At my wits end with this dog!

MericoX

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#23
Go back to crate basics. If he's pottying in his crate every 6 hours, try taking him out every 5 hours. Could be you advanced to fast and he hasn't learnt to hold it for that long. I also second Kat's suggestion to get his poo checked.
 

Danefied

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#24
Depends on the day...but this is a rough (not exact) summary.

On days I work nights:

(8 am) Taken out on the morning.
(8:30 am) Fed.
(9 am - 10:30 am) Lounge around a bit.
(10:30 am) Outside again.
Play/hang around inside until noon rolls around.
(12) Long walk.
(2 pm) Taken out.
(3-4 pm) Kenneled and then I go to work.
(8-9 pm) Fed when I get back, taken out an hour after, then to bed.

On days I work mornings:

(7 am) Taken outside.
(7:15 am) Fed.
Taken outside an hour after.
(8-9 am) Kenneled and I go to work.
(2-3 pm) When I come back they go outside.
(4 pm) Long bike ride and sometimes the dog park.
(5-6 pm)(Training goes here on days that I do it.)
(8 pm) Fed.
(9 pm) Taken outside.
(10 pm) Bedtime.




Days that I am off are similar to days that I work mornings. We lounge around the house or go places with them. Boardwalk, the lake, the dog park...and all of that is a rough guesstimate. Every day is different depending on what is going on, but feeding times and potty times are always consistent.
If I’m reading the above right, it looks like he’s in his crate at night from 8 or 9pm to 8am or from 10pm to 7am? That’s 9 hours and more. I don’t know any 5 month old who can hold it that long. Though in the thread I’m quoting you say he’s 6 months. Still a long time for a 6 month old puppy.
Our last puppy would still have accidents at 7 months if we weren’t careful, though she’s a giant breed and they take longer to mature.

I’d check for giardia (though holding it too long can cause diarrhea too), re-crate train, and have a late night potty break or an early morning one, or both.
 

Barbara!

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#25
He is never left in his kennel for more than 4-5 hours.

My schedule is normally more sporadic because I have insomnia and never sleep.

Either way, here's last night as an example...

He had his meal and water at around 6:30. I took him out every hour until 10 pm, bedtime. (Let him have another drink at 8ish.) (So he had had 4 hours to clear all the food, and 2 hours to clear all the fluid out until bedtime.)

At midnight he had diarrhea and pee in his kennel. Cleaned it out, took him outside, put him back to bed. At 3 he had more pee. Cleaned it up, took him out, put him back to bed...

It's just ridiculous. I truly think he is sick. I'm not leaving him in the kennel for too long, he's not stressed in the kennel...but Giardia sounds very plausible or maybe his food isn't setting with him well. I just don't get it, it's almost like he holds some in. I see him pee and poop outside, but then he has more to go throughout the night... And he does it during the day, too. Not just at night. During the day when he goes outside a ridiculous amount, he still does it in his kennel.

Right now he is tied outside on his chain spot.
 

*blackrose

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#27
My first thought would be to do the fecal (giardia and coccidia would be my primary concerns) and also cut back on his food. If he's eating and eating and eating and not gaining any weight, then either is a naturally lean dog, or something is medically wrong with him (like worms). Either way, feeding him more isn't going to help. If you need to try to keep weight on him, feed him a nutrient/caloric dense food and/or supplement with satin balls (http://www.holisticdog.org/Nutrition/Satinballs/satinballs.html).

Kiba, the Pittie I fostered, was a naturally lean dog. He stayed at the same weight (borderline lean/skinny) eating four cups a day or eight cups a day. Didn't matter. But when he ate eight cups a day, he was pooping out of his ears. LOL His new family had him neutered and I'm assuming that cut his metabolism down as the picture updates the send me shows him with a normal amount of fat over his ribs, which was impossible before.

I'd crack down on re-house breaking him. If he has no den instinct, then it will be difficult. Cooper was never properly housebroken - he wouldn't go in the house, but that was because he had an owner equivalent to a doggy door. If he's left loose in the house over night, he'll crap on the floor. Luckily we don't have that problem when he is in his crate as he at the very least considers his crate his den, but we haven't had much luck teaching him to expand that concept to the rest of the house.

And if it only happens at night, barring any medical problems, I personally wouldn't be opposed to some kind of indoor/outdoor dog run for him. He can still be a house dog - no need to banish him outside and only outside - but just use the run as you would the crate. That's what we do with Rose. No fault of her own, but she's incontinent and the medications were hit and miss. When she's let out during the day she's fine, but over night and while we were gone long hours she'd leave a puddle and it was ruining the floor. So now she stays in her outdoor kennel as her "crate" and everybody's happy.
Even if it was a temporary solution while you worked with him on it, it would be worth it if it saved your sanity.
 

Red Chrome

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#28
How many times is he pooping a day?

If it is more than twice...thay would make me think you were feeding too much which could be the source of the diarrhea. Maybe break his meals into smaller portions throughout tthe day?
 

crazedACD

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#29
Are you living with a boyfriend/hubby? Anyone else? Can you honestly arrange for someone to stay at home with him for a few weeks and ditch the crate? Tether him to you 24/7 and train him that way. Maybe even paper train in an ex-pen or something..I don't really like that way, but it sounds like you need to do something different for him.
 

Teal

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#30
He is never left in his kennel for more than 4-5 hours.

My schedule is normally more sporadic because I have insomnia and never sleep.

Either way, here's last night as an example...

He had his meal and water at around 6:30. I took him out every hour until 10 pm, bedtime. (Let him have another drink at 8ish.) (So he had had 4 hours to clear all the food, and 2 hours to clear all the fluid out until bedtime.)

At midnight he had diarrhea and pee in his kennel. Cleaned it out, took him outside, put him back to bed. At 3 he had more pee. Cleaned it up, took him out, put him back to bed...

It's just ridiculous. I truly think he is sick. I'm not leaving him in the kennel for too long, he's not stressed in the kennel...but Giardia sounds very plausible or maybe his food isn't setting with him well. I just don't get it, it's almost like he holds some in. I see him pee and poop outside, but then he has more to go throughout the night... And he does it during the day, too. Not just at night. During the day when he goes outside a ridiculous amount, he still does it in his kennel.

Right now he is tied outside on his chain spot.


Sounds like you should be waking up every 2 hours to take him out at night, too.

Is he making a fuss at all before going, or just going in the crate and THEN making a fuss because he's in a mess?

Even if there is medically something wrong, he's now learned to potty in his crate and you'll have to work really hard to backtrack that.
 

yoko

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#31
How much do you know about his life before you got him?

I know some dogs that have been kept in small places for quite a while can get use to just going to the bathroom in their area.
 

Barbara!

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#32
Are you living with a boyfriend/hubby? Anyone else? Can you honestly arrange for someone to stay at home with him for a few weeks and ditch the crate? Tether him to you 24/7 and train him that way. Maybe even paper train in an ex-pen or something..I don't really like that way, but it sounds like you need to do something different for him.
My boyfriend and I both work. I am going to try the tethering thing though, because he isn't completely housebroken and seems to be struggling with that. It's almost as if he goes whenever he has to go, and doesn't care where he is. He just happens to do it a lot on his kennel..../:

He pooped a total of three solid poops outside today, and two notsosolid poops and one solid poop in his kennel. I cut back on his food today and we will see what is does. I can't take him into the vet until tomorrow morning...since today was Sunday and that totally skipped my brain, lol.




Sounds like you should be waking up every 2 hours to take him out at night, too.

Is he making a fuss at all before going, or just going in the crate and THEN making a fuss because he's in a mess?

Even if there is medically something wrong, he's now learned to potty in his crate and you'll have to work really hard to backtrack that.
Yep. I'm going to have to.

No, he doesn't fuss first, he just does it. And he doesn't always even fuss after. Sometimes he just lays there and doesn't seem to mind a whole lot...other time he does whine about it. But yeah, he fusses afterwards, if at all.

This is the first time I've ever had a dog continually poop/pee in their crate. I've never had to deal with a problem like this ever before...so I have no idea how to teach him NOT to poop/pee in his crate.

How much do you know about his life before you got him?

I know some dogs that have been kept in small places for quite a while can get use to just going to the bathroom in their area.
He does have issues because of his past. He was taken from his Mom at 2-3 weeks ( don't have a clue why.). The lady who had him got him at 4 weeks and was fostering him through the town shelter. (Although their foster program was basically them just giving you the dog and taking no responsibility for it later.) She was the one that told me he had been separated from his mom at 2 or 3... Because that's what the shelter told her. She told me he was missing fur and underweight and really sick when they gave her to him and she nursed him back to health before we got him at 11 weeks. Supposedly he was a house dog, and she said he was crate trained, but never mentioned him having issues with going in his crate.

That's all I know about his background.
 

Red Chrome

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#33
Pooping 6 times in a day seems like a lot to me. My puppies have never pooped that much.

Something doesn't seem right.
 

crazedACD

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#34
Quick thought, not sure if was mentioned...what do you have in the crate? Any bedding? Try removing all the bedding so there is nothing absorbent.
 

Barbara!

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#35
Nothing is in the crate with him.

I'm crossing my fingers for answers in the fecal test tomorrow.
 

kady05

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#36
He sounds like he is pooping WAY too much. Considering he has solid stools outside, I'm not inclined to think it's Giardia, or anything similar. If it was, he would be having loose stools all the time. Still, can't hurt to have a fecal run, especially if he isn't holding weight with all that kibble.

Sounds like stress to me, and he's now a "dirty dog".. aka he doesn't care if he sits in his waste. Dogs that are like that are really hard to deal with.

I'd probably ditch the crate and set up an x-pen somewhere, see if that helps. Some dogs just cannot deal with crates. Have a friend who dealt with this with her dog and once she ditched the crate and just let him free roam (she has no other pets), he was perfectly fine.
 

Danefied

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#37
I put him in the bathroom and the same thing happened. ):
Did he lay in it though or did he keep himself clean?

I think there are two things you have to work on here - a) potty training, and b) a desire to stay clean.

You have gotten some good advice on this thread. I agree that it sounds like a combination of factors, stress, too much food, bad start in life, and no desire to keep himself clean. I would hope with a dog like this that once they have an opportunity to stay clean (like for MONTHS) it starts sinking in that they should try to stay clean. That battle is a separate one from the potty battle.
For the potty battle, I’d definitely try tethering and ditching the crate in favor of an x-pen where he can still see everyone (as opposed to a bathroom with door closed).
 

Barbara!

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#38
He lays directly in it with no attempt to stay out of it. Which baffles me, lol. Whenever Chevelle was a puppy and she pottied in the crate, she would stand if she had to to keep clean. Baloo? Nope. He will stretch out in it. It's disgusting.

I'll be calling the vet in about 30 minutes.

I'm also going to try re-crate training and think about the idea of an x-pen. Thing is, my house isn't a very big one. I have no idea where I would put a pen so he would be able to see us and not make a big mess. Living room is not an option...I paid good money for my carpet and I already have to get a rug doctor sometime soon,...LOL.

Hopefully here pretty soon we will have a fence set up outside, and then maybe he can sleep out there at night if the problem doesn't fix itself.
 

stafinois

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#39
He lays directly in it with no attempt to stay out of it. Which baffles me, lol. Whenever Chevelle was a puppy and she pottied in the crate, she would stand if she had to to keep clean. Baloo? Nope. He will stretch out in it. It's disgusting.

I'll be calling the vet in about 30 minutes.

I'm also going to try re-crate training and think about the idea of an x-pen. Thing is, my house isn't a very big one. I have no idea where I would put a pen so he would be able to see us and not make a big mess. Living room is not an option...I paid good money for my carpet and I already have to get a rug doctor sometime soon,...LOL.

Hopefully here pretty soon we will have a fence set up outside, and then maybe he can sleep out there at night if the problem doesn't fix itself.

Put a tarp under the x-pen.
 

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