It's a miracle!

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#1
So lots of you know about my struggles with Astro. As wonderful as he is, and I do love the heck out of the little snot, he's a hard dog to work with. Loses motivation easily, if he's corrected in any sense whatsoever he either shuts down or escalates back, resource guards, shoots off like a rocket off lead and has no natural inclination to stay near people.

Well, I went to a 5-day BAT seminar recently and I feel like it was borderline lifechanging. I know that sounds cheesy and stupid but seriously, Astro is so ON POINT now that I'm back.

To give the context: Everything about BAT was so relaxed. The new form of BAT involves you following your dog - no matter where it goes (obviously not into a road, and not if they charge right at the trigger, but generally you do follow), keeping the leash loose, and watching for signs that the dog is about to go over threshold. It's all about being as unobtrusive as possible, letting the dog make choices, and using the least amount of intrusion necessary to keep the dog safe and relaxed. There was a lot of emphasis on not pressuring dogs, not getting in their space, and not influencing where they want to go if you don't have to, and literally just letting them check everything out and gather information. Very
"stop micromanaging the dog," micromanage the environment instead as much as possible. It involved treats at key points but even there, there wasn't a whole lot going on.

I tried to absorb it all, came back, and since then Astro has been on fire. Over the past few days he has:

1) Had amazing recall. I mean amazing, he can be in the middle of doing one of his favorite activities and he gets whiplash running back to me if I call him. I actually trusted him to drag a line behind him in my parent's yard! I know that might seem so insignificant to someone with a dog who cares about people and sticks close, but Astro has NEVER offered to stick close by on his own, he's ALWAYS preferred to dash a mile away as soon as you give him a single inch of freedom.
2) Offered close heeling for extended periods of time on walks, with eye contact (!!!!). Not because I cue it, just because he's checking in (!!) and wants to work (!!!)
3) Specifically run up with high value things, with eager and soft body language, trying to get me to trade or take it from him. This dog was a RGer at a young age over everything from sticks to his own leash!

I can't believe it. It's so surreal, it's like I have a totally different dog. I was already quite a "soft" trainer before. I stopped using verbal corrections and no reward markers awhile back because I found that it dampened his already extremely tenuous desire to work for people. But it still wasn't enough, and now that it's 100% No Tension, Not Ever, he's so...willing. We've finally reached the point where HE seeks ME out to do stuff.

I truly am glad I got him. He has taught me so much. What 99.99999% of dogs will let you get away with, he will not, and obviously that's frustrating as sin but I am learning to be so much more patient and thoughtful. If I let myself feel - not say out loud, not act on, just THINK - "this dog is so annoying, why isn't he doing what I want?" for even ONE MOMENT, he says "screw you" and runs off to guard something, and I'm finally starting to count that as a blessing, because he's turning me into the kind of trainer I want to be whether I like it or not :rofl1:

Anyway, here's a slightly old pic, because I know how every thread is better when there are pics :D

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Ozfozz

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#2
Yay!
So glad that BAT worked for you two!

You're going to accomplish great things together :)

(And yes, every thread is better with pictures :p)
 

teacuptiger

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#3
That is really awesome!!!! :) I'm so glad that BAT is working for you and Astro!
 

Moth

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#4
Glad to read about you and Astro finding your groove :)

I really do love to see him. He is just beautiful. I may be biased though ;)
 

Southpaw

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#5
I don't know squat about what BAT is or does, so just out of curiosity, how does it improve things like recall and attentiveness... like, what sorts of things have you been doing to see those changes? I guess anytime I've seen it mentioned it's been in relation to fearful behavior so I didn't know there was any more to it. :)

But, yay for success!
 
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#7
Way to go, it's an awesome feeling to see that kind of thing pay off. He certainly does NOT sound like an easy dog so kudos to you for sticking it out and finding something that works for both of you. :) He's a very, very lucky pup!
 
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#8
Thanks everyone! Things are still going super well.

I don't know squat about what BAT is or does, so just out of curiosity, how does it improve things like recall and attentiveness... like, what sorts of things have you been doing to see those changes? I guess anytime I've seen it mentioned it's been in relation to fearful behavior so I didn't know there was any more to it. :)

But, yay for success!
You're completely right, BAT is mostly for fear reactivity. The only recall in BAT is the emergency treat party recall (recall them by saying "treat party!" and giving them many, many, many high value treats in succession, repeating "treat party" as you toss down or feed each treat), which is only to be used if the dog is rapidly going over threshold and heading straight for the trigger. Other than that, it's actually all about NOT having attentiveness from the dog on you, you want them engaged with their surroundings and your only job is to follow them with a loose leash. Grisha Stewart seems to also be a big believer in doggy choice in general - stuff like a petting consent test, where you wait to let the dog move to you, pet the dog for 3 seconds, stop, and wait to see whether they do any stress signals or ask for more petting (and don't pet anymore if they do the former).

Astro actually isn't fear reactive, but just practicing the skills with him after the seminar (to cement all that learning for me), and taking away a "BAT mindset" of letting the dog make its own choices and not use ANY pressuring body language if you can help it, is what's helped I think. He doesn't really need BAT itself as a structured protocol but the tone and the handling skills from it seem to be something he really enjoys. The more I try to encourage attentiveness, the more I seemed to lose it, but now that I'm so relaxed he keeps offering the behaviors I've been trying to teach and proof.

I did not expect this, honestly. I never would have guessed that something like BAT would help completely dissimilar behaviors like heeling, but I guess he's just very very sensitive to his environment and any pressuring from his handler.

Yay! That's awesome!

How old is he now? Part of it could be that he's growing out of his butthead stage of life too.
Thanks! He's just a bit over a year old. It's completely possible he's growing up and that's part of it. But Shar Pei are stubborn and unbiddable their whole lives, so who knows :rofl1: He definitely still acts like a baby in a lot of ways.

Way to go, it's an awesome feeling to see that kind of thing pay off. He certainly does NOT sound like an easy dog so kudos to you for sticking it out and finding something that works for both of you. :) He's a very, very lucky pup!
Thanks! I feel like I complain about him too much. I think it's just hanging around so many people with dogs that are sooooo far ahead of us and then I hear that they just got the dog 2 months ago or whatever....I'm still learning not to compare, I'm much more competitive than I should be.
 

Southpaw

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#9
You're completely right, BAT is mostly for fear reactivity. The only recall in BAT is the emergency treat party recall (recall them by saying "treat party!" and giving them many, many, many high value treats in succession, repeating "treat party" as you toss down or feed each treat), which is only to be used if the dog is rapidly going over threshold and heading straight for the trigger. Other than that, it's actually all about NOT having attentiveness from the dog on you, you want them engaged with their surroundings and your only job is to follow them with a loose leash. Grisha Stewart seems to also be a big believer in doggy choice in general - stuff like a petting consent test, where you wait to let the dog move to you, pet the dog for 3 seconds, stop, and wait to see whether they do any stress signals or ask for more petting (and don't pet anymore if they do the former).

Astro actually isn't fear reactive, but just practicing the skills with him after the seminar (to cement all that learning for me), and taking away a "BAT mindset" of letting the dog make its own choices and not use ANY pressuring body language if you can help it, is what's helped I think. He doesn't really need BAT itself as a structured protocol but the tone and the handling skills from it seem to be something he really enjoys. The more I try to encourage attentiveness, the more I seemed to lose it, but now that I'm so relaxed he keeps offering the behaviors I've been trying to teach and proof.

I did not expect this, honestly. I never would have guessed that something like BAT would help completely dissimilar behaviors like heeling, but I guess he's just very very sensitive to his environment and any pressuring from his handler.
Cool :) And I totally see what you're saying, I've noticed a trend with Cajun where she's usually much more focused when I don't even care and am letting her explore and do what she wants... and it's always like, why can't you be this attentive when I ASK for it! Guess it's maybe not just some weird thing my dog does :p
 

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