Dog/wolf crosses and your experiance with them

[Groch]

If I was a neighbor of a wolf-dog hybrid I would be interested in aggression statistics. I have started reading about dog aggression on a site called "dogbitelaw.com".

There is a study on all reported dog bites to humans from 1982-2006 and it has this on wolf-dog hybrids.

"Wolf hybrids, German shepherds, and huskies.........almost never inflicting severe injury on adults--but it would be a huge mistake to assume that these seemingly similar patterns reflect similar behavior......Relative to their overall numbers, wolf hybrids are accordingly 60 times more likely to kill or maim a child than a German shepherd...In the German shepherd mauling, killing, and maiming cases I have recorded, there have almost always been circumstances of duress: the dog was deranged from being kept alone on a chain for prolonged periods, was starving, was otherwise severely abused...None of the German shepherd attacks have involved predatory behavior....

Every one of the wolf hybrid attacks, however, seems to have been predatory. Only four of the fatality victims were older than age seven, and all three were of small stature. The first adult fatality was killed in the presence of her two young sons, whom she was apparently trying to protect. The second was killed while apparently trying to protect her dog.

Most of the victims were killed very quickly. Some never knew the wolf hybrid was present. Some may never have known what hit them. Some were
killed right in front of parents, who had no time to react.

Unlike German shepherds, wolf hybrids are usually kept well apart from children, and from any people other than their owners. Yet they have still found more opportunity to kill and maim than members of any other breeds except pit bull terriers and Rottweilers, each of whom may outnumber wolf hybrids by about 10 to 1...."

I think this article makes several key points. A tremendous amount of canine behavior IS breed related. And, there is a lot of predatory wolf in these hybrids. I would not want one living next to me if I had small children.

The pictures posted above are beautiful, and I can see why some people are temped to own them.

George

 

[Boo1129]

I disagree with a lot of the "study" ...I will have to go read the article myself and see who did it and whatnot but a lot of things you read on the internet isn't always the best source A lot of times people don't even have an actual "wolfdog" but infact have a husky/gsd mix that does in fact look like a wolf...There was a site...wish I could remember it but it had about 15 pics of dogs...only 1 was a wolfdog and even owning one myself I was wrong...and would have thought about 13 of them were...A lot of people claim they have 1 because it's "wow" and "cool" factors....They aren't "cool" to own...They are a lifelong commitment...
As for being afraid if you had a small child? Due respect but I have 3 children who are now 13, 11 and almost 8...It's about teaching a child how to live with 1 and have them respect them...I am a responsible owner..I take every precaution to make sure things are safe..I also have babysat including a 1 yr old and Kuruk has been around the kids..The only thing I was ever worried about was him knocking the baby over(which I would have been afraid of that with any big dog)...For the most part he sniffed at the little ones and ran from the bigger ones...He got more comfortable as he grew and would eventually lay down with them in the room..All kids who come in my house are taught to leave him alone and let him come to them so they don't scare them away....Responsible owners aren't going to let their dogs get loose and cause havoc around the neighborhood...If Kuruk was loose I would worry more about livestock than I would a child...he is even afraid of kids and will run away...most of the time a wolf does flee....it's the dog in the mix thats the biter....

 

[ToscasMom]

dogbitelaw is sponsored by a legal firm that represents people against owners of aggressive dogs. They generally represent victims of dog bites, etc. Just thought you might be interested.

 

[Squishy22]

I disagree with a lot of the "study" ...I will have to go read the article myself and see who did it and whatnot but a lot of things you read on the internet isn't always the best source A lot of times people don't even have an actual "wolfdog" but infact have a husky/gsd mix that does in fact look like a wolf...There was a site...wish I could remember it but it had about 15 pics of dogs...only 1 was a wolfdog and even owning one myself I was wrong...and would have thought about 13 of them were...A lot of people claim they have 1 because it's "wow" and "cool" factors....They aren't "cool" to own...They are a lifelong commitment...
As for being afraid if you had a small child? Due respect but I have 3 children who are now 13, 11 and almost 8...It's about teaching a child how to live with 1 and have them respect them...I am a responsible owner..I take every precaution to make sure things are safe..I also have babysat including a 1 yr old and Kuruk has been around the kids..The only thing I was ever worried about was him knocking the baby over(which I would have been afraid of that with any big dog)...For the most part he sniffed at the little ones and ran from the bigger ones...He got more comfortable as he grew and would eventually lay down with them in the room..All kids who come in my house are taught to leave him alone and let him come to them so they don't scare them away....Responsible owners aren't going to let their dogs get loose and cause havoc around the neighborhood...If Kuruk was loose I would worry more about livestock than I would a child...he is even afraid of kids and will run away...most of the time a wolf does flee....it's the dog in the mix thats the biter....

80% of wolf hybrids are credited to having more wolf in them than they really do. I had a chow about 10 years ago and the people I got him from said he was part coyote, and it turned out to be false!

WHATE has a great website on the subject. I think it might be WHATE.com. There is a link on that site to another site which has pictures of wolf hybrids and dogs that have no wolf in them at all. Its a real eye opener!

 

[Squishy22]

Here is the website... http://www.inetdesign.com/wolfdunn/whate/

 

[Boo1129]

Ahhhhhh ok! Thx!

 

[Boo1129]

Ohhhh Nicole Wilde is fantastic! We got her books once we found out Kuruk's true heritage She actually contacted my hub after seeing videos of him actually riding with Kuruk with the springer bike attachment...( wasn't an easy task to get him to take to the bike! took lots of hours of me walking him next to it..etc..) She had asked him to send her the videos and asked if she could use them...I'm not sure if she ended up needing them or not

 

[Squishy22]

Here is a link that has a wolf hybrid percentage test on it. Its quite surprising!!!

http://www.wolfpark.org/wolfdogs/Poster_section2.html

 

[blue]

My friends dog Kryptos was supposidly 75% wolf. That was the most forgiving dog Ive ever met. His owner once landed on him jumping off a 10' drop, dog didnt blink.

Kryptos bit a child of 8 once after the kid spent thirty minutes hitting him in with a stick. Kryp got taken to the pound on that one and after a witness came forward was sent home.

You could pick that dog up, if you could pick him up, and throw him and he would come back for more.

 

[Groch]

I am interested in hearing whether "dogbitelaw" has a bias.
But a lot of what was in the report (not written by dbl) makes logical sense to me.

That is, many owners of terriers tell you that it may not be the right dog to own if you have a cat because of a high "prey drive"

Wolves who are successful in the wild have to have strong prey drives, and excellent kill abilities.

I do think that environment (that is, a very knowledgeable and effective owner) could lessen this risk...but you are still fighting against nature.

I do not think you can use the "blame the deed not the breed" with full blooded wolves. Why should we be sure that we can trust that argument with wolf-dog hybrids.

 

[Boo1129]

I have done a lot of research and talked to a lot of owners of wolfdogs of all content....We went to see a lady who owns quite a few rescues...She has 2 large areas in the back and has about 8 in the house...along with 2 little dogs and cats...She too has revolved her whole life around the dogs to take care of them ( some were horrific abuse cases ) Some of the higher content are understandably harder to train..have a higher prey drive etc ( however...my female husky has just a high prey drive as my wolfie she tried to and almost successfully killed my cat) Anyway...I think if someone responsible is taking care of the dogs you won't see any "accidents" with anyone getting hurt...We went into the area with the higher content( like 90% or more) I wasn't nervous...I took my 2 little ones in...My oldest was afraid....Mark came in after a while too...They came up to me and the kids...I got kisses Since mark was afraid they could tell that...but they didn't "attack" instead they stayed away from him....they got close enough to sniff him but then backed away...This is the behavior i've seen from mine as well as hers...They are more scared of people then the people are of them! Anyway here are a few pics I thought I would share from that visit

 

[Groch]

Boo,

The articles that I have read back up a lot of what you say. They said wolfdogs almost never attack adults. They try to avoid confrontation and run away.

The articles said virtually all wolfdog bites on humans happen to small children and the kinds of attacks indicate prey drive.

Husky attacks on humans are not "prey" attacks. I think that domesticated dogs think of humans as part of their packs...and therefore not on the lunch menu. Full blooded wolves are less likely to be part of a human pack, and wolf-dogs may be somewhere in between.

 

[Amalthea]

None of them will be domestic, truly or otherwise. Wolves are not domestic. They can not be made domestic. They can not do what thousands and thousands of years of evolution have done to cause an isolated group of them to domesticate themselves and turn into dogs. They're wild animals and do not make good pets and should be left in the wild where they belong, where their natural, eccological niche is. If any do make good pets, I'd bet my bottom dollar that their make-up is vastly domestic dog and not wolf.

Great post Boo. Thanks for sharing.

I didn't mean pure wolves when I wrote that, I was talking about wolf/dog mixes. A wolfdog that is mostly wolf, I agree, will probably be too wild to have as a pet... but I don't think wolf conservationists would say they should be released into the wild, because it changes the wild wolf population's bloodline to have dog genes introduced, however small the percentage is, and because if they have been raised and fed by people their whole lives, even if they are 'wild', they will not easily understand that they have to fend for themselves once they are released...I'd think it would cause problems if they lingered around human homes, hoping to be fed and cared for by someone, since they'd be used to associating humans with being fed. It would take a lot of monitoring by people to make sure that the wolfdog didn't return to towns or garbage cans looking for food, and was accepted by the wild wolf pack in the area, etc. I'm not saying they could ever be a manageable pet, but I think some of them could, it just depends on the individual wolfdog and their own traits and compatibility with people. Otherwise, the only really caring solution for them is to be sent to a wolfdog rescue or sanctuary that could give them the space and the care they need. However, not all of them can be saved, and I understand that sometimes animals have to be put to sleep for several reasons, but I don't advocate euthanization as the "main" solution to the problems of homeless wolfdogs, just as I don't feel that pit bulls and other breeds with legislation against their breed should be put down just because of what they are, I think it should be looked at on a case-to-case basis.

 

[hbwright]

I have not read the replies to this but thought I'd give my experience. I have only experience with one and it was crossed with a chow. I don't know if it was the bad mix or what but this dog should have been put out of his misery when he was a puppy. Not to be mean, but this dog was not a happy dog at all and it was probably mostly the owners fault with his breeding minimally at fault. Never the less he was an extremely dangerous animal which very surprisingly never took a life but had mildly maimed numerous people including a young boy and attacked me when I was pregnant.

The owner was pleased as punch that she had a "wolf hybrid" but had no control over the dog and zero training. He was spoiled rotten and miserable as a result. Eventually the dog was thrown into the back yard with absolutely no contact with anybody but the owner of him and she was away from home or sleeping 70% of the time and only went out to feed him once a day if he was lucky. The rest of the time he was thrown food and watered by the hose from the deck above his living quarters without the chance of contact. The poor boy lived a very long life this way, about 14 years.

I think there is no reason for an accidental cross of any sorts, if your dog is fixed it won't happen and shame on people who do it on purpose. I don't know if this was a very extreme case but I wouldn't trust one for this reason.

 

[Amalthea]

As for being afraid if you had a small child? Due respect but I have 3 children who are now 13, 11 and almost 8...It's about teaching a child how to live with 1 and have them respect them...I am a responsible owner..I take every precaution to make sure things are safe..I also have babysat including a 1 yr old and Kuruk has been around the kids..The only thing I was ever worried about was him knocking the baby over(which I would have been afraid of that with any big dog)...For the most part he sniffed at the little ones and ran from the bigger ones...He got more comfortable as he grew and would eventually lay down with them in the room..All kids who come in my house are taught to leave him alone and let him come to them so they don't scare them away....Responsible owners aren't going to let their dogs get loose and cause havoc around the neighborhood...If Kuruk was loose I would worry more about livestock than I would a child...he is even afraid of kids and will run away...most of the time a wolf does flee....it's the dog in the mix thats the biter....

I was curious after reading that, do your kids ever have their friends about their age over, and how does Kuruk act around them or other kids he doesn't live with? Moro is okay around older kids but seems to get really nervous and/or excited around the younger ones, when she was smaller it wasn't so much of a worry, but now I make sure she's kept seperate when our friends bring their kids by, and that they call and ask us first before coming over. I do wish I could help her with this behavior, but I feel like it's too risky to have a small child in the same room with her at all, even with adults watching...she's too unpredictable around them and even a playful leap or nip could cause a lot of damage. Moro loves every dog and cat, puppy and kitten she's met, so I don't know if this is a prey drive thing or an 'alpha' thing with the kids or what, but she doesn't go into hunting mode with puppies, small dogs, or kittens/cats that she could see as prey. She's extremely happy and playful around strange dogs and cats, and will even roll over and show submission to a much smaller dog if that dog acts aggressively toward her...I've never seen her show any dog aggression or food aggression. Once, my friend brought her min pin over and that little dog growled Moro off her own food bowl and tried to eat her dinner, while she slinked away and let the little guy boss her around all evening But for some reason her attitude changes around small kids, for that reason I strictly avoid letting her go near them.

 

[Ratboy]

When I was a little kid, the people down the street had a jungle gym that was right up against their back fence. On the other side of the fence was Penny, a very large, and mean as hell Wolf/Shepherd mix. I was playing on the jungle gym, and somehow, I don't know how, I fell into Penny's yard. She was already watching us, and she slowly came towards me, with her ears back and her head down, snarling. I started yelling, and the other kids were screaming, and I think that might have saved me form getting chewed up. Penny kind of freaked out from all the yelling, and just as she started coming towards me again, her owner came running out of the house and called her and she stopped in her tracks. He took her inside and then came out and yelled at me for a while. Penny was actually friendly if you reached over the fence, but inside her yard, you were food.

The jungle gym got moved a couple of days later, the woman whose yard it was in went crazy and made her hubby move it ASAP. She was scarier than Penny by a mile.