Juvies Tried As Adults?

[Meggie]

"Any child under the age of 16 who commits a violent crime should be put under psychiatric care, in a facility, until they're deemed mature and aware enough to be treated as an adult. Not a specific term, open ended sentence."

They do this in England, and it has created quite a stir in the past. Kids who have committed violent crimes have been released much earlier than if they had been handed regular criminal sentences in court. Case in point--the two boys who brutally murdered little James Bulger--they have already been released. However, that is an entire can of worms anyway--the one little boy was the ringleader, and he was determined to kill someone that day. He had originally asked another boy to accompany him, but that boy refused, so he chose a boy who was a known follower. The boys abducted the 2 yr old from the mall, took him to the railway tracks and beat him to death. The ringleader came from a dysfunctional family where each brother terrorized the next youngest in line. All the older boys were in prison for violent crimes, and it was only a matter of time before this boy was as well. His mom was a single mom who just threw up her hands and let it all happen.

Anyway, both boys committed essentially the same crime, however only one really had the intention and understanding of what he was doing. The other boy DID go along with it, and he is guilty too, but he was also too weak and afraid to refuse--should he be treated in the same light as the ringleader?

Either way, it is a sad, sad situation.

That is a very disturbing case. Being a "follower" is no excuse, there were plenty of opportunities for him to back out and he didn't. He participated in the torture and killing of that child.

Also, was it a case of being released upon rehabilitation, or because they reached the age considered to be "adult" there and they couldn't be held after that?

What I'm talking about is throwing out the "age" altogether. Either they're rehabilitated or not.

 

[SHADOW_THE_STAFF]

"Any child under the age of 16 who commits a violent crime should be put under psychiatric care, in a facility, until they're deemed mature and aware enough to be treated as an adult. Not a specific term, open ended sentence."

They do this in England, and it has created quite a stir in the past. Kids who have committed violent crimes have been released much earlier than if they had been handed regular criminal sentences in court. Case in point--the two boys who brutally murdered little James Bulger--they have already been released. However, that is an entire can of worms anyway--the one little boy was the ringleader, and he was determined to kill someone that day. He had originally asked another boy to accompany him, but that boy refused, so he chose a boy who was a known follower. The boys abducted the 2 yr old from the mall, took him to the railway tracks and beat him to death. The ringleader came from a dysfunctional family where each brother terrorized the next youngest in line. All the older boys were in prison for violent crimes, and it was only a matter of time before this boy was as well. His mom was a single mom who just threw up her hands and let it all happen.

Anyway, both boys committed essentially the same crime, however only one really had the intention and understanding of what he was doing. The other boy DID go along with it, and he is guilty too, but he was also too weak and afraid to refuse--should he be treated in the same light as the ringleader?

Either way, it is a sad, sad situation.

The Jamie Bulger boys should never have been realised, they should have rotted in Jail. Sorry that case was just horrific, they did a lot more than just beat the little boy to death. Anyone who can do that to a little child, should not be realised. Sorry, I feel VERY strongly about that case.

 

[LorriF]

That is a very disturbing case. Being a "follower" is no excuse, there were plenty of opportunities for him to back out and he didn't. He participated in the torture and killing of that child.

Also, was it a case of being released upon rehabilitation, or because they reached the age considered to be "adult" there and they couldn't be held after that?

What I'm talking about is throwing out the "age" altogether. Either they're rehabilitated or not.

My understanding of the case was that they were released upon rehabilitation--in England, I believe they are sentenced indefinitely. Of course, I could be wrong...time to go do some research!

The issue with the follower (which I agree does NOT excuse him from the crime, just pondering whether the two boys should be considered "equal") was that he was the type of boy who would do ANYTHING to be befriended in any way. He came from a good home, and had loving and attentive parents. Everyone was shocked at the crime he committed, and yet school officials were not as surprised that he was led into it.

 

[LorriF]

The Jamie Bulger boys should never have been realised, they should have rotted in Jail. Sorry that case was just horrific, they did a lot more than just beat the little boy to death. Anyone who can do that to a little child, should not be realised. Sorry, I feel VERY strongly about that case.

It truly was a disturbing case. I remember looking at pictures of that little guy and tearing up over the horror of it all. He was such a sweet and innocent little boy, and his poor mother just lost track of him for a second--which is nothing that I haven't done with my kids in a busy store! And yet look what it cost her. And the horror of two young boys doing it, rather than the faceless monster pedophile that most parents fear just makes it all that much worse.

 

[angela]

Juvies

I figured this would be a good area for me to talk about. I am in college, currently double-majoring in Criminal Justice and Spanish. There are a number of things wrong with our Criminal Justice system. Someone said that if the death penalty was used more often for more crimes this would deter people from committing the crimes. It wouldn't work. If a man went to rape a women, and the death penalty was a possible punishment, the man would be more likely to kill the woman. He's going to die either way, right? Might as well get rid of the witness. I think many of the punishments in the United States are not fair. For example, my uncle molested his twin daughters, and he was sentenced to 10 years. My dad fell behind on his child support and was sentenced to 7 years. My dad was paying his child support at the time he went to prison, but went due to a probation violation. I don't think juveniles should be placed in prison. In prison, they easily become enslaved to the older, tougher inmates. I saw a video where there was a black juvenile sentenced to a prison for some non-violent crime. He was separated from the adult inmates, as he had his own separate cell. Adult inmates, neo-Nazi i think, made it into his cell and beat him to death and then stuffed him underneath his bed. Prisons can be bad places. I wish we knew of a better way.

 

[rottiegirl]

I believe that teenagers should go to prison for violent crimes. If you comit the crime, you do the time. As far as capital punishment goes, I dont think that it is an easy way out. In prison, you get to watch tv, work out, visit your friends and family, and do other activities. Criminals would rather be in prison for the rest of their life than be put to death. Death is a scary thing.

 

[Sunnypup]

That is so true--well said! So many times it is the parents that have created these young offenders, and yet they throw up their hands and say "I don't know what to do with him, he is just bad". Yeah right--take a look at yourselves! Some people have no idea how to parent, and so many of these parents are too self-involved to even take notice of the trouble their kids are getting into.

The entire system needs a revision--not just another band-aid solution to pacify the public during an election year.

I guess my biggest point is there is no "good" way to deal with these kids yet. I think the key is starting young and recognizing the signs before they get that far. Oh, and whoever said about a case by case instance, I have a good example. I have a kid here, I've mentioned him before. He killed his mom when he was 12 and is 15 now. He says it was an accident and the only witnesses where his two younger sisters (currently 13 and 9 I think) who I imagine were scarred for life in that moment. The news story says he locked them in the tool shed. The kids, the dad and the boy all deny that. I guess if the dad can forgive his son for shooting and killing his wife, who am I not to huh? But back to my point. The Judge was up for re-election and the hot topic of the month was teen violence and cracking down harder on offenders. Guess who fit the bill to be set up as an example? He was put in adult prison for a few days AS A 12 YEAR OLD. Then another judge got ahold of the case and re-assesed his age and supposed circumstance, he told the same story every time, nothing ever changed so there was little reason to believe he was lying. By this time however the town was calling for blood so he got sent to a max. security placement for boys. He had to ask to do EVERYTHING and only saw his family once every other month. He's in our program as a "step down" back into society. He is by far the BEST kid in the house, genuine, sweet and loving. He is a little immature for a 15yr old but he spent the past 3 yrs around all boys with little social interaction with the outside world. He called to "check up" on us to see how we were doing while he spent time with his family. He called to ask last week if he could buy us anything while he was out. Seriously cute kid. If he had been locked up in prison until he was 18, his family would have never been able to stop grieving, he would have never grown into the person he is, and he would have never recieved the therapy he has. He is one of our "success stories" . He leaves in January if all goes well. He'll continue therapy but gets to go home. He has a chance at normal again. Oh, and his dad is "good people" so atleast there isn't that whole "bad seed" thing going on for him. I wish most of our kids could come out better then they went in, not just knowing how to play the system better. sigh.

 

[blue]

Sunny Im glad for the insight you have to give.

 

[Sunnypup]

thanks blue I'm glad I have some insight to give.I always hope to work with kids, and someday if the whole me having kids thing doesn't work out I would looooove to go work in this particular demographic again (just NOT this agency!) I have learned SOOO much. A few years ago I would have had no good opinion or insight on the issues at hand. I don't know for sure that the ones I have now are "good" but atleast they are from personal experiences and studies, not just some garbledygook I got from watching tv. The US needs to wake up and realize there are kids that need help. If a parent wants to personally send their child to rehab they have to depend on insurance, which often won't pay past a week. So after a week they either a) release the kid who is jonesing for a blunt since he's going through withdrawl after only 1 week or b) keep him in and pay OUT OF POCKET up to 100$ a day some places. Or option c) call the police when you find the weed. Have your own flesh and blood arrested and get a criminal record that could haunt them forever. Then probation will pay for the rehab AFTER court and the kid has spent atleast a week in juvi. Yeah...guess the kid isn't going to rehab now IS he? OH and kids who COULD be helped aren't taken away from their parents when they should be because the foster care system is so flooded with people who just abandon their kids when the going gets tough. So if a kid is getting neglected at home but not "technically" abused he could stay in that home and DEVELOP self destructive behaviors he wouldn't have had if there was early intervention when the teacher called C&Y 5 years ago when the kid came to school with no lunch for the 5th time and he was only 8, and smelled so bad the other kids called him Stinky Butt. Yeah. The whole friggen system needs help. I get furious just thinking about the babies that die that shouldnt' have to have, the toddlers that have fetal alcohol syndrome and then die of abuse because the birth mother kept them,was ALLOWED to keep them, since she "promised" to straighten up and then figured out she couldn't raise a kid AND be a druggie so she killed the kid in a drunken stupor. where were the caseworkers for THIS kid? But they'll arrest a person for spanking their kid when he was bad. The kid that might actually turn out WORSE because he was taken from a loving (if not slightly misguided or "old school" family) and put in foster care with some crackpot who only wants the $$ not the kid.