog discipline, and I'm torn between the two. Removing all negative reinforcement doesn't make sense to me because it seems unfair to expect him to be able to read my mind. Can someone explain to me how and why it works exactly? Or how he develops the ability to know where not to go?

 

[StunnedMonkey]

There seem to be two very different schools of thought when it comes to dog discipline, and I'm torn between the two. Removing all negative reinforcement doesn't make sense to me because it seems unfair to expect him to be able to read my mind. Can someone explain to me how and why it works exactly? Or how he develops the ability to know where not to go?

All dogs are different, and what works for one may be ineffective for another. We all just need to figure out what works best for our own dogs. I personally feel that a moderate reprimand is required for MY pup when she squats at my feet and takes a leak on the rug. As I said previously, she clearly understands that I love it when she pees outside. We go out about every 30-45 minutes. She always does her business immediately and it's like a party afterwards. And she never messes her crate and holds it for about 7 hours overnight, so she's clearly got some level of bladder control. But, she seems to not get that peeing inside the house during the day is frowned upon. And unless I communicate that somehow, I don't see how she'd ever come to grasp it.

I dunno. Some dogs may just be more eager to please than others. Or maybe some are just morons.

 

[girlbuffalo1]

Yes all dogs are different for some if you sternly say "No" it may make them pee more out of fear and for some it makes them get the idea quick--it depends on the dog.

With Wrigley we always screamed NO loudly and took him out if we caught him in the act (not after as that is not effective) and it worked fine for us with him as he is a "harder" dog. With Honey if you were to yell no she would run dribbling pee the whole way and be scared--so we do not reprimand her at all.

Best of luck--the most important thing you can do is stare at them constantly!