5 year old girl killed by Pit Bull

[Road dog]

Anytime a dog attacks and kills a person the dog is at fault, the breed does not matter. There isn't any reason a dog should kill a person, especially a child. It doesn't matter what the child did the dog was at fault for killing the child.

No it's not. Dogs are NOT people, they do not have the same mental processes as us. Dogs have no comprehension of laws, dogs have no comprehension of what is good and bad behavior beond what we TEACH them.

If a dog attacks a person it is because the OWNER did something wrong. It could have been anything. Using agressive training tactics that made the dog fearful. Not properly socializing the dog. Owning a dog with known behavioral issues and not addressing them. Playing rough with the dog and teaching the dog it's ok to bite at people. Leaving a child alone with a dog. This list could go on and on and on...

Dogs are shaped by the enviornments they grow and live in. A dog does not suddenly decide "I don't like that son of a b****, I think I'll go kick his ass." There is always something more.


And by the way... I spend lots of time around GSD's, Pit bulls and other bully breeds, Rotties, etc.... I have been bitten by 2 dogs in my entire life. Ready? One was a Chihuahua and one was a Pomeranian. Go figure...

 

[dr2little]

No it's not. Dogs are NOT people, they do not have the same mental processes as us. Dogs have no comprehension of laws, dogs have no comprehension of what is good and bad behavior beond what we TEACH them.

If a dog attacks a person it is because the OWNER did something wrong. It could have been anything. Using agressive training tactics that made the dog fearful. Not properly socializing the dog. Owning a dog with known behavioral issues and not addressing them. Playing rough with the dog and teaching the dog it's ok to bite at people. Leaving a child alone with a dog. This list could go on and on and on...

Dogs are shaped by the enviornments they grow and live in. A dog does not suddenly decide "I don't like that son of a b****, I think I'll go kick his ass." There is always something more.

No one is saying that dogs are human but you can't seriously think that a dog that kills a child is NORMAL. We're not talking about jumping up, peeing on the carpet, territorial aggression or protection aggression here...we're talking about KILLING A HUMAN BEING.

I DO bite investigation. There is only one of bite grade level higher than killing (if you can imagine ) and that's ingesting flesh. Something was seriously wrong with that dog that can not be chalked up to complacent owners.

This is again going to turn into another breed bashing thread...IT SHOULD NOT!

Yes people who leave dogs unattended with small children are complete idiots but this was no NORMAL dog!!!! The breed is only relevant due to the power to carry out a killing. Any large powerful NUTCASE of a dog with drive, and I suspect drift, could do the same thing.

 

[tinksmama]

where's the Balance? i'm sorry, but Bob has a point,however...bluntly...put!
Pitbull breeds are in the news more often, b/c they have a problem with many of these dogs! Now, I've known a few sweeties myself, but as he mentioned ,owning a dog who requires 24/7 supervison is more like having a wild tiger around,not a domesticated animal.
And, I was sort of thinking the same thing to a number of posts here, this little girl DIED. It's not the first,or last time we're going to see this. I don't know what the answer is- I don't pretend to know. But i do know that an animal,a breed of animal,or a type of animal who is capable of such destruction deserves more scrutiny than a simple" it must be a bad owner" response.
I realize all dogs have this capability. I also realize that all dogs don't have issues like this as a breed. BUT- All dogs are not the same- breed,temperament, natural inclinations, they are all factors. Just b/c you may love a breed, doesn't make it a safe and wonderful choice for the rest of us.I know many of you love your pit breeds, but I'm also a parent, and I see in this story the death of a small child. By a pitbull. I know they aren't all demons, but there IS a problem. All the "Oh,how sads" really should be directed at the thought of a child being mauled to death.

 

[Dani]

Tragic, an innocent little girl

That's what should matter.

 

[tinksmama]

DR2... very well said, as usual....

 

[iamawesum69420]

There is a difference in 24/7 surveillance and merely keeping an eye on a dog when it is in the same room as a child. Yes, it is tragic that a little girl had to die at the hands of a dog, but it is even more tragic when children die at the hands of other children. We hold the parents responsible in those cases, so why not hold the owner responsible when the dog gets out of control?

 

[Dizzy]

Pit Bulls are banned here for starters, so if the owner was going round claiming it was a pit bull - then you can imagine the type of person they would be...... In it for the hard man image.

Anyone else who has the balls to own a pit bull in the UK and cared for their own, and their dogs safety would be calling it a staffy cross.

Why a 5 year old was left with a large dog is questionable.

 

[Amstaffer]

It is very sad what happen to the girl...that goes without question.

The problem here is that some want to wipe out an entire breed because a very very few go bad because they are abuse and poorly raised!

What should be done? When someone dies, the dog pays with its life and the owner should do serious jail 10+ years. Add to that, people who have problems with the police should be dealt with the first or second time, this case is a classic example. The police knew this guy had a "troubled" dog and he was a poor owner but was allow to continue on his path to disaster.

Authorities often turn their heads to "dog" issues because they are "Just" animals. What they don't realize is that animal abuse often is a signal or red flag for Drugs, Domestic abuse, Child abuse, etc.... It is a proven fact that Most people involved in Dog Fighting are also involved in other felonies.



If we stop looking at dogs as just animals and start dealing with their treatment seriously maybe we can start avoiding problems before they can happen....however I realize that won't be popular with some here because it once again returns the blame on humans and not the Modern Boobie Man aka Pit Bull.

tinksmama Media Reports prove that Pit Bull attack more....I haven't seen you post before so I will respond to that. The Media will othen refer to any dog over 30lbs as a Pit Bull (I saw a picture of a yellow lab and underneath "Pit Bull") Also the word "Pit Bull" grabs attention and hysteria so it leads. Golden Ret attacks get page 12.

Also Tinksmama, something to think about, Why don't Pit Bulls ever attack people or other dogs at Dog shows? Intact males and all, Hmmmm

 

[StillandSilent]

Maybe the dog did fail to show warning signs, at least that the owners could pick up on. I had that happen to me once at work. A big shepard cross, who I had played with and interacted with many times, slammed me from behind, tore through my pants and put a large bite in my leg. If I hadn't been able to get the door in between us, he may have hurt me worse. He did have a reason for attacking me, in his mind, but no one else could figure out what possessed him to go after me.
Maybe this pit bull just snapped, same as the shepard. That makes the dog dangerous. This does not make the breed dangerous. I wouldn't have wanted every shepard or shepard mix in the shelter killed because this one hurt me.

 

[iamawesum69420]

That's exactly why a small child should never be left alone with a dog of any kind. You can just never say with 100% certainty that your dog isn't going to just snap one day. If you're an adult, you have a much greater chance of being able to protect yourself against the dog, or at least be able to get away from the dog. A child isn't going to stand a chance. The owner of the dog, or even the caretaker of the child should have been keeping a better eye on the dog and the child. The dog should have never been able to go into the room where the child was sleeping.

 

[ToscasMom]

Friends, honestly and truly, you will NEVER get society to adapt to dogs of any type or breed. Dogs are expected to adapt to society and not pose a danger to public safety. That goes for all dogs. It's an uncomfortable reality that will never change. People don't want to be "trained" to adapt to dogs, and it is especially unrealistic with regards to children, who may look suspiciously like prey to animal- aggressive dogs. Do you think that may be what is happening here with pit bulls and that this is why "animal aggressive" vs. "Human Aggressive" appear to look the same in so many eyes??? They often seem to attack small people? Having said that, I have a curious question. I wonder statistically how many pit bull and pit bull mix attacks are done by purebred pits vs. "mixes"? Does anybody know where I can find this answer in study by any chance?

 

[chinchow]

Tosca, you will probably never find the answer to the statistics you're wondeirng about. Breed misidentification comes to it's finest degree when bully breeds are involved. Most of these pit bulls may not be registered, some of them might not even be bully breeds at all. And with so many variations in the pit bull these days, you'll probably never find out.

 

[blue]

Anytime a dog attacks and kills a person the dog is at fault, the breed does not matter. There isn't any reason a dog should kill a person, especially a child. It doesn't matter what the child did the dog was at fault for killing the child.

Agreed, but the owner still has a responsability for the dog, requardless of the breed.

 

[GSDluver4lyfe]

No it's not. Dogs are NOT people, they do not have the same mental processes as us. Dogs have no comprehension of laws, dogs have no comprehension of what is good and bad behavior beond what we TEACH them.

If a dog attacks a person it is because the OWNER did something wrong. It could have been anything. Using agressive training tactics that made the dog fearful. Not properly socializing the dog. Owning a dog with known behavioral issues and not addressing them. Playing rough with the dog and teaching the dog it's ok to bite at people. Leaving a child alone with a dog. This list could go on and on and on...

Dogs are shaped by the enviornments they grow and live in. A dog does not suddenly decide "I don't like that son of a b****, I think I'll go kick his ass." There is always something more.


And by the way... I spend lots of time around GSD's, Pit bulls and other bully breeds, Rotties, etc.... I have been bitten by 2 dogs in my entire life. Ready? One was a Chihuahua and one was a Pomeranian. Go figure...

Amen!!! :hail: Dogs are ANIMALS. No animal is EVER 100% predictable and it is the owners job to make sure their dog is under control at all times. For that one second they are left alone something terrible happens. Dogs follow insticts not morals.

 

[pancho]

Friends, honestly and truly, you will NEVER get society to adapt to dogs of any type or breed. Dogs are expected to adapt to society and not pose a danger to public safety. That goes for all dogs. It's an uncomfortable reality that will never change. People don't want to be "trained" to adapt to dogs, and it is especially unrealistic with regards to children, who may look suspiciously like prey to animal- aggressive dogs. Do you think that may be what is happening here with pit bulls and that this is why "animal aggressive" vs. "Human Aggressive" appear to look the same in so many eyes??? They often seem to attack small people? Having said that, I have a curious question. I wonder statistically how many pit bull and pit bull mix attacks are done by purebred pits vs. "mixes"? Does anybody know where I can find this answer in study by any chance?

People who have many years experience with the pit bull will tell you the pit bull cross is more likely to attack than a pure pit bull. Many breeds have the desire to attack, most do not have the courage needed to attack. With the pit bull blood added to the other breeds in some cases it will give the dog that additional courage to attack. Also many of the other breeds may attack but do not have the strength and tenacity to do a lot of damage or kill. With the addition of pit bull blood the result may be a dog with the strength and tenacity to do a lot of damage, even kill.

Years ago some people would use crossbreeds in dog matches. It will, in many cases, result in a strong dog that is fight crazy. They would attack and fight even more than a pure pit bull. They also have the bad habit of attacking the owner when a handle is attempted especially if they are in pain. They will quit as soon as they start to loose but they can do a lot of damage before they decide to quit. Most people are not a match for a dog, especially a child. The fight crazy cross dog will not be loosing and will continue the attack until it has done some very serious damage or even kill. If they are attacking an animal and a person attempts to separate them they will, in some cases, attack the person. The pure pit bull will keep trying to attack the animal and ignore the human.

People with experience in matching dogs have know this for many years. That is one of the reasons they keep their dogs as pure as possible. Many years ago the people who matched dogs did not share this info with cur dog owners even though it was common knowledge to them.

 

[IliamnasQuest]

I feel for the poor child who was attacked and killed. I can't even imagine how bad that must be.

Every time I see anything with "pitbull" and "attack" in the subject line, I know there are going to be the two extremes arguing - those who don't want to believe the pitbull is to blame at all, and those who want to get rid of all pitbulls. You see this more with pitbull threads than any other. Of course, there are those more in the middle too.

I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again - if pitbull breeders don't start working toward eliminating aggression in the breed, then they're likely to end up having no breed left. In this day and age, it's downright dangerous to have a dog that is accepted as dog aggressive. I know, everyone will start talking about how the pitbull was bred to be good with people, etc. but the reality is that there are TOO many attacks happening. These dogs need to be bred to be non-aggressive in any way. A dog that is willing to start a fight with another dog and fight to the death, is one that is probably more likely to continue to bite a human beyond the point of stopping the person from whatever they were doing. A dog that is normal, that is reasonable, may bite a person but then they stop. They don't continue to attack.

I don't accept the excuse that someone caused the dog to attack and kill. What excuse could there possibly be for ANY dog attacking and killing a human, other than fighting for its life?? A five year old child who may accidentally trip on a dog, or even pull a tail or grab an ear, should not be KILLED for it. We shouldn't have dogs willing to react that badly, regardless of the breed. And we should all be responsible enough to teach our dogs that being handled roughly is not reason to bite. We have to teach bite inhibition in order for them to be safe in today's society.

I see the blame here as multiple. The dog is to blame, because it's not normal for a dog to kill a person. The owner is to blame, because this dog showed prior signs of having problems. And those who continue to breed aggressive pitbulls are to blame because aggression, unfortunately, is not always exclusive to one species (regardless of what some people want to claim).

I have German shepherds and chows and both are on some BSL-type lists. I make **** sure my dogs have a high level of bite inhibition. I don't make excuses for dogs of my breeds who kill or hurt a child .. there was something wrong with the dog AND the owner, as far as I'm concerned. I just can't blame a young child - EVER - for getting killed by a dog.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

 

[casablanca1]

I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again - if pitbull breeders don't start working toward eliminating aggression in the breed, then they're likely to end up having no breed left. In this day and age, it's downright dangerous to have a dog that is accepted as dog aggressive. I know, everyone will start talking about how the pitbull was bred to be good with people, etc. but the reality is that there are TOO many attacks happening. These dogs need to be bred to be non-aggressive in any way. A dog that is willing to start a fight with another dog and fight to the death, is one that is probably more likely to continue to bite a human beyond the point of stopping the person from whatever they were doing. A dog that is normal, that is reasonable, may bite a person but then they stop. They don't continue to attack.

I completely agree.

 

[Amstaffer]

I completely agree.

I also agree.........and many have been bred to be "cold", so it can be done.

 

[ToscasMom]

CNN keeps announcing they are covering this story this morning. The trailer they keep using to announce the story is coming up ...film of the killed child sprinkled with a film of a Rottweiler play-fighting with another dog. I couldn't see what breed the other dog was, the Rottie was prominant...looked like a lab mix from the wagging tail. I've seen it about three times already but no story so far. If you want to tune in the time is now.

 

[skyeboxer]

That particular dog regardless of its breed was known by the community to be dangerous. It's 21 year old thug owner had already been done for drug possession with intent to supply and by newspaper accounts took sadistic pleasure in terrorising the neighbourhood by letting the dog run loose and frighten people. He was also known to brag about having an aggressive breed.

Why was this particular young man allowed to continue owning this particular dog? Is it too much to hope for that he would never be allowed to own another?

If owners of breeds on the BSL do not come together to police themselves the policing will be done for them by banning and strict licensing. Rotties, Filas and GSD's are next on the UK list calling for registration and muzzling in public. How long before they too are banned in the Uk? How safe is your collie, your lab, your poodle?

This is not about any breed, its about responible ownership of dogs - all dogs. Responsible breeding has to be part of that. I don't know the answers but it seems to me that instead of jumping on the same old merry-go-round regarding the pitties reputation we need to brainstorm proposals from our side to counter a government total ban.

Does that make sense?

How about, for example, that in order to own a pit bull, one should be free of a violence related police record, have to pay a significant license fee and take out extra insurance? Hmmm... it doesn't seem fair that the local Flash Harry may be able to pay the extra money while Joe Bloggs who simply loves the breed cannot.

Okay ... what about owners having a legal requirement to take their dog to a specialised BSL breed obedience class?

I don't know guys ... but instead of turning this into yet another pro-anti pit thread, perhaps we could come up with some ideas that may one day protect the breeds we love and the humans who may be at risk from poor ownership of them.