Fear or Guardyness?

GoingNowhere

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#1
I know it's a bit gauche to post identical threads in two different forum areas, so I apologize in advance for doing so. I just realized that it may have been a bad idea to post this in the "training" section and that it may be less overlooked in this section. The forum isn't allowing me to delete my first post/thread, so if any mods who have the power to do so wouldn't mind deleting the thread in the "training" section, that would be appreciated.

Anyway, copied and pasted:

Question for you all that I started to think about more following the "guardy" thread in the general dog chat.

Boo is an odd little dog that I still haven't quite managed to wrap my head around, despite having had her for nearly 6.5 years now. Here's the scoop. She is friendly with the family and has never had an issue with my sister's husband (despite him being introduced years after adopting Boo) or my boyfriend (same thing there). She is readily accepting of many of my friends, some of my parent's friends, several of my brother's friends, quite a few relatives that we don't see but once or twice a year, and an odd assortment of random strangers that pass through our house.

We had a group of six carolers walk into our foyer over Christmas and Boo sniffed and greeted them without so much as an eye blink.

Yet sometimes (and it's not a rarity either), she just doesn't deal well with particular people. She has never bitten and I honestly don't even think she has ever attempted to nip, but she puts on quite the verbal display when she wants to.

Specifics that I've noticed:

1) She reacts more when someone rings the doorbell and is then let in (versus just letting themselves in). She tends to react the best when others come in with us or if she is let in after them. Sometimes her reaction (for the duration of the stay) will be determined by the manner of entry, but vary between two occasions with the same individual.

2) She can easily be taken care of by neighborhood kids at our home while we are out of town.

3) Our foyer narrows into a hallway (and Boo typically trots down the hall into the foyer to arrive at the front door). If she is going to react, but hasn't yet reacted to the people entering the foyer, it's a fair bet that she will as they move "into" her bubble. If they were to walk away from her, yet still deeper into the house (the foyer alternatively opens to a staircase or the dining room), she is less likely to react.

4) She moves at people, rather than away. If someone walks into her space and she isn't liking it, she'll jump up at the person (without touching them) and put on a barking/growling display. I can call her or physically take her away, but she doesn't move herself away out of fear.

5) She settles down as soon as any person is seated and inside, but will continue to get aggravated if they stand up and move around and she doesn't like them.

6) There is no obvious pattern among those that she "likes" and those that she doesn't. She is happy as a clam with my 6'4" friend, but typically reacts to his 5'5" girlfriend. She loves my boyfriend, but hates his mom (albeit his mother has a loud voice). She doesn't usually react to kids acting quietly, but she will react if they try to hug her, etc. She dislikes some men and is fine with others (e.g. she hates my neighbor who is a big, bulky guy, but is perfectly content with my sister's husband who is 6' something and also has a big, military frame).

7) She does not react in public (typically... the only time I can recount was when man startled her about 30 feet up an otherwise remote trail. She growled a little at the time, but then passed him without trouble). She does react at other houses (lake house and my apartment at school to name a few)

8) She will readily take treats from pretty much anyone, even if .5 seconds prior, she was throwing a fit about them. It doesn't mean that she will like them after they're finished feeding her treats. Keep in mind that she is food motivated, but not overly so (and I have seen her refuse treats in settings that stress her out).

9) She has some other anxiety issues (afraid of thunder/gunshots, doesn't like being outside in the dark, etc. etc.), but is also likely a chow mix.


There you go! Feel free to ask questions. She is truly an excellent dog, has never suggested that she is dangerous, and is under control, so no worries there. That said, I'd like opinions on what you think is the trigger of these reactions. My guess has always been anxiety, but bullets 4,6 and 8 seem to be inconsistent with a truly anxious dog. It could be guardyness, but bullets 1 and 2 seem to suggest otherwise, as does bullet 6 if you consider that she doesn't always act this way.

I still tend to think that it stems from anxiety more than anything, but I would like input.
 

umterps97

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#2
Wow! I am really interested to hear some of the responses because I can't believe how much she sounds like Maya, especially points 1, 4, 5, 6, and 7.

I have never posted or asked because none of her behaviors have ever been a cause for alarm (for me) since we don't really have that many visitors, and if we do, I make sure I keep an eye on her when they enter the house. But I am really curious to see what everyone thinks! :)
 

frostfell

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#3
sounds like fear and bluffing, rather than guarding behavior. not all fear manifests in cringing and moving away, especially if the dog is smart and has figured out that putting on a show gets the OTHER GUY to move away instead
 

GoingNowhere

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#4
sounds like fear and bluffing...
Yeah, this has been my impression as well, knowing Boo's personality. It's a multifaceted behavior though for sure. I find it surprising that she only reacts in the home, rather than out (even when restrained on a leash). Likewise, I still haven't managed to identify one "trigger," although it's quite possible that there are many.
 

busannie

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#5
From what you describe, she sounds like she does have some fear/anxiety issues, but has a higher threshold than some dogs. I'm not a pro by any means, but I've had two "guardy" sort of dogs, and still have the second. The first dog was fear aggressive with strangers in general (at home, out, wherever), and took a long time to warm up to someone, but was fine for life once she did. The second one is fine in 98% of situations, but had bitten family members (even ones she knew and liked) who entered my parents house/yard when their dogs were barking at guests (coincidentally, she hasn't done it since those two dogs died). By herself, people entering is no threat, but if the other dogs raised the alarm, she would dive in. She's also been known to "correct" male family members for roughhousing with kids (specifically when the kids are yelling) in the family, easily prevented by just removing her from those situations. She can go anywhere on leash and is fine, and has hung out at numerous cookouts without any issue- her triggers are very specific.

The barking/advancing on people I would liken to the "forward fear" of a dog that does the same to the vacuum- if it didn't bother them they wouldn't bother with it, but either due to past experience where it's worked to repel the "threat", because she's feeling more confident in her own house/with you there, or because she's naturally that sort of dog who tries to repel rather than retreat.

Lots of dogs react differently to people ringing doorbell/knocking vs people just coming in- mine included. Think about how you react when people ring the bell- you jump up, maybe annoyed because you just sat down with a bag of popcorn and movie on, or maybe concerned because you can't imagine who might be ringing at 10 pm, or even if you are expecting guests, you still probably experience some heightened excitement as you head to the door. When people just stroll in, there's no anticipation. You could probably counter-condition her post doorbell ring behavior to have her associate it with food, or going to lay at a specific area- she might feel less on guard with a job other than being your "backup".

People moving into a dog's space when they're confined and unable to retreat is a common trigger, as well as people standing from a sitting position (getting bigger, scarier to the dog). Other than sort of keeping a journal of when/who she reacts to, it can be hard to know what specific traits a person has which may cause her to do it. It may be a scent, or even a mannerism that you can't detect.

Not reacting in public vs home is something I've seen in my second dog- I suspect there are a number of things that can cause it, in my dog's case, it was other dogs in the house putting on a threat display, and she in turn would get involved. She may feel more/less confident at home, or more confined, leading to her feeling like she has to stand her ground vs move away if she's uncomfortable. I'd ask myself what specific things are different from home vs out in public, and that may help to narrow it down.

Be careful about allowing her to take treats when she's unsure about them, sometimes that can get you in trouble, as the dog moves out of their comfort zone to get the treat, then doesn't know the appropriate course after the treat is gone and they are left without the distraction. It sounds like you know your dog well, but if she's reacting before and after getting a treat from a guest, I'd find another way (toss treats, you give treats, etc).

Got nothing on the noise sensitivity. Neither of my "guardy" dogs have been noise sensitive, and my current noise sensitive dog is a total wuss and very social. If she's anxious in general, it could be just another symptom of that.

How is she when you confine her away from guests as they enter, then let her out? Maybe try a baby gate so she can get acquainted from afar as guests settle, then come out when you think she's ready and everyone's settled. Visiting time can become designated stuffed kong or bone time, so she has something to do other than worry about policing your guests.
 

GoingNowhere

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#6
Thank you very much for the lengthy and detailed response! Some of your comments were very insightful and all were much appreciated! I like the term "forward fear" - it'll be helpful for trying to explain to non-dog saavy guests Boo's behavior.

ETA, I just reread your question at the end. Boo is entirely fine entering a room where seated guests are present (or standing, if they aren't moving at all). This is true even if she hasn't first had a chance to greet them. That said, if they get up to move around and walk "into" her or step over her, she might get up in arms. Occasionally she'll even be odd if they don't move into her space, but just move near her in general.

That said, it's not like she is panicky the entire time strangers (even ones she doesn't like) are visiting. She'll lie down, take a nap and be totally "fine" seeming until someone gets too close or steps over her. She is not bad when she is locked up in a separate room (and remains quiet with most people entering even if she can see them through the glass door). Putting her behind the glass door, having another member of the family call her away, or sticking her in the car or backyard is our 'go-to' action when there's going to be a quick visit with someone she might not like. For longer stays, though, she gets let out and I take measures to avoid having our guests barked at. For example, calling Boo to me while showing guests through the house keeps anyone from inadvertently walking "into" the dog and thus being startled.

Unfortunately, many people are not dog-saavy and even after having been barked at before, don't realize that just because the dog is lying on the floor looking content and happy with life, she still might not be comfortable being stepped over by a stranger.
 
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busannie

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#7
Neither of my current dogs are bothered by people moving around and over them, but my first dog would definitely have had an issue with that. Understandably so, it's a pretty threatening behavior to an unfamiliar dog, and not something I would do even to a dog that seemed "ok" with me unless we knew each other.

I would try to encourage her to lay somewhere "out of the way" when people come... maybe set up a bed in a corner or along a wall, and either teach her to go and stay there, or put a 3-4ish foot tie down or section of ex-pen there if she's comfortable with that. Put her there multiple times without guests in the house with a kong or bone, so she learns that it's a fun, safe place; once she gets the idea, add in guests that she's familiar with, working up to the ones she's less familiar/friendly with. Make sure that you don't allow guests to bother with her while she's "trapped", and likewise, don't allow her to pull at the lead/push on the gate/pen and work herself up if she doesn't like someone. I would still confine her until guests are in, then bring her in to her spot once people are settled.

Alternatively, you could keep her on a leash and with you, so you can ensure she's not in guests' way and that they aren't given the chance to make her uncomfortable. If she does well meeting people out in public on leash, this may work for her.

I've also heard good things about the "manners minder" device for reactive/budybody type dogs... apparently it's now called the ""treat and train".
http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/the-research-that-lead-to-the-treattrain-aka-manners-minder
 

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