Tucker bit my dad

I don't know if it's technically a "bite" since he didn't apply pressure, but he made skin contact. I'm not shocked it happened, I suppose it was sort of a matter of time, what with all the growling he's been doing lately. But I still don't know what to do about it.

Last night Tucker jumped onto the end table in the living room (there was nothing there for him to get, I don't know why he went up there). So dad got up, walked over, picked him up to put him back on the ground and Tucker snarled and bit his hand, dad responded by dropping him, mom yelled at him. His response to being yelled at was his usual *run and find a toy to bring them*.

Dad didn't do anything "extra" besides pick him up. Hadn't yelled or said no or anything, just picked him up to put him down.

This is getting kind of ridiculous. He's been using growling and snapping to try and get his way. Every time anyone, including myself, has to move him or pick him up my stomach fills with knots. He had been growling at dad for picking him up to bring him to bed a few months ago. I started having dad give him treats when he'd pick him up for this and the problem went away treats or no treats (at least I'm pretty sure it has, dad's completely deaf in one ear and going in the other, he usually can't hear him growl). I still have him do it sometimes, he never takes the initiative to do it on his own, I have to tell him to. Then he started growling at dad when he tries to get him off of the couch. I had dad make Tucker do a hand touch to move him. He growled at mom when mom hugged him while he was laying down. Growled at me when I picked him up to bring him in from the porch, growled, barked, and snapped at Brian when he tried to push him away from the trash. And now this. It's out of control.


We're going on vacation next week and my aunt and uncle are watching him. I'm afraid to have them crate him at night because he might bite them if they try to put him in. Which of course will be followed by a beating (which on the one hand breaks my heart and on another makes me wonder if it would fix this once and for all).

Yes we could teach him commands to move him in every which way we want. But that doesn't remove the fact that he'd become aggressive if we tried to move him physically, and that's not okay. He doesn't do it every time you pick him up, just when he doesn't want to be picked up (like when he's going to be put in his crate for bed time, or when he's doing something we don't want him to be doing).


I really don't know what to do to make him okay with being moved against his will, but we can't have him biting. Next time he could break the skin, and then we'll have a very serious problem.


What should we do? I know we should probably have a professional involved, but at the moment we are living from unemployment check to unemployment check.

No, do not let them beat him to make him stop this behavior. This will entice him even more. I don't have the answer to this but hope someone else can help you with this situation.

Now these are just my feelings but...

BEATING WILL NOT HELP. Dogs don't think oh, I growl so I get hit so I should be okay with people touching me. They think, oh, I tell this guy to back off and he hurts me, so I should be more forceful in telling him to back off. Just because your dog is physically small, doesn't mean you shouldn't heed his "back off" signals like you would a powerful breed like a Doberman, or Akita.

You DON'T have to physically move your dog. I CAN'T physically pick up and move my dogs. A lot of people on here have Danes, I'm sure a lot of them can't physically force their dogs.

I know money is tight, but I honestly think this could be a medical thing. The aggression to being picked up could mean that your dog is hurt. I can't remember where I heard this, but I heard a training was trying to train and adult GSD to sit by pushing down on the dog's rear. The dog didn't budge, but the trainer kept trying. Finally the dog bit the trainer. A vet found the dog had an abscess or something and it made sitting painful. Aggression is a realistic response when in pain, or when believing you're about to be in pain.

If it is just behavior, then I'm still not really surprised. I feel like your dog has learned that you don't listen to "back off!" so he bit to really drive home the message. I suggest luring for every physical movement you want. Do you free feed him or feed him in the morning? Rather than either of those things use his food to lure him.

He's on the table.
Grab a couple pieces of kibble, put it on the floor, make a noise to get his attention. If he seems interested but isn't going for it, I'd turn around and take a few steps away. You may have to mix a higher value treat in once and a while, but it's a start.

*Only add cues for those that you want to be done on cue, not naturally. For instance, if you NEVER want your dog on the table, don't assign the cue, because he will learn the only time he isn't allowed up there is when you are there and giving the cue. If you want him to go into the crate when you tell him to, assign a cue to that behavior.

I recommend you redo crate training, only avoid physically putting him in there as much as possible. Just make sure that only good things happen in the crate. Give him a new toy in his crate, feed leftover food that you didn't train with in the crate, give him a kong or a treat in his crate. Since it sounds like he dislikes it, don't even worry about closing and locking the door, just change...
Crate=bad
to
Crate=great!

As for the growling when mom hugs, well, hugs don't really mean the same to dogs what they mean to us. In primates, there's this urge to be physically touching, especially chest to chest, and to wrap our arms around each other. In canine body language, and arm over their back is interpreted as a sign of rank. Your mom thinks she's saying "I love you" but what she's really saying is "I'm your superior" his telling her to back off could be simple lack of tolerance for it. I try to hug my dogs as little as possible. It's hard because it makes me feel good, I'm sure I release endorphins and everything, but my dogs always look confused at best, and will leave if they feel like it.

The getting a toy and bringing it to them is appeasement. Dogs are very smart, whether he can hear it in your voice, smell it in your scent, or read it in your body language he knows you are upset (and probably doesn't know why) so he is trying to appease you by giving you something. This is nice, because it means he isn't totally immune to you and he does want to please you.

I think he's just a sensitive boy who finds your moving him too confrontational, especially if you pick him up to stop him from doing something rewarding. Say everytime my dog did something rewarding, say ate something or played with a toy, I picked him up. I'm sure my dog would tell me to stop to. It's so much easier to interrupt a behavior with something positive, than with something negative.

Try keeping food, or a toy on you at all times. Interrupt a negative behavior (trash guarding) with a positive offer (a short game of tug or a treat). This is more management mode, it's stopping him from progressing with the behavior, training mode will stop him from initiating the behavior.

now, I am no great trainer--lol--but I tend to use functional/somewhat practical approaches to get through some undesired behaviors. I think your uncle needs to have a plan--and that he will follow it, or I would not leave Tucker with him (I realize you may have no choice in this, as it's your parents decision)--but leaving Tucker with him in Tucker's current state could result in bigger problems and a bad outcome all together.
I wonder if (for now--you) kept a short leash on Tucker, so that when he needs to be moved, you can use the leash to guide him. Treats would work to help lure him, but having a leash could help move him along as well. It could move the person back from direct handling of Tucker which might also decrease his need to snap/growl, etc. Just a thought.

That does sound good. I think it's better than picking him up, but I think if he can make the choice to get down or move on his own (even if he's being rewarded for it) then that is the ideal. Since he's a small dog, you can get a short 2-3ft leash. Don't leave it on him while you aren't around though, as accidents can happen.

The first thing I would do, would be run Tucker into the vet to rule out any health issues that could be causing this reaction when he is picked up.

No worries, I wasn't planning on letting anyone beat him, it was frustration talking. Because everyone, and I mean everyone, our family knows hits their dogs when they misbehave. Some do it severely (like my uncle who made his dog urinate all over herself when he beat her last time...for messing up the bed while they were at work (she burrows)), others a whack on the rump while yelling. But I honestly don't know anyone who doesn't hit outside of this forum, and more importantly neither do my parents. And none of these people's dogs bite them or misbehave nearly as much as Tucker. My parents hit Max for misbehaving and he was the sweetest dog on the planet. So my parents place some of the blame on me, because I will not allow them to hit him for growling. I know it could and likely would make things drastically worse, and I think it's abusive. We've seen what beatings have done to Phoebe, the shell of a dog she's become, and none of us want Tucker to be like that.


I do think we should be able to move the dog without worrying about getting bit. If he wants something enough to bite us he is also likely to blow off any commands. And then we'll just stand there calling him while he gets on with what he's doing because we're all too afraid to move him.

He refuses to go to bed. He'll go upstairs on all occasions except when it's bed time, because he knows he's going into the crate all night. He HAS to be crated every night. That's why I had dad give him treats when he picked him up for bed, because he was going to do something negative with him. I could teach him to go to his crate on command, but he still would likely say no if he knew it was time to spend 8-9 hours in there, as that's the case every night. And I wouldn't even say he hates the crate. It's a struggle to get him out in the morning, he doesn't cry most night, he sleeps like a baby. What he hates is being permanently taken away from what's going on downstairs. If it's bed time he will often not go in the crate for treats, kongs, or bully sticks (and then sometimes he does with zero issues, depends on if he's tired).


You might not be able to pick up a large dog but you can lead them by their collars. It would be like a dog biting for that, in fact Tucker probably would.

I do not think it's physical because he only reacts when he is picked up when he's busy. For instance he does enjoy being hugged. He's one of the cuddliest dogs I've ever met, extremely handleable under normal circumstances. He never shows any calming signals when being hugged or cuddled. He growled at mom because he was about to go to sleep and didn't want to be moved, which is understandable, but still worrying.

I'm afraid to bust out treats each time he does something wrong because I'm afraid he'll just do it more. If every time he jumps on the table I grab treats to lure him off he's likely to jump on the table more. Which is better than biting, but certainly not GOOD. And he could still just blow me off (as he would if there was something worth blowing me off for) and there's nothing I can do about it.

We'll work on commands to move him, but I still would like to not worry about loosing a chunk of flesh if he blows me off and I need to move him.

Sorry a bunch of people posted while I was typing. I'll have to read them and get back to you. I apologize for any negative tones in my post. This issue is just really upsetting me as I go to school in a few weeks and it's killing me leaving him like this.

Alicia's mention of size was what was going through my head reading your post If the dog growls when you pick him up, then don't pick him up no? There are plenty of ways to move a dog that don't involve picking him up

But if you teach him commands, you won't need to move him physically right? So its a mute point.
Commands that are properly taught hold up even when the dog doesn't want to. Because if you build up enough of a reinforcement for a behavior, the dog will WANT to do the behavior.

Well, let me ask you this. Are YOU okay with being moved against your will? Do you respond with passivity and compliance if someone tries to force something you don't like on you? Why should it be any different for a dog? Because they're dogs and they don't get to have free will? Doesn't work that way
The point I'm trying to make is that its not about making him okay with being moved against his will, its about making him WANT to move when you ask him to - does that make sense?

I think Alicia gave you great advice, and I would also second the idea of keeping a short leash on him and use the leash to guide and a treat to lure if you need to. Just be sure to fade the lure after 3 or 4 reps otherwise it turns in to a bribe, and your next post will be "he won't move unless we have a treat"

Please don't let anyone beat your dog

one question - does this behavior "fit" with his other behavior and did it gradually get worse or is it totally abnormal and sudden?

Just asking, because the former sounds more behavioral and the latter sounds more likely to be medical. Doesn't mean that he shouldn't have a physical exam, but just going off of your previous posts about Tucker's behavior, it sounds like this is more of a behavioral thing.

If he were usually a happy go lucky little guy who would let you do anything and everything to him, but suddenly is growling when you touch him in a certain spot or whenever you pick him up, I'd worry about a physical cause. But you seem to have narrowed down the behavior more to a specific mental state rather than a specific physical one.

I don't feel comfortable giving advice on such a serious issue. I will tell you a little story that stuck with me, though. I recall someone on the board taking in an aggressive golden retriever (Boris was his name, maybe?? Could be very wrong) who had some serious resource guarding issues (both of possessions and locations). One time, he was on the couch - I think they were implementing a NILIF policy to start from scratch regarding his issues (could be wrong... if you remember this story, correct me) - obviously they couldn't reach in to grab him off the couch so they went behind it and flipped the whole thing upside down. The dog was certainly surprised! But it stuck with me because it was an instance of the human thinking outside of the box. Obviously that was just a baby step and didn't even begin to address the mental state below the behavior, but it did get me thinking that sometimes the best approach isn't necessarily the easy one to think of.

Keeping the leash on him is good, we were doing that anyways until his neck got messed up by his collar. So lately I've only put it on when he's most spazzy so that I could put him in time outs for cat chasing without picking him up, to try and avoid him seeing being picked up as bad. Little good that did. So if he blows off commands we'll use the leash and hopefully he'll figure out ignoring commands does no good. As I understand it the day he growled and snapped at my brother they had all used the come command to no avail and they were more concerned about preventing him from eating the chicken carcass we had just thrown in there than being non-confrontational (I wasn't home).


No I wouldn't like being physically moved, but I also wouldn't punch a friend or family member for trying. But I suppose I might growl lol. But I also wouldn't expect a human to sit on the floor if the dog was taking up a seat on the couch.


I do have a feeling when I tell my parents they can't move him I'm going to get some opposition. I still think I'd like to desensitize him to some of it. Especially moving him off the couch. In that case it's not all that negative. We're not even making him stay off. We just need to make room for our butts, then he can come back on.


I understand why you say not to pick him up if he doesn't like it. But I know you wouldn't suggest the same thing if say, he stopped liking us to brush him or didn't like us to sit on the couch next to him. Then there would be something we could do to change his mind about being brushed or sharing the couch. Why not in this case? Is it just too confrontational a behavior?



I wouldn't call it gradual or sudden really.The growling when being moved from the couch or being brought to bed has been longer term (I don't remember exactly when it started, it might have been while I was in school but I'm not sure. But the going to bed behavior has gotten MUCH worse since I've been home because he doesn't want to go upstairs while I'm awake downstairs. If I've already gone to bed he has no problems going to bed) The more sudden part of it is that growling turned to snapping and biting. The first time he's ever snapped at anyone (besides a looong time ago when he was guarding stolen items) was on Monday when he snapped at my brother over the trash. Then yesterday he bit dad. The severity in this last week is what has us all on edge.

I'm afraid to say I might have triggered the problem to be more severe. Last weekend he found a chicken bone outside when I had run inside to get sun glasses for those posed pictures I would later take. I came out and he was over by my uncle's door and I could tell he had something. I ran and picked him up and told him to drop it. He wouldn't so I started freaking out because I didn't want him to eat it and I had nothing to offer so I tried to pry his mouth open and failed. So then I tried scruffing him and smacking his mouth and he just ate it. So yeah, I felt all sorts of awful afterwards, I'm tearing up thinking about it, I've never hit him before, I don't like hitting my animals and I shouldn't have done it but I didn't want him to eat the bone, I wanted to get it out.
Afterwards we did the photoshoot which cheered both of us up (he got lots of string cheese).

That happened on Friday I think...Then he growled at me for bringing him in from the porch on Sunday, growled and snapped at my brother on Monday, growled at my mom for hugging him on Monday, and bit dad yesterday (Saturday).


So it's probably my fault that it went from growling to biting.

Well maybe I misread your OP. It sounded like you were picking him up to move him. Which as those of us with bigger dogs know, is not the only way to get dog from point A to point B.
So, are you wanting to pick him up to pick him up, or are you wanting the dog to move?
If you want him to move, he's quite capable of doing it himself with proper training. If you want to be able to pick him up, absolutely, desensitize and counter condition. Right now for him being picked up means being put in to a crate (where he doesn't want to be) or taken away from a fun or comfy spot. Turn picking up in to a wonderful thing and the growling and biting will become a non-issue.

I feel your frustration Erin--I know how much you want to make Tucker a positively trained dog, and how hard that has been with your families views on training. It is a shame that the timing of all of this occurred for you to go off to college.
Does Tucker wear a harness at all? Maybe the leash on a harness would work to avoid any problems with his neck. Obviously I am going for the short/quick solution while you figure out a longer term training solution. I recognize time is of the essence here--when do you go back to school? Soon, right? Then it is up to your parents to deal with this. ((HUGS)) I know how tough this must be for you.

Yes we were picking him up to move him. Can you not condition a dog to be okay with that? Is it too negative a situation to teach the dog it's not terrible to be moved?


I am going back to school on the 30th. I haven't even been able to get either of my parents to carry treats because they leave crumbs in their pockets. Expecting them to actually put in any training time is almost laughable. So I'm hoping if I can take the time to teach him the actual commands they'll be able to incorporate them into daily life and reward him for that and he'll listen to them. I'll still need to convince them to carry treats *crosses fingers*.


I'll work on an off command. More importantly I'll work on getting my parents to say off instead of down. The poor dog must wonder why nobody is rewarding him for lying down on the couch when they ask him to get down

(((((hugs))))) That sounds incredibly frustrating and I'm really sorry. I don't have anything to add as you've already gotten good advice but wanted to tell you I KNOW how irritating parents can be. My dad scared the hell out of Mu when she was a baby and then was mad at her for two years because she didn't like him. He's finally gotten better about listening to me when I ask him not to do things but it was a long hard battle. I hope your parents come around sooner rather than later. ((((morehugs))))

A bit outside the box, but what about teaching him to jump into your arms? Make it *his* choice to get there. I'd start with him on a table, and shape getting into your arms, then start using lower objects until he can jump into them from the couch at least. Make it a game, and for now, do not use it when in negative situations - just use the dragged leash to move him for now. Make jumping into your arms the best thing ever until it is a really solid behavior, then use it for actually moving him (10% of the time. The rest of the time, practice it just for fun.)

What do you mean by "his neck got messed up" bu his collar? Some dogs develop issues being picked up due to back or neck injuries or pain from something like a tumor or kidney stones or.... I have seen this countless times at the grooming shop, so the suggestions that it could be medical are valid.

Please read this article about how dog bites happen, I think it will shed some light on the situation and why you may be seeing increasing aggression: How Are Dog Bites Like Tetris?

I'm assuming Tucker is pretty small dog, since picking him up is used to move him. Dog do not naturally enjoy being lifted and many small dogs develop issues about being picked up. It is a very vulnerable position for them to be in. That said, I do think it's good to be able to lift your dog and all of my dogs are tolerant of being picked up and carried (they range from 20-55lbs). Ruling out any medical reason Tucker doesn't enjoy being picked up, I'd work on slowly desensitizing him to being lifted. Think of each tiny step that goes into picking a dog up then work on treating him for tolerating or better offering each step. First step would be for him to come over to you, close enough to be picked up. Use extremely good treats, call him and treat him. Once he aces that, call him and treat him between your feet. The reason for treating between your feet is to get him comfortable with coming very close to your body (many small dogs are uncomfortable with this). After that, you'll treat him for coming to you and you bending over him slightly, then more and more. Then you'll reward him for allowing you to touch him while you are bent over him. Then putting your hand on him for increasing amounts of time. Then being touched with two hands while you bend over him. Then two hands touching him for increasing amount of time. Then positioning your hands as though you will lift him. Then slightly lifting him, etc, etc. If at any point, Tucker begins to show stress signals during this training (avoidance, licking lips, yawning, turning head away, freezing, tensing muscles) Go back a step or two to where he was successful and progress more gradually the next time. The goal for each step is that he is happily looking forward to what you do because he is expecting a reward - "Good! She's about to bend over me, so I get a treat!".

For these training sessions, use treats that he doesn't ever get otherwise, such as meaty baby food, canned green tripe, steak, liver. Work on this only for 5 minutes at the most at a time and end sessions while he still wants more treats. If Tucker is free-fed, you will need to start feeding him meals and picking up the food when he's done. Food is too valuable of a resource to allow him to have for "free". Before you put his meal down ask him to sit or even better use some of his meal to have a short training session. Have him sit and down for a piece of kibble. Teach him to do a new trick each week. The more you work with him, the more comfortable he'll become with interaction and the more he'll understand the training process. If you're parents don't want to carry treats in their pockets, buy some decorative jars and stash treats around the house for them to use.

You say he enjoys being hugged but then you say he bit your mom for hugging him. Most dogs do not enjoy being hugged. Hugging is a primate thing, not a canine thing. To many dogs, hugging is retraining, "weird" and makes them uncomfortable. (hugging dogs TheOtherEndoftheLeash). You can also desensitize him to hugging in the same way as being picked up.

It has taken Tucker awhile to get to the point where his behavior concerns you enough that you think something need to be done. It will also take time to change his behavior towards being more acceptable. What he is doing is not abnormal behavior, it's normal dog communication but communication that humans find unacceptable. The snapping hasn't been sudden at all, he's been giving plenty of warnings that he was becoming increasingly uncomfortable with certain things.

If he is uncomfortable being crated, work on crating a little bit at a time. Feed him all of his meals in his crate, make it a game by tossing handfuls of food in for him to get. Create a bedtime ritual with him and his crate. Lock a super good treat that he almost never gets in his crate a little while before bedtime. Let him see it and worry a bit about how he is going to get to it. Then once he's convinced that what he really wants is to get into the crate, open the door and let him in.

As for him having to stay with people who will beat him, obviously that is going to be a problem. Isn't there any other option? If not, is there anyway you can tell them that he hurt himself (maybe a soft tissue injury to his neck?) and that he is why he has been cranky lately. So they must be very careful with him so he doesn't further hurt himself (or he could DIE!). That would help encourage them to both handle him in a more careful, gentle manner and not get physical with him.

I'm sure I'll be the odd one out here, but that is just ridiculous. He is a DOG, you should be able to do whatever you want to him without being afraid he'll bite you. Dogs are supposed to be companions, fun, you shouldn't be afraid to do anything to your dog, IMO. My dogs are passed out asleep right now and I could go pick them up and put them wherever I wanted to without them doing anything.

All of this "well would YOU like being moved if you didn't want to move" talk is just silly to me.. that's called putting human emotions on a dog aka anthropomorphizing. It doesn't matter if we as humans wouldn't like to be moved, this is a dog we're talking about. I suppose if you wanted to put a human action to it, it'd be similar to if someone asked me to move and just because I didn't want to, I stabbed the person. Would that be tolerated? I highly doubt it.

If he were a large breed dog, Pit Bull, Dobe, Rottie, etc., and he bit, what would everyone say? Would the nipping, growling, etc. behavior be as tolerated?

Sorry, but that kind of crap is not and will never be tolerated with me. The first thing I'd do is have a vet exam him to make sure it's not a pain issue. If it's not, and you're willing to work hard, a behaviorist needs to be involved.

I personally have zero tolerance for any type of HA behavior and would euthanize any of my dogs if they bit me, or someone else, unless there was a major reason for them to do so, like if they were trying to protect me from someone trying to do harm to me, or if they were in severe pain.

Kady, I get what you're saying because we have pit bulls.
Unfortunately, our dogs have to have super powers and be, well, NOT DOGS, in order for it to be considered our dogs are good dogs.

But when Luke was a puppy, he had resource guarding issues and would growl at us and Ophie if we went near him when he had a high value item.

Did I put up with it? Hell no.
But did I give up and put him to sleep or expect it to magically change on its own? Nope.

I consulted a behaviorist, had her pay me a visit, and I started a strict (yet friendly and fun) protocol to help change the behavior.

Now? Now I can take stuff from him, and he almost more than allows me. And THANK GOD because that dog sure knows how to get a hold of stuff he shouldn't have.

But the on-going joke in my house is that I tell Ophie she'd never survive in the wild because she allows anyone and anything to take stuff from her.
I tell Luke he's my Wild Survivor because it'd be a cold day in HELL before another animal is going to take food from him.

But humans could. Because I changed that portion of his behavior.