ohhh Oakley, hahah!
- Thread starter Dreeza
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I find it interesting in how people's concepts of "rudeness" differs. I find it exceedingly rude for people to post three pages of nonsense about candy on a thread that has nothing to do with that, just because they don't want to (or don't want anyone else to) continue the discussion. Why is a thread allowed to go so off-topic, when another thread would be stopped? There just doesn't seem to be a level of fairness at times in this forum.
Back to the real discussion. People talk about guard dogs and some seem to think that they don't have any responsibility to train or manage a dog that is a "guardian breed". In this day and age I think it's a huge mistake to have a dog that is not as reliable and safe as possible. This thread has been about a dog dropping into a back yard, and some people saying their dogs would have torn it up. What if it had been a five year old child falling into the yard? Would it be okay for dogs to attack because they're guard dogs? I really think that if you have a dog that is not reliable, then maybe even in your own back yard you should have it on a long line so that you have control in case of something happening.
I have German shepherds and chows - two breeds that are always high on the list of "dogs that bite" and BSL lists. If a dog or a child dropped into their fenced area they wouldn't attack. Now if the dog attacked THEM, I would expect they'd fight back in defense, but that dog would have to start it. It's a manner of training and socialization and to me it's part of my responsibility in owning dogs. Now if there were a threat - like someone attacking ME - I expect my dogs would come to the rescue. But a strange dog that is non-aggressive coming into my yard, or a child - these are not threats and my dogs should not act as though they are.
I'm glad to see there are others who take responsibility for proper training - and who agree that a properly trained dog IS reliable off-leash. My dogs don't go running up to people or other dogs. I was outside with the two shepherds for quite awhile tonight (it warmed clear up to 27F) and Trick was never on-leash. Tazer was on a long line. There's a road at the far side of the large parking lot and there was traffic. But Trick is so bonded to me that there's no need for her to even look that way. People walk by, dogs go by, she ignores them all because they don't matter. I'm what matters to her. And regardless of heart-wrenching stories of people who trusted their dogs and then their dogs ran off in front of a car, I'm not going to stop what I'm doing and put limits on the training I do. Pretty much ALL of the dogs that I've seen hit by cars were not properly trained. I saw a lot of them when I was a vet tech. And training doesn't stop when a dog learns a certain behavior - throughout the years that behavior is continually reinforced and kept fresh so that I don't run into a problem where my dog no longer feels the bond that we have.
It's so hard to explain this to people who have never had this relationship with a dog. I agree that most of you SHOULD keep your dogs on leash. From what you say, you don't have the right kind of interaction to have your dog be safe off-leash.
And by the way - my dogs are never off-leash outside without me being right there. Someone mentioned dogs running into people's yards and that's a pet peeve of mine too. It goes right back to the difference between a responsible person teaching their dog to be reliable and responsive off-leash, and a crappy owner who boots their dog out the front door so it can go poop in the neighbor's yard. I have one of those next to me here and I'm always chasing their dog out of the yard. I know when it's pooped because my dogs eat a very highly digestible diet and their dog apparently eats whatever is on sale - his poop is full of grains and is HUGE. This dog's owner shouldn't be allowed to have a dog, and this is the kind of dog I'm likely to see dead in the street one of these days.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
Back to the real discussion. People talk about guard dogs and some seem to think that they don't have any responsibility to train or manage a dog that is a "guardian breed". In this day and age I think it's a huge mistake to have a dog that is not as reliable and safe as possible. This thread has been about a dog dropping into a back yard, and some people saying their dogs would have torn it up. What if it had been a five year old child falling into the yard? Would it be okay for dogs to attack because they're guard dogs? I really think that if you have a dog that is not reliable, then maybe even in your own back yard you should have it on a long line so that you have control in case of something happening.
I have German shepherds and chows - two breeds that are always high on the list of "dogs that bite" and BSL lists. If a dog or a child dropped into their fenced area they wouldn't attack. Now if the dog attacked THEM, I would expect they'd fight back in defense, but that dog would have to start it. It's a manner of training and socialization and to me it's part of my responsibility in owning dogs. Now if there were a threat - like someone attacking ME - I expect my dogs would come to the rescue. But a strange dog that is non-aggressive coming into my yard, or a child - these are not threats and my dogs should not act as though they are.
I'm glad to see there are others who take responsibility for proper training - and who agree that a properly trained dog IS reliable off-leash. My dogs don't go running up to people or other dogs. I was outside with the two shepherds for quite awhile tonight (it warmed clear up to 27F) and Trick was never on-leash. Tazer was on a long line. There's a road at the far side of the large parking lot and there was traffic. But Trick is so bonded to me that there's no need for her to even look that way. People walk by, dogs go by, she ignores them all because they don't matter. I'm what matters to her. And regardless of heart-wrenching stories of people who trusted their dogs and then their dogs ran off in front of a car, I'm not going to stop what I'm doing and put limits on the training I do. Pretty much ALL of the dogs that I've seen hit by cars were not properly trained. I saw a lot of them when I was a vet tech. And training doesn't stop when a dog learns a certain behavior - throughout the years that behavior is continually reinforced and kept fresh so that I don't run into a problem where my dog no longer feels the bond that we have.
It's so hard to explain this to people who have never had this relationship with a dog. I agree that most of you SHOULD keep your dogs on leash. From what you say, you don't have the right kind of interaction to have your dog be safe off-leash.
And by the way - my dogs are never off-leash outside without me being right there. Someone mentioned dogs running into people's yards and that's a pet peeve of mine too. It goes right back to the difference between a responsible person teaching their dog to be reliable and responsive off-leash, and a crappy owner who boots their dog out the front door so it can go poop in the neighbor's yard. I have one of those next to me here and I'm always chasing their dog out of the yard. I know when it's pooped because my dogs eat a very highly digestible diet and their dog apparently eats whatever is on sale - his poop is full of grains and is HUGE. This dog's owner shouldn't be allowed to have a dog, and this is the kind of dog I'm likely to see dead in the street one of these days.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
A dog dropping in and a child dropping in is quite a difference. I know for a fact and would lay my life on the line that my dogs would NOT attack a child that dropped in. They would probably lick the child to death. A dog dropping in is a totally different story especially if it dropped in aggressive or hyped up like Oakley was. That would scare the sh!t out of my dogs and I think they would go on the defensive. Comparing children and dogs is like comparing apples and oranges. I have nieces and nephews from ages 2 through 11 and the 2 year old has authority over the dogs. The dogs know he is the boss and that the children are above them.
My Goldens LOVE children but I don't think they would feel the same way about a dog dropping in. I said earlier if the dog backed down and was not aggressive or hyped I doubt they would fight. You just have to keep in mind the state of mind Oakley was in. He was very hyped and it is possible that would set another dog off.
My Goldens LOVE children but I don't think they would feel the same way about a dog dropping in. I said earlier if the dog backed down and was not aggressive or hyped I doubt they would fight. You just have to keep in mind the state of mind Oakley was in. He was very hyped and it is possible that would set another dog off.
I feel that highly socialized dogs are well aware of the differences between an adult and a child. My neighbor's son Eli went through a phase in which he would sneak out of his own house, wander around outside and enter any house he got close to (talk about responsible "ownership" huh? I'dve put a GPS on that kid!)
Anyway, Eli liked our house and would come in. All the time. The first time he did it, Dakota was beside himself and came to get me. He led me to where Eli was sitting in one of our chairs, gave a low whine and stared at me as if to say "W..T...F?". As soon as I said hello to Eli, Dakota started wagging his tail and ran forward to say hi and give kisses. He didn't even bark when the kid came in, he knew an innocent child when he saw one.
Had it been an adult wandering into the house, I know for sure that they wouldn't have recieved such a docile greeting.
Anyway, Eli liked our house and would come in. All the time. The first time he did it, Dakota was beside himself and came to get me. He led me to where Eli was sitting in one of our chairs, gave a low whine and stared at me as if to say "W..T...F?". As soon as I said hello to Eli, Dakota started wagging his tail and ran forward to say hi and give kisses. He didn't even bark when the kid came in, he knew an innocent child when he saw one.
Had it been an adult wandering into the house, I know for sure that they wouldn't have recieved such a docile greeting.
Thanks, but RD & Labra already cleared that up for me.
I understand, but my opinions remain the same. Obviously yours do to, so just accept that some people don't like the idea of leaving 'guardian' (potentially vicious) dogs unsupervised-
Say you left your guard dog in your back yard but accidently left the garden gate open... Now how does that dog know where it's property ends and community property begins?
Could you imagine the consequences if someone was walking their dog on the path beside the property? Or if a kid wandered into the garden? I'm definitely not saying that dog aggressive dogs are people/kid aggressive (or have may have tendencies to show aggressive behaviour to children or people) too, but you have implied that one of your dogs is.
The majority of the time aggressive dogs are not needed to protect someone's property anyway, most people will be intimidated by either a dog that is barking at them a lot or simply a typical intimidating-looking dog (eg. Rottweiler- beautiful dogs but will put most people off going near the property.)
Oh and remember, this is a discussion, not a catfight.
And do you always classify differing opinions to yours as 'rude?'
It seems some people take pride in the fact their dog will rip another dog apart if it landed in their yard. Okay... Nice.
I understand, but my opinions remain the same. Obviously yours do to, so just accept that some people don't like the idea of leaving 'guardian' (potentially vicious) dogs unsupervised-
Say you left your guard dog in your back yard but accidently left the garden gate open... Now how does that dog know where it's property ends and community property begins?
Could you imagine the consequences if someone was walking their dog on the path beside the property? Or if a kid wandered into the garden? I'm definitely not saying that dog aggressive dogs are people/kid aggressive (or have may have tendencies to show aggressive behaviour to children or people) too, but you have implied that one of your dogs is.
The majority of the time aggressive dogs are not needed to protect someone's property anyway, most people will be intimidated by either a dog that is barking at them a lot or simply a typical intimidating-looking dog (eg. Rottweiler- beautiful dogs but will put most people off going near the property.)
Oh and remember, this is a discussion, not a catfight.
And do you always classify differing opinions to yours as 'rude?'
It seems some people take pride in the fact their dog will rip another dog apart if it landed in their yard. Okay... Nice.
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Say you left your guard dog in your back yard but accidently left the garden gate open... Now how does that dog know where it's property ends and community property begins?
Clearly you need to read the two threads, because I am a responsible dog owner and my gate is NEVER left open. Nor it is able to be opened from the outside. MY backyard, MY property. No one enters unwelcome.
The majority of the time aggressive dogs are not needed to protect someone's property
Aggressive dogs by whose standards? I don't own any aggressive dogs.
Oh and remember, this is a discussion, not a catfight.
And do you always classify differing opinions to yours as 'rude?'
It seems some people take pride in the fact their dog will rip another dog apart if it landed in their yard. Okay... Nice.
Clearly you need to read the two threads, because I am a responsible dog owner and my gate is NEVER left open. Nor it is able to be opened from the outside. MY backyard, MY property. No one enters unwelcome.
The majority of the time aggressive dogs are not needed to protect someone's property
Aggressive dogs by whose standards? I don't own any aggressive dogs.
Oh and remember, this is a discussion, not a catfight.
And do you always classify differing opinions to yours as 'rude?'
It seems some people take pride in the fact their dog will rip another dog apart if it landed in their yard. Okay... Nice.
I take pride in having well trained dogs and knowing that my dogs would protect their home against danger. MY yard, MY home. No one is welcome unless invited. I can't say that had Oakley dropped himself in my yard, that he would get ripped apart, but he'd be one scared pup.
What I can say, however, is that it is common sense.. to NOT approach a home with three large dogs, with signs posted, etc.. You come into my yard unwelcome and pose a threat, then my guard dog will do what she has been bred to do.
I'd try my best not to leave my garden gate open too, but accidents happen... I'm not perfect, neither are you. Plus i mean that hypothetically, some less-than-perfect owners may leave the gate open, not that thats a fault of their character, it could easily happen- it has nothing to do with being a responsibe dog owner.
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I should clarify, if a dog randomly plopped itself in my yard and attacked, my dogs would attack back, for sure. And that dog would lose. My dogs don't go randomly attacking animals, nor people. But a threat? Yes, most definitely. I'd rather they fight to protect themselves then not.
But seeing as though I have a 6 foot fence and I don't believe in aliens, I highly doubt a dog will suddenly find itself in my yard. Except for Molly, but the dogs know her.
But seeing as though I have a 6 foot fence and I don't believe in aliens, I highly doubt a dog will suddenly find itself in my yard. Except for Molly, but the dogs know her.
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While I agree that accidents happen and people are less than perfect, I can't afford to be irresponsible. My gate is ALWAYS closed and latched, ALWAYS. I know my dogs and having a guard dog, who I doubt would venture out of the yard, but I don't know for sure and who I know would not appreciate strange beings in her yard, I must keep my fence secured. It's not something that I can be frivolous about and it has everything to do with my being a responsible owner. It's one of the many things I must do in order to be responsible.