Protection dogs
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Both of my dogs are in training for PP and PSA. Are you looking to get into actual personal protection or sport work? Many dogs who can do sport work (PSA, FR, MR, ScH) aren't cut out for PP. Though having a dog trained in any form of bitework requires the handler to have a higher awareness and respsonsibility of their dog, having a dog trained in actual PP is even more so.
Personally I adore the work and frankly don't mind the responsibility of it. The problem comes, especially in PP, in finding a good trainer. You need to find a trainer who actually understands dog behavior and doesn't want to make your dog aggressive, rather wants to figure out what turns your dog on. This is a VERY difficult thing to find. After emailing and/or visiting around 10 places within an hour and a half drive of me, I finally sucked it up and now drive 1.5 to 2.5 hours to train up in NH and ME (we switch up where we train) where I know the focus is on a social dog and where I also know that the decoys know how to work Bulldogs (since it is much different from working a herder, ESPECIALLY in the beginning stages). So if you have a GSD, a Mal, or a Dutchie you don't really have to worry about that part of it, but owning an "alternative" breed makes the already difficult search even more difficult.
Personally I adore the work and frankly don't mind the responsibility of it. The problem comes, especially in PP, in finding a good trainer. You need to find a trainer who actually understands dog behavior and doesn't want to make your dog aggressive, rather wants to figure out what turns your dog on. This is a VERY difficult thing to find. After emailing and/or visiting around 10 places within an hour and a half drive of me, I finally sucked it up and now drive 1.5 to 2.5 hours to train up in NH and ME (we switch up where we train) where I know the focus is on a social dog and where I also know that the decoys know how to work Bulldogs (since it is much different from working a herder, ESPECIALLY in the beginning stages). So if you have a GSD, a Mal, or a Dutchie you don't really have to worry about that part of it, but owning an "alternative" breed makes the already difficult search even more difficult.
I train my GSD in protection. It's been a fun experience for us. He's got some issues but my trainers are good and we're helping him get past them.
The only bad experience I had was with the 1st group I trained with. They had 2 trainers. One was real good, always learning, and was good with the dogs. He ended up getting bit bad by the other trainers dog, and wouldn't work any dogs after that. The other trainer was all ego and macho bravado. Once I learned enough that I started questioning why we were doing certain things, he didn't like it and kicked me out of the club. Practice what you preach- if you tell people you train with positive methods, and then I see you helicoptering your dog because he nipped at your hand when you wouldn't release him for a bite, I'm going to ask you about it.
The guys I'm with now are much better and give you a lot more feedback on how you and the dog are doing, and have a better game plan on what to work on and how to fix problems.
The only bad experience I had was with the 1st group I trained with. They had 2 trainers. One was real good, always learning, and was good with the dogs. He ended up getting bit bad by the other trainers dog, and wouldn't work any dogs after that. The other trainer was all ego and macho bravado. Once I learned enough that I started questioning why we were doing certain things, he didn't like it and kicked me out of the club. Practice what you preach- if you tell people you train with positive methods, and then I see you helicoptering your dog because he nipped at your hand when you wouldn't release him for a bite, I'm going to ask you about it.
The guys I'm with now are much better and give you a lot more feedback on how you and the dog are doing, and have a better game plan on what to work on and how to fix problems.
Dan, glad to hear you found good trainers to work with; this is so important.
I saw a trainer once say the pup that was there shouldn't be put in defense yet or it would do emotional harm. Well, the guy went on to put the pup in a crate, hit the crate, made noises, trying to put the pup into defense which it wouldn't do; so the guy says that pup is worthless. OK, what did you say you wouldn't do until the pup was a little older. Jerk in plain english!
I saw a trainer once say the pup that was there shouldn't be put in defense yet or it would do emotional harm. Well, the guy went on to put the pup in a crate, hit the crate, made noises, trying to put the pup into defense which it wouldn't do; so the guy says that pup is worthless. OK, what did you say you wouldn't do until the pup was a little older. Jerk in plain english!
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A herder has a lot of prey drive, so especially in the beginning they can come out and start really quickly, get into the game. Bulldogs tend not to have as much prey drive, work more in fight drive, and mature MUCH slower. Also because they work best in fight and/or defense you need to walk a fine line when first bringing the dog out as you don't want to put too much defense on a dog too fast, but so many trainers having only worked herders will go over the top with the defense once they find out that's what gets the dog to bite, and you end up with a problem on your hands.
Often times a trainer who has never worked a bulldog will wash the dog almost immediately if it isn't prey driven. I had a trainer tell me to get a "real dog" once (meaning a GSD), and won't he be biting his tongue once he sees us starting to compete next summer
Often times a trainer who has never worked a bulldog will wash the dog almost immediately if it isn't prey driven. I had a trainer tell me to get a "real dog" once (meaning a GSD), and won't he be biting his tongue once he sees us starting to compete next summer
There are "generalities" that can be made in training a bully breed over a herder, but it all comes down to the dog. and trainers aren't bad at training one breed over another if they know how to read dogs and illicit the behaviors they want. The reason most of them fail is because they've learned a set of actions and if those actions don't work for every dog, then the dog is "no good" when in reality it is their tools that are lacking. They haven't really learned to train a dog, just go thru motions.
My younger dog who is a herder, all gsd has insane prey drive and will chase anything to the point I could probably kill her with exhaustion. Getting her to do protection with prey movements results in passable work at best. She's gotten little bits of defense long before a lot of other dogs have, but it is a fine line. and necessary to bring out her best.
I've also had a few bully breeds that had lots of prey drive, easy to work with. And lots of dogs in between that have varying mixtures of prey/defense, good nerves, bad nerves, varying maturity rates and in lots of different breeds.
My younger dog who is a herder, all gsd has insane prey drive and will chase anything to the point I could probably kill her with exhaustion. Getting her to do protection with prey movements results in passable work at best. She's gotten little bits of defense long before a lot of other dogs have, but it is a fine line. and necessary to bring out her best.
I've also had a few bully breeds that had lots of prey drive, easy to work with. And lots of dogs in between that have varying mixtures of prey/defense, good nerves, bad nerves, varying maturity rates and in lots of different breeds.
S
So, I am going to assume APBTs would do well in protection work. They have very high pray drive, because they are terriers. But then there is the thing where they are not supposed to put their mouths on a human in an aggressive manner, EVER. Thats why its so controversial. But if trained properly, I dont see why they wouldn't do well. I'd bet they have one of the highest pray drives in any of the bully breeds.
I work my dog with a small group of people here in DE. It's a loose knit club with about 4-5 regulars and another 4-5 part timers. The decoys are very good and there is another guy who is great with looking at the dogs and how the handlers are doing. You always get feedback on your sessions and a game plan to follow.
They can and do well at the various protection sports i've seen them in. I only work them in prey though, not real aggression for a couple reasons. I do think a well balanced GSD is better. They can think and act, and they can switch drives easily between real aggression and realizing there is no threat and turning off, or they can just be playing or anything in between. That is for the good ones anyway, they aren't all good.
But with the "good" pit bulls i've seen they have more of a tenacity to them and once that real aggression is turned on, good f'ing luck turning it off again. So I just won't chance it because of the stigma they already have, and really I do protection sports for a sport and for fun. I don't use my dogs for protection, although i do feel better when my wife is home alone with the dogs, or when we are gone that nobody is going to come thru that door unwanted. But if I really felt threatened I would have a security system and a gun and my dogs would be coming with me. I advise others to do the same.
But with the "good" pit bulls i've seen they have more of a tenacity to them and once that real aggression is turned on, good f'ing luck turning it off again. So I just won't chance it because of the stigma they already have, and really I do protection sports for a sport and for fun. I don't use my dogs for protection, although i do feel better when my wife is home alone with the dogs, or when we are gone that nobody is going to come thru that door unwanted. But if I really felt threatened I would have a security system and a gun and my dogs would be coming with me. I advise others to do the same.