How many people here think that the most important thing in dog is...
- Thread starter oriondw
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See, I've always found a hard dog easier to train. I'm quite "hard" (rofl) myself and personally do better with a lot of structure in my life, so a dog with a harder and more dominant temperament just fits in better.
I consider breeds like Filas, Corsos, Neos, Chow Chows, Malamutes etc. to be "harder". I consider breeds like Golden Retrievers to be "soft". I have personally worked with several Dobermans (rescues) and met dozens more that have been wonderful, social creatures. Fearless, yes, they are good protectors. A Doberman is most certainly a harder dog than a Golden, but you make them out to be far different than I have experienced. True, I can't know a ton about a breed until I have lived with one but most that I have encountered have been very sweet, social, reliable dogs. A well socialized, well trained dog can go in public with its handler and be completely under control, but still protect if necessary...it's not the dog that's taking chunks out of the asses of random strangers
99% of people who think they need a guard dog are going to be perfectly fine with a good-tempered, social dog who can stand up for them if the occasion arises. The general population does not need/cannot handle a Fila or CO for companionship and protection but do just fine with a more social breed like a Doberman or a GSD.
I consider breeds like Filas, Corsos, Neos, Chow Chows, Malamutes etc. to be "harder". I consider breeds like Golden Retrievers to be "soft". I have personally worked with several Dobermans (rescues) and met dozens more that have been wonderful, social creatures. Fearless, yes, they are good protectors. A Doberman is most certainly a harder dog than a Golden, but you make them out to be far different than I have experienced. True, I can't know a ton about a breed until I have lived with one but most that I have encountered have been very sweet, social, reliable dogs. A well socialized, well trained dog can go in public with its handler and be completely under control, but still protect if necessary...it's not the dog that's taking chunks out of the asses of random strangers
99% of people who think they need a guard dog are going to be perfectly fine with a good-tempered, social dog who can stand up for them if the occasion arises. The general population does not need/cannot handle a Fila or CO for companionship and protection but do just fine with a more social breed like a Doberman or a GSD.
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Just catching up on posts ..
So much of this is just interpretation of the words involved. I can see that we don't all interpret "hard" the same way, and I don't think we even interpret "sweet" the same way.
I think of my dogs as being very sweet, but also hard .. *L* .. they are socialized to the point that I can take them all to the nursing home and elderly people can grab onto their fur and tug and hug on them and the dogs handle it just fine. But I have no doubt they will protect me. No one with an ounce of sense would try to walk through my door unannounced - there are two shepherds and three chows waiting to greet them and they're not going to be impressed with some stranger walking in. But if I'm there and I say it's okay, they immediately change to an accepting mode. It's a matter of trust in ME.
I think most people would consider German shepherds and chows as "hard" dogs, especially given that they are (unfortunately) usually in the top five of dogs that bite.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
UCD Kylee CDX CGC NA NAJ, ASCA/CDN CD, NAC NJC HIC BH (Chow)
Trick Am/CDN/ASCA CD, NAP NJP RN CGC HIC (GSD)
Dora NA NAJ CGC 1/3 CD (Chow)
Tori (GSD) and Khana the pup (Chow)
.. and always in my heart, Dawson UD CGC HIC 2X HIT (GSD) and Lady UD CGC STDs 2X HIT (Aust. Shep.)
So much of this is just interpretation of the words involved. I can see that we don't all interpret "hard" the same way, and I don't think we even interpret "sweet" the same way.
I think of my dogs as being very sweet, but also hard .. *L* .. they are socialized to the point that I can take them all to the nursing home and elderly people can grab onto their fur and tug and hug on them and the dogs handle it just fine. But I have no doubt they will protect me. No one with an ounce of sense would try to walk through my door unannounced - there are two shepherds and three chows waiting to greet them and they're not going to be impressed with some stranger walking in. But if I'm there and I say it's okay, they immediately change to an accepting mode. It's a matter of trust in ME.
I think most people would consider German shepherds and chows as "hard" dogs, especially given that they are (unfortunately) usually in the top five of dogs that bite.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
UCD Kylee CDX CGC NA NAJ, ASCA/CDN CD, NAC NJC HIC BH (Chow)
Trick Am/CDN/ASCA CD, NAP NJP RN CGC HIC (GSD)
Dora NA NAJ CGC 1/3 CD (Chow)
Tori (GSD) and Khana the pup (Chow)
.. and always in my heart, Dawson UD CGC HIC 2X HIT (GSD) and Lady UD CGC STDs 2X HIT (Aust. Shep.)
I didnt even mention the word "hard"
There is a big difference between having an unstable temperament and aggressing at things which might be pushing on dogs buttons.
If you know those things then dogs termperament is very stable, because you know every single thing that pushes your dogs buttons, and can either actively work to fix them or escalate them. Learned behaviour is not a temperament issue. Temperament would determine the dogs natural reaction to something he hasnt experienced yet. Golden would greet a stranger, a Caucasian would attack a stranger which comes out of no where to hug him.
Its easy really.
I know how my dog will respond to 99% of situations just by how he moves his ears, other 1% is aggression without a word.
Here's a defination of Hard from my little CMD bible: (translated from russian)
"Best dog of all - unbelievebly strong, massive, smart, cunning, killing the threat in seconds, silent attacking ( without training) in the most harm dealing places and avoiding the enemy's attack"
There is a big difference between having an unstable temperament and aggressing at things which might be pushing on dogs buttons.
If you know those things then dogs termperament is very stable, because you know every single thing that pushes your dogs buttons, and can either actively work to fix them or escalate them. Learned behaviour is not a temperament issue. Temperament would determine the dogs natural reaction to something he hasnt experienced yet. Golden would greet a stranger, a Caucasian would attack a stranger which comes out of no where to hug him.
Its easy really.
I know how my dog will respond to 99% of situations just by how he moves his ears, other 1% is aggression without a word.
Here's a defination of Hard from my little CMD bible: (translated from russian)
"Best dog of all - unbelievebly strong, massive, smart, cunning, killing the threat in seconds, silent attacking ( without training) in the most harm dealing places and avoiding the enemy's attack"
tessa_s212 said:
Well, truth is, we cannot debate and decide what a "hard" breed is unless we come to a general understanding of "hard", which isn't seeming to happen.
It's great that the same dog type doesn't fit us all.
Makes it interesting
For me, I cherish the fact that my dog has the sweetest disposition of almost any dog that I have ever met, and that he is extremely friendly with every single person he has ever met. Literally, my dog has never shown any dislike or fear of any person in his entire life. He simply can't get enough affection and attention from complete strangers. To each his own, though.
Personaly I like DOMINATE breeds. I feal they are easier to deal with in the house.
For exaple, you can yell at most rotties and disipline them with out them thinking they are beeing beaten.
Emma, my beagle is verry submisive and if I talk to her in the wrong tone she crouches down. Personaly I think this makes her dificult to disipline because I dont want to cross her, disipline/beating line and brake her spirit.
Does that make sence
For exaple, you can yell at most rotties and disipline them with out them thinking they are beeing beaten.
Emma, my beagle is verry submisive and if I talk to her in the wrong tone she crouches down. Personaly I think this makes her dificult to disipline because I dont want to cross her, disipline/beating line and brake her spirit.
Does that make sence
tessa_s212 said:
Well, truth is, we cannot debate and decide what a "hard" breed is unless we come to a general understanding of "hard", which isn't seeming to happen.
My idea of hardness is rather close to what Oriondw posted, but above all I consider a hard dog to be absolutely fearless and strong. A hard dog is not quick to respect strangers, no matter how friendly and accepting it may act. A hard dog is not a pushover, it's difficult to bribe them to do something and even harder to force them to.
People who consider hard dogs difficult to train tend to slap a pinch collar on them and get frustrated when their correction doesn't even make the dog blink. Having a high pain tolerance (or no fear of pain. . .not sure which it is with some dogs. Both, perhaps.) doesn't = difficult to train unless your training is purely muscle and force.
..But this isn't about hard dogs. Not even sure how we got on that subject, lol.
D
Well, in reality all dogs are different. I would consider my dobie a "hard" dog just because he takes control of the situation and is very dominant. A hard dog also to me means that they can take corrections without acting as if their life was over. I've seen some dogs that were yelled at and they acted so dramatic. It was very amusing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julie
To me, that would not be a hard dog, but a dog that shares alot of characteristics of many breeds. With a firm and loving owner they can blend somewhat easily. But that is just my personal interpretation. A "hard" dog in my book would be a dog not to be taken into a public situation for stress and fear the dog would attack. Very dog aggressive to unknown dogs. Not child friendly. Could never be off leash. Should wear a muzzle. etc.
Again, this is my own personal interpretation of what a "hard" dog would be for me.
I do not expect others views to be the same, and I guess all have different degrees of what "hard" would be.
By Dobiegurl
Some dogs are bred for these traits.........and that is more of what I am speaking of. A dog that naturally exhibits these traits would be considered "hard" in my head. I do not mean a lab or GR gone wild. I feel that would be a genetic default and/or bad/lack of training.
If you think a doberman is a "hard" breed so be it. Some can be. But in MY EXPERIENCE they are not. They are loyal, good with children, trainable, and even tempered.
As are most of the shepherds I have been lucky enough to meet. And train with.
Again, I will say I am just putting out my opinion. I don't care if anyone agrees or not. I was just contributing to the conversation. I think that is why we are all here.
Originally Posted by Julie
To me, that would not be a hard dog, but a dog that shares alot of characteristics of many breeds. With a firm and loving owner they can blend somewhat easily. But that is just my personal interpretation. A "hard" dog in my book would be a dog not to be taken into a public situation for stress and fear the dog would attack. Very dog aggressive to unknown dogs. Not child friendly. Could never be off leash. Should wear a muzzle. etc.
Again, this is my own personal interpretation of what a "hard" dog would be for me.
I do not expect others views to be the same, and I guess all have different degrees of what "hard" would be.
By Dobiegurl
Some dogs are bred for these traits.........and that is more of what I am speaking of. A dog that naturally exhibits these traits would be considered "hard" in my head. I do not mean a lab or GR gone wild. I feel that would be a genetic default and/or bad/lack of training.
If you think a doberman is a "hard" breed so be it. Some can be. But in MY EXPERIENCE they are not. They are loyal, good with children, trainable, and even tempered.
As are most of the shepherds I have been lucky enough to meet. And train with.
Again, I will say I am just putting out my opinion. I don't care if anyone agrees or not. I was just contributing to the conversation. I think that is why we are all here.
T
I used to disipline my dogs alot.. they used to get corrections for everything imaginable under the sun. I have since switched to Positive Reinforcement training. And bye-bye to any of those submissive problems! Heck, PR even works on the dominant dogs I train. Why not just use one method of training for multiple dogs, instead of having to always use so many different ones..
also, IMO, just because a dog can "take" a correction, doesn't mean those corrections should be dished out.
also, IMO, just because a dog can "take" a correction, doesn't mean those corrections should be dished out.
R
When the word "hard" used to describe a working dog, it does not mean tough necessarily. It means a dog who is not easily ruffled, who is very very steady, and who, when commanded, is not easily deterred from his task.
A hard dog may be the easiest going, friendliest dog you've ever met.
A hard dog is the one who is absolutely bomb proof, and who will complete his task no matter how high the level of difficulty, or the level of distraction.
A hard dog may be the easiest going, friendliest dog you've ever met.
A hard dog is the one who is absolutely bomb proof, and who will complete his task no matter how high the level of difficulty, or the level of distraction.
I want my dogs to be accepting of strangers only when I tell them to be. Roxy I would prefer to be sweet all of the time nomatter what, and she is if you don't count her incessant barking (true Chi quality.) LOL
Precious and Harley on the other hand, I want to wait for our approval before they walk up to a stranger and cover them in kisses. I wish Spud wasn't so aggressive towards other dogs, but for some reason he is.
Precious and Harley on the other hand, I want to wait for our approval before they walk up to a stranger and cover them in kisses. I wish Spud wasn't so aggressive towards other dogs, but for some reason he is.