Eeek! Take a look...

Check out this persons articles! I can't believe people take them seriously!

It's abuse!

http://www.leerburg.com/746.htm

http://www.leerburg.com/equip.htm#agit (they sell whips...?!)

~Tucker

LOL!!!

Really, do you honestly think we beat the dogs with the whips? LOL, sorry that is too funny. They are used to "agitate" the dogs, not to whip them when they are bad. Wow, I really suggest you look into things before you assume things. No one in their right mind would purposely whip a dog (might tap them on the back ith the stick as part of the exercise) but come on.

I don't even get it...

Get what???

I can't stand that guy and his abusive methods.

If you all knew some of the methods used by pro trainers for field trials you all would flip!
Sling shots and marbles. Ehem It gets better.
I couldnt believe people shot marbles at thier dogs in the field.:yikes:
Not everyone does this but theres quite a few.

Let's just say that Leerburg is on the opposite of my list of favorite people....

I hear that, LOL. If you guys saw how they train PSD's you would have a heart attack and die. The dominant dog collar are for those dogs who are drivey and have dominant tendencies towards the handler. Do you know how dangerous it would be having a handler agressive dog, patroling the streets? And just because a dog is handler agressive doesnt make him a bad dog, in ways that makes him a good dog in the sense that it proves the dog has agression. You want dominant, fearless dogs for police dogs, just not those who are handler agressive.

Also the dominant dog collar is no different than a choke chain. I see people all the time pick up their dog by the collar to get the toy or sleeve from the dog (while they are in the middle of training the out or if you have a very stubborn dog). Believe me, dogs in high drive are not as affected as you think, by lifting their front legs off the floor. When they are in drive their dont feel things the way they would if they are calm.

BTW, I am not going to debate this with anyone, not worth it .

I agree with that. Alot of training techniques used on high drive dogs that seem mean or abusive to others doesnt effect them like you would think they would. E-Collar is a good example.
Like I have said a thousand times. Everyone has thier own way of doing things.

I wont even get into the e-collar argument , not trying to open up that can of worms, . But I completely agree with you. There is more than one way of doing things. And with high drive dogs, a flat collar isnt always going to work, and it will do little good when your dogs are not on leash (as your dogs are off leash for the most part). My new philosophy is that there is three things you dont discuss with people: religion, politics and DOG TRAINING, lol/jk.

So...having a dog that wants to attack it's handler out on the streets is a good thing? I'm supposed to believe that, and feel safe around a dog like that?

Gaddy, incase you didnt see it,

GOOD trainers rarely need to use choking style collars, prong collars or shock collars.

It has nothing to do with how hard or "driven" your dog is, either. A dog with a lot of drive is a perfect candidate for positive reinforcement training - and done properly, there's little or no reason to have to use a huge corrective collar to add control. Unfortunately too many "trainers" out there use the excuse that their dogs are that hard, when it comes down to their inability or unwillingness to use other methods.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - these collars and methods are due to people's laziness in training. It can take more effort to train using kinder methods at times, so people go to something fast even if it compromises the relationship (and they can't see that this happens because they don't know any different).

I have worked with hard dogs - dogs with high prey drive - dogs that tested high as potential protection dogs. I didn't need harsh methods because I worked with the dog and didn't feel I had to force the dog to do anything. Yes, I use some corrections and yes, I'm familiar with how choke collars, prong collars and shock collars work. I rarely use these - and I fully admit when/if I do that I'm probably taking a shortcut. I'm pretty darn honest about how I train.

Leerburg is well known for harsh training methods - hanging dogs, "helicoptering' them around off the ground at the end of a leash and prong collar, etc. Some people follow his methods, unfortunately. And like most trainers, he does have an occasional concept that is valid. But overall he is not someone I would EVER recommend to a person for training advice.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

Gaddy, I totally agree. Melanie, I totally agree. I know of police forces who are turning to positive reinforcement/clicker training. I also have seen many hunting dogs trained beautifully without the use of e-collars. One man if particular who comes to mind I knew trained his dog to perfection and he was never harsh and never used corrective collars.

Ed Frawley needs a good session with Cesar Millan and a pinch collar.

I wouldn't feel comfortable around one of his dogs trained with such coercive and imbalanced methods. One slip from the handler and the dog would be all over someone.

I fail to see where handler aggression is a good thing. A dog that is so misdirected that it needs to attack its handler as a way to blow off some steam is not safe and has no place in law enforcement imo. Drive should not take the place of stability - I'd rather see a dog that needs a little encouragement but is trustworthy and stable, than one that has plenty of drive but could fly off the handle at any minute.

But I'm not arguing with you GSD, and I know you don't whip your dogs. You just whack'em with rakes

Hehe

Sorry, I just assumed a whip is for WHIPPING something.



And I Don't agree at all with hanging a dog.

Does this seem humane to you...?

I will set a dog up by putting a hidden sleeve on. Then I will have a second handler there for back-up and for safety. I will have a line over a tree limb with the line hanging down near the level of my knee.

I heel the dog to this location and attach the line to the dominant dog collar. At that point I will do something that causes the dog to attack me. When he does I offer the arm with the hidden sleeve. When the dog is biting the arm the second handler will raise the dogs 4 feet off the ground. I remain totally calm and look the dog in the eye and tell him he will not bite me.

The dog stays there until he passes out. Then he is lowered to the ground and lies there until he regains consciousness. Then we start again. Usually these kind of dogs will only have to be hung 2 or 3 times and they quickly learn that you are a big person - the way they look at it is that you have the power to kill them at any time. This is a big big point in establishing dominance with dogs like this.


~Tucker

Yeah I don't think it should be necessary to LIFT A DOG OFF THE GROUND BY HIS NECK to teach him something. And take a look at their disclaimer:

"Dog Training is never without risk of injury. Do not attempt these techniques yourself without consulting a professional.
Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. cannot be held responsible for accidents or injuries to humans and/or animals."

Dog training is never without risk of injury?????? Well, I guess that could be true if you count my dog jumping up and bopping me in the nose...

Yeah, I am not at all a fan of this guy. I came across this website of his while looking for information on wolves and hybrids:

http://www.leerburg.com/wolfcross.htm


Now, I've seen a lot of sites that will warn that wolf hybrids are difficult, unpredictable, possibly dangerous...and most state that they are defintiely not for the casual owner and a LOT of precautions need to be taken before owning one. This is a GOOD thing. But his site was by far the most extremist attitude toward them I've seen... he literally says in one of his e-mail replies that he thinks they should all be destroyed, every last one. I can understand being wary of them... it is not a matter of thinking that everyone is "wrong" and there is no danger involved with having one.... but most people can at least debate the pros and cons intelligently. Oh no, not him, just look at what he has to say to wolf hybrid owners in the e-mails he posted on his site! He has no interest in having an intelligent conversation about them...to him, anyone who even thinks about having one is a stupid redneck who's going to end up with a killing machine on their hands, and anyone who writes to him with a different opinion is basically going to end up getting a really rude e-mail full of a lot of insults and high-and-mighty judgements.

The internet is full of people like this; it's just unfortunate that one of them has made a business of training dogs. You'd think being around dogs so long would teach him a little compassion and patience.

Here's a real winner from him... the e-mail someone sent to his site:

Hello, I was directed to your website via a friend from a Volkswagen forum I visit.

My roommate has a wolf-dog, it will turn 1 year old in November, and I'd like to start by saying before I lived with this thing I absolutely adored dogs. I hated cats. After living with this thing since April I'm in love with our cat and I want to suffocate the dog with a pillow.

We've had almost every problem in the book with this thing:

1. Submissive urination (it was so extreme with me I just stopped letting the dog out when I got home from work/class altogether, I couldn't even pet it for the first 6 months without it peeing upon my touch)

2. It does not respond to normal obedience training (my roommate also blames this on me and his girlfriend for not assisting him with its training), it takes my roommate several tough tries and usually physical force to get the thing to sit/lay down, when we're eating we all have to take turns yelling at it to get out and standing up to try and chase it out (it's like a furry wingless vulture, it'll grab food out of your hand if you turn your head)

3. It enjoys tearing stuff up like paper towel and toilet paper but loves my roommates girlfriend's underwear and shoes (this actually concerns me it seems to only chew her possessions)

4. It was able to jump the fence in the yard after the first few weeks we moved into the house, my roommate has since extended the fence by an extra 2 feet, it still was able to get over, so he switched to one of the screw-type tie outs, it broke the screw in half, and then we went to a zip line, it yanked one out of the side of the house along with the wooden board it was screwed into, it is not spayed (which also worries me), and we live next door to 5-7 year old girls that enjoy playing outside. It also loves to dig holes.

5. It really likes to "play" with the cat, albeit the cat does egg her on by attacking her tail, but sometimes I round the corner to find the cat's head in the dog's mouth which really scares me

6. It just will not stop biting, a lot of times it's just merely holding your hand with its mouth, but there are many times where it gives a pretty good chomp down on your leg/groin/arm/hand/even face

7. If I'm the only one home I CANNOT sleep in if it's caged because of it's excessive howling/barking, my roommate's girlfriend has actually cried before because the dog would not let her sleep when she was the only one home.

After a few months of living with the dog, I researched a lot about it online (I had zero knowledge on wolf-hybrid's and I don't believe my roommate had any either), and I came across some startling facts you're obviously well aware of and have published on your website without bias. I showed this information to my roommate, but it seemed to impact him at all, and he felt that if he focused on training the dog properly he could overcome these "obstacles". I think it's more an ego thing with him, I feel like he got the dog so he could tell people "yea, I got a wolf..." but I think he feels he'd look stupid if he got rid of it almost a year later. My prayers almost came true when an anonymous neighbor reported the dog to the local police (they're 100% illegal to own here) but my roommate was able to get papers from the breeder stating the dog was nothing more than a malamute. I gave up on trying to convince him to get rid of it (as it was a huge strain on our friendship) but I'm still very worried something bad will happen with the dog; either it attacks one of the neighbor girls or maybe his 10 year old nephews or hell even challenge his girlfriend for her place in the pack hierarchy or something. Is there any advice you could offer me?

Thank you for the website and any info you can help me with
-MT

P.S. I apologize for any odd grammar, I've been typing this up in between customers at work.

Ed's reply:

Your email made me laugh – I shared it with a friend – we both had a good laugh.

Get a GLOCK – shoot this hybrid before it hurts someone – which it will – or get a new room mate. Life is too short for this .

If this response doesn't disturb you... I can't believe someone like this makes his living training dogs. Granted, the e-mailer said that the wolfdog was illegal in the state he lived in....so the people should not own it. Even if they could, it also needs proper containment, and it sounds like a LOT of training, and major help with the training (I can think of telling them to stop physically forcing it to go outside, and stop yelling at it and confusing it, get it spayed, just off the top of my head)... But this person took the time to write a very detailed account of what this wolfdog is like, the problems he's having, and IT ISN'T EVEN HIS DOG... and this guy's reponse is to say that he found the e-mail FUNNY, and then advise the guy to SHOOT the wolfdog... no suggestions for rescue organizations which could possibly take it in, no tips for helping with the chewing and other behavior problems... no sympathy or advice whatsoever, except to tell him to shoot his roommate's dog or move out. (Isn't the guy supposed to be a cop? Couldn't you get in trouble with the law for blowing someone else's dog away? sheesh)

Don't feel silly Tucker, in the context of what this idiot does it's no wonder you thought what you did.

I'm at the point now where I find it almost laughable that anyone would condone or subscribe to any of his methods. It just shows his total lack of understanding.

I only wish that just one of the people who agree with such methods would actually learn how to train without them instead of falling back on them.

Like Melanie and Dober and others on here have said, it's the high drive dogs who excell using positive methods...
The "theory" that these "hard" dogs can't be trained using positive methods and must have choke chains and harsh physical correction is utter nonsense.

And as Doberluv said, many police departments are turning to clicker methods because the research and results prove that it creates a more stable and predictable working dog that is every bit as capable.

I have to also say that as far as any dog requiring a shock collar for specific behaviors, that too has been dispelled.