5 year old girl killed by Pit Bull
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instead of turning this into yet another pro-anti pit thread, perhaps we could come up with some ideas that may one day protect the breeds we love and the humans who may be at risk from poor ownership of them. 
There was something wrong with that dog and owner both. For a dog to KILL a child is completely abnormal. I'm not saying pit bulls are bad. Heck, I couldn't care less what breed the dog was. That dog was dangerous and not mentally stable.
I think the reason this case is getting so much attention is because pit bulls are an illegal breed over there specifically because of incidents like this.
I do see some of what Bob is saying. It is a bit disheartening on some threads to see how many reasons people come up with as to why the dog wasn't to blame: child left alone, bite victim must have "done something", dog was stressed, the dog "sensed something wasn't right with that person", dog was in a bad mood, whatever.
Yes, there are plenty of times when normally placid dogs can be provoked to bite a human. But to kill, horribly disfigure or nearly rip off limbs? That is not normal.
I think the reason this case is getting so much attention is because pit bulls are an illegal breed over there specifically because of incidents like this.
I do see some of what Bob is saying. It is a bit disheartening on some threads to see how many reasons people come up with as to why the dog wasn't to blame: child left alone, bite victim must have "done something", dog was stressed, the dog "sensed something wasn't right with that person", dog was in a bad mood, whatever.
Yes, there are plenty of times when normally placid dogs can be provoked to bite a human. But to kill, horribly disfigure or nearly rip off limbs? That is not normal.
Hummm
..I think you can give a perfectly healthy, beautiful, high drive pup to a buyer and it can become a monster. You could have given that same pup to a different buyer, and it would be a superstar. I believe it's truely the owner, training, environment, exersize, socializin', diet, vaccines... that altimately end in the dogs fate. I believe this. A pup learns the most in the first 6-8 months of life.
I believe I've seen a report once that stated most shelter dogs are aged 10 months to two years. With the elders being surrendered.
What we the public should focus, (and we don't) because it's controlled by the media, is the life story on the dog in question. Nobody really knows the dogs life story in these "articles" just the life story of the victim.
I believe there's always two sides of a story and in these cases, dogs can't talk. So, they loose their respect.
I think the gardian of the child @ the time should take the sentence of the "death row dog". Maybe then people would wise up and "respect" the power and responsibility of ownership of a dog. If not, there's goldfish.
... this is a CRAZY world, maybe some parents just don't care about their children.
Melissa.
..I think you can give a perfectly healthy, beautiful, high drive pup to a buyer and it can become a monster. You could have given that same pup to a different buyer, and it would be a superstar. I believe it's truely the owner, training, environment, exersize, socializin', diet, vaccines... that altimately end in the dogs fate. I believe this. A pup learns the most in the first 6-8 months of life.
I believe I've seen a report once that stated most shelter dogs are aged 10 months to two years. With the elders being surrendered.
What we the public should focus, (and we don't) because it's controlled by the media, is the life story on the dog in question. Nobody really knows the dogs life story in these "articles" just the life story of the victim.
I believe there's always two sides of a story and in these cases, dogs can't talk. So, they loose their respect.
I think the gardian of the child @ the time should take the sentence of the "death row dog". Maybe then people would wise up and "respect" the power and responsibility of ownership of a dog. If not, there's goldfish.
... this is a CRAZY world, maybe some parents just don't care about their children.
Melissa.
dog aggression is not the same thing as human aggression. that little girl didn't die because the dog was dog aggressive. people are being injured and killed because unstable dogs are being bred.
well-bred, stable pit bulls bred by responsible breeders and sold to repsonsible owners are not the ones causing harm, dog-aggressive or no.
and the idea of breeding all aggression out of dogs is laughable to me. these are ANIMALS. and pit bulls are TERRIERS for crying out loud.
well-bred, stable pit bulls bred by responsible breeders and sold to repsonsible owners are not the ones causing harm, dog-aggressive or no.
and the idea of breeding all aggression out of dogs is laughable to me. these are ANIMALS. and pit bulls are TERRIERS for crying out loud.
I have to say that I agree that a dog that kills humans is a bad dog no matter the breed. If a dog is trained and socialized and a face licker why can't it be left in the home while people sleep. Why does everyone assume the little girl did something to provoke it. I don't know of a 5 year old child up at 4:30 am. I usually don't post on these threads but I had to this time.
It can be said that the owners perhaps did not truly socialize and train the dog that's true. But I would sure hate to think that I had to pen Whiskey up at night to keep him from killing me.
I am not going to take down the pit bull breed because I have done my research as well and this can happen with a Saint Bernard, German Shepard and the list goes on. What I don't like is that alot of you seam to blame the owner or the victim. Maybe it infact is just alot of inbreading causing an insanity problem in this breed because they are so high demand. And if you think not go to a big city and see how many there are. They are a fad dog right now as the Dobie was in the 80's and this happened alot with them too.
The main thing I say her is a dog that attacks and kills needs destroyed!!!
Rather then passing blame maybe they need to find where the dog was gotten from and see if others have attacked too. It could be bred in. With all the people here pleading for genetic test and health etc before breeding do you not think that this may be the problem with this breed ?
It can be said that the owners perhaps did not truly socialize and train the dog that's true. But I would sure hate to think that I had to pen Whiskey up at night to keep him from killing me.
I am not going to take down the pit bull breed because I have done my research as well and this can happen with a Saint Bernard, German Shepard and the list goes on. What I don't like is that alot of you seam to blame the owner or the victim. Maybe it infact is just alot of inbreading causing an insanity problem in this breed because they are so high demand. And if you think not go to a big city and see how many there are. They are a fad dog right now as the Dobie was in the 80's and this happened alot with them too.
The main thing I say her is a dog that attacks and kills needs destroyed!!!
Rather then passing blame maybe they need to find where the dog was gotten from and see if others have attacked too. It could be bred in. With all the people here pleading for genetic test and health etc before breeding do you not think that this may be the problem with this breed ?
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Most reputable breeders "in breed", it's called line breeding.
All breed's breeders do it. They do it to bring out the best traits in their lines.
They do it responsibly but honestly I wouldnt want an inbred dog (although I do have one, didnt know until after I had him).
Cant tell you how many times I have heard how aggressive Dalmatians are (most people say it is because they are inbred), but I have 2 and they are the sweetest dogs ever. (Weston's parents were brother & sister or mother & son )
Same about German Shepherds, lots of people say they are aggressive and vicious as well, never had a problem with my boy. Same about pit bulls. Jet is the sweetest guy out of my bunch (pit bull foster dog).
Everyone is entitled to their opinions though, I think one day the people who say pits are horrible monsters will find out the truth, but I dont think they are going to listed to anything anyone has to say on a message board.
I feel so horrible for this girl, it's such a tragedy. Her parents must be heartbroken.
All I will say about the pit bull issue is this proves BSL doesnt work.
All breed's breeders do it. They do it to bring out the best traits in their lines.
They do it responsibly but honestly I wouldnt want an inbred dog (although I do have one, didnt know until after I had him).
Cant tell you how many times I have heard how aggressive Dalmatians are (most people say it is because they are inbred), but I have 2 and they are the sweetest dogs ever. (Weston's parents were brother & sister or mother & son
) Same about German Shepherds, lots of people say they are aggressive and vicious as well, never had a problem with my boy. Same about pit bulls. Jet is the sweetest guy out of my bunch (pit bull foster dog).
Everyone is entitled to their opinions though, I think one day the people who say pits are horrible monsters will find out the truth, but I dont think they are going to listed to anything anyone has to say on a message board.
I feel so horrible for this girl, it's such a tragedy. Her parents must be heartbroken.
All I will say about the pit bull issue is this proves BSL doesnt work.
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Not necessarily. There are several factors involved in aggression. (I'm not speaking specifically on this case or any other, just general)
1)Genetics (was the dog genetically proned to be aggressive? Aggression can be hereditary - which is why purchasing from a good breeder who only breeds from sound stock is critical)
2)Environment - was the dog raised properly? Trained? Abused? Exercised?
3)Socialization - was the dog socialized or unfamiliar with strangers/children/noises
4)Medical condition - many medical conditions can cause aggression
5)Provocation - any living being has a breaking point at which it will react. Proper socialization and training can help raise this threshold, but still, it is instinct and nature to have a point where any living thing will fight back.
Sometimes attacks are caused by one factor. Sometimes several.
1)Genetics (was the dog genetically proned to be aggressive? Aggression can be hereditary - which is why purchasing from a good breeder who only breeds from sound stock is critical)
2)Environment - was the dog raised properly? Trained? Abused? Exercised?
3)Socialization - was the dog socialized or unfamiliar with strangers/children/noises
4)Medical condition - many medical conditions can cause aggression
5)Provocation - any living being has a breaking point at which it will react. Proper socialization and training can help raise this threshold, but still, it is instinct and nature to have a point where any living thing will fight back.
Sometimes attacks are caused by one factor. Sometimes several.
Human aggression is more likely to be learned. Not many breeds were specifically bred to have human aggression as a trait. And today, even breeds that were bred to be forceful with people are making amazing family pets.
No breed was bred to rip people apart or kill them though. For that to be "instinct", there is something mentally wrong with the dog, or the owner has caused them to act this way.
No breed was bred to rip people apart or kill them though. For that to be "instinct", there is something mentally wrong with the dog, or the owner has caused them to act this way.
My mother, most days I don't admit to having one... I *swear that I'm a test tube baby!*, is a smart woman. Smart, resourceful, and talented. The only thing wrong with her is that she's just one or two cans shy of a six pack...
And if she weren't busy being a traitorous, scheming, thieving, self absorbed human being... she'd be great. As it is she hurts everyone that she comes in contact with. And she destroys everything she touches.
Statistically a certain percentage of the human population is just bound to be wacko. Just how it is. The genes change. Circumstances shape. Things happen. The severity of the "wacko" factor changes from one nut job to another... some people are serial killers, some are OCD. The reasons change too. Birth defects, childhood trauma, substance abuse, illness.
So the reasons change, and severity changes, but the statistics stay the same. Statistically some percentage of humans are going to be certifiable... It's not "fair" that it had to be MY mom (for whatever fair is worth,) but it had to be somebodies. I therefor don't find it a difficult leap to imaging that the same sort of statistic applies to dogs.
Some of them are just going to be nuts-o. Reasons change: breeding, training, abuse, neglect, illness. But it's bound to happen one way or another. It's not fair that this little girl had to win this lottery. It's very tragic.
But saying that it couldn't have been breeding is as short sided as saying that it had to be breeding. Saying that training would have solved it is as narrow as saying that it would not have. That all depends on the cause. And the cause is a variable which changes from case to case.
The bottom line here is that this is one of those problems where all of the causes have to be fixed before the symptoms are going to go away. Better breeding with careful attention to family disposition. Careful training with special attention to socialization. Careful supervision with special attention to new situations.
If the whole of the population could agree on these things then the problem would almost disappear. Almost. There's still always going to be natures little joker card. Living species were meant to change, and change they will, no matter how careful the breeding, training there will always be a certain percentage (albeit a smaller percentage) of these kinds of things that happen.
And if she weren't busy being a traitorous, scheming, thieving, self absorbed human being... she'd be great. As it is she hurts everyone that she comes in contact with. And she destroys everything she touches.
Statistically a certain percentage of the human population is just bound to be wacko. Just how it is. The genes change. Circumstances shape. Things happen. The severity of the "wacko" factor changes from one nut job to another... some people are serial killers, some are OCD. The reasons change too. Birth defects, childhood trauma, substance abuse, illness.
So the reasons change, and severity changes, but the statistics stay the same. Statistically some percentage of humans are going to be certifiable... It's not "fair" that it had to be MY mom (for whatever fair is worth,) but it had to be somebodies. I therefor don't find it a difficult leap to imaging that the same sort of statistic applies to dogs.
Some of them are just going to be nuts-o. Reasons change: breeding, training, abuse, neglect, illness. But it's bound to happen one way or another. It's not fair that this little girl had to win this lottery. It's very tragic.
But saying that it couldn't have been breeding is as short sided as saying that it had to be breeding. Saying that training would have solved it is as narrow as saying that it would not have. That all depends on the cause. And the cause is a variable which changes from case to case.
The bottom line here is that this is one of those problems where all of the causes have to be fixed before the symptoms are going to go away. Better breeding with careful attention to family disposition. Careful training with special attention to socialization. Careful supervision with special attention to new situations.
If the whole of the population could agree on these things then the problem would almost disappear. Almost. There's still always going to be natures little joker card. Living species were meant to change, and change they will, no matter how careful the breeding, training there will always be a certain percentage (albeit a smaller percentage) of these kinds of things that happen.
Bad breeding can certainly result in a human-aggressive dog. I think in most cases, the HA stems from a variety of factors. Bad breeding + poor socialization + lack of training for things like bite inhibition. Sadly, I've heard the line a few times from people who've bought puppies off iffy parents that they just didn't know that temperament could be hereditary.
Most behaviors are the result of life experiences. Genetic traits influence how creatures respond to life experiences but the life experiences that follow the expression of genetic traits can and will supress or enhance genetic traits.
If you have a dog that is dominant towards humans and is rewarded or unstimulated for aggressive expression then the aggression will increase. The same goes for positive behaviors.
In the end, behavior is trumped by life experience not genetics. Genetics can make the training a whole lot easier but doesn't control behavior.
You could train a Border Collie to fear Sheep, it would be cruel but it could be done.
If you have a dog that is dominant towards humans and is rewarded or unstimulated for aggressive expression then the aggression will increase. The same goes for positive behaviors.
In the end, behavior is trumped by life experience not genetics. Genetics can make the training a whole lot easier but doesn't control behavior.
You could train a Border Collie to fear Sheep, it would be cruel but it could be done.
I agree. It isn't about fault though, IMO, because dogs seem to have no concept of blame or fault.
It's about the dog. If the dog bites with enough aggression to kill a child, it should be destroyed. It isn't the way it was raised, it isn't the breed, it isn't even the owners. It's the dog, the individual. There is something seriously wrong with a dog that will attack and kill a member of its family - I don't give a **** if it's a Pit Bull or a Pekingese..
Stop defending the dog that killed a little girl. Were it a defensive attack, the dog would have stopped once the child retreated. This was a vicious and uncalled for attack and I'm appalled that anyone can even think of saying "it must have been something the child did". I can stand up for a dog that bites in defense of itself. I can't stand up for one that kills.
It's about the dog. If the dog bites with enough aggression to kill a child, it should be destroyed. It isn't the way it was raised, it isn't the breed, it isn't even the owners. It's the dog, the individual. There is something seriously wrong with a dog that will attack and kill a member of its family - I don't give a **** if it's a Pit Bull or a Pekingese..
Stop defending the dog that killed a little girl. Were it a defensive attack, the dog would have stopped once the child retreated. This was a vicious and uncalled for attack and I'm appalled that anyone can even think of saying "it must have been something the child did". I can stand up for a dog that bites in defense of itself. I can't stand up for one that kills.
Some pitbull hater on You Tube used this incident as an excuse to make an anti pitbull video disguised as a memorial tribute to this little girl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42XFyjH-uno
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42XFyjH-uno
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