Please help..puppy bit child...

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#1
Two weeks ago, I got a mixed breed basset/Catahoula hound mix from a friend of mine. He was 8 weeks old when I got him. He was from a litter of three. He was the most attentive, first out of the crate (when she brought them to meet me) very friendly, curious, not scared at all. I liked that he was bold, I already have a scared of her shadow basset hound, and didn't want another one.
Anyway. I fell in love, and home with me he came. First of all, my other two dogs sniffed him and left him alone. They were not like they usually are when they meet a new dog. Usually my Saint turns himself inside out trying to sniff/play/harass!! This pup he sniffed, and left alone. He and the pup have been wonderful together. They play and often sleep together. My elder basset hound (female) has gotten after him a couple times if he disturbs her slumber, but otherwise co-habitates fine with him.
Okay, on to the problem.
I have three children, 11,5 and 4. The youngest is a girl, she is very easy going, not hyper or obnoxious.
Yesterday she attempted to "Kiss" Sarge (the pup) and he bit her on the face. He left two small puncture wounds, and scratched her chin. She is ok, but I was very upset. My children have never been harmed by a dog, they trust and love them and are respectful in the fact that there is no rough play, the dogs all have "safe zones" where they go to be left completely alone (and the kids respect this space). I was ready to send the pup back from whence he came, but my husband is completely head over heals for him, and says we should not give up, we should try to work through this.
Now, I am completely willing to work through his issues, IF the work will work!!
Last night, after the bite, the kids went to bed, and Sarge was sent to bed as well.
Today I worked all day and thought and thought of what I could do.
Tonight, when we were all home, we set ground rules.
1. Sarge works for everything. Right now, he sits to go outside, sits to come inside, sits and waits and is released with a "OK" for food. Down on command to sit on the couch with hubby. I would rather not have him on the couch, but hubby is weird that way and wants him up there.
We had each of the kids take a turn in the evening here, doing one thing or another, having him obey each one before getting the reward.

So tonight I get curious. Why did he bite my daughter? He's such a laid back, easy going and SMART pup...
So, I put my face by his face (which is what she did when she kissed him) and he growled. I told him NO (loudly and firmly) and kept my face there. When he quieted and laid still, I removed my face and praised him.

Did I do the right thing?
Sorry about the book, but want you all to have the history to better help you dispense advice!! I don't want to give up on him, but I won't put my children in harm either. HELP PLEASE!! thank you all.
 

bubbatd

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#2
I've never seen aggression at such an early age ... play nipping , yes , but no growling . I hope someone here has an answer for you . Sorry !!
 

Buddy'sParents

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#3
Normally I would suggest seeking a behaviorist in your area.. but a puppy that young? I'm at a loss... I hope some of our trainers on here will be able to give you some advice.

Good luck.
 

Buddy'sParents

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#4
Wait, was he nipping and it accidentally got her? Or was it an aggressive move?

I play rough with my boys sometimes and they mouth me... but I've never been hurt by them...
 

Zoom

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#5
In dog language, that position is a very rude and challenging one and the puppy was telling you this. I don't think he so much meant to bite to be mean, but as a very clear signal that he does not like his space invaded in such a manner. It's nothing that should be allowed to continue and you are already starting a good regimen of NILIF. I would also consult a behaviorist in your area for further in person training. It's hard to see body cues over the internet, unfortunetly.

One thing I would change is forcing him to accept such an uncomfortable position right away. You already know he doesn't like it...make him like it. Don't scold him for telling you he's uncomfortable, that is taking away one of his few defenses. Instead, make your face near his an enjoyable game. Start off slowly, but move down on eye level with him (don't stare directly at him) and if he seems happy and not nervous, give him a yummy treat that you take from your mouth (you may want to use something you don't mind the taste of, such as hot dogs). Work from a distance at first, then as his comfort level increases, move your face closer and closer, but always slowly. Don't push him beyond what he's happy with; you are working on desensitizing, not forcing him to accept anything and everything you do.

The final step you might want to attempt is for him to take a treat gently from your mouth. But at any given time, if it becomes apparent that direct face to face contact is not something he will ever like, don't push the issue. In the grand scheme of things, being able to kiss him is a very small thing. It's also a purely primate action; the closest thing dogs do to kissing are pups licking adult's mouths in submission and greeting. It's not really something that has a cross-species translation.
 

Rubylove

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#6
In dog language, that position is a very rude and challenging one and the puppy was telling you this. I don't think he so much meant to bite to be mean, but as a very clear signal that he does not like his space invaded in such a manner. It's nothing that should be allowed to continue and you are already starting a good regimen of NILIF. I would also consult a behaviorist in your area for further in person training. It's hard to see body cues over the internet, unfortunetly.

One thing I would change is forcing him to accept such an uncomfortable position right away. You already know he doesn't like it...make him like it. Don't scold him for telling you he's uncomfortable, that is taking away one of his few defenses. Instead, make your face near his an enjoyable game. Start off slowly, but move down on eye level with him (don't stare directly at him) and if he seems happy and not nervous, give him a yummy treat that you take from your mouth (you may want to use something you don't mind the taste of, such as hot dogs). Work from a distance at first, then as his comfort level increases, move your face closer and closer, but always slowly. Don't push him beyond what he's happy with; you are working on desensitizing, not forcing him to accept anything and everything you do.

The final step you might want to attempt is for him to take a treat gently from your mouth. But at any given time, if it becomes apparent that direct face to face contact is not something he will ever like, don't push the issue. In the grand scheme of things, being able to kiss him is a very small thing. It's also a purely primate action; the closest thing dogs do to kissing are pups licking adult's mouths in submission and greeting. It's not really something that has a cross-species translation.
Well said. Putting your face in another dog's face is a good way to ask to get bitten! Many dogs could care less how close your face is to theirs, but many don't like it - and that's perfectly ok. I wouldn't like having someone's face right in mine, too - and would tell them so. Dogs have no other way of communicating what makes them nervous or fearful or uncomfortable so a growl is a communication tool. Possibly that's what happened first with your daughter, too, and when that didn't work she got a bite. You are lucky you didn't get one - particularly since you forced the issue. I'm not being harsh you did what you thought was right, and you ended the experience with a kind word and a treat, which is good - I'm just saying - don't do it again! The other stuff you are doing - NILIF and so forth - fantastic.

It could also have been play - puppies are very mouthy and will often have a nip at whatever is in their vicinity - but given that he growled when you replicated the behaviour, I would be more careful of it and treat is as something your puppy just doesn't like.

It's ok for dogs to have things they don't like - they need respect and boundaries as well as us. You don't want your dog biting at faces, ever, so you need to follow some advice such as Zoom gave you, and desensitise your dog to this. Like I said, it's ok for them to have things they don't like - but it's not ok for them to bite us when they don't like something! You need to get your puppy to the stage that if someone inadvertently puts their face near his, and he doesn't like it, he responds in a different way.

Dogs don't often bite for no reason, so you need to work out what the triggers are and then teach the dog to cope with them - but not by forcing, and by going slowly, gently and carefully. Your dog doesn't like being kissed on the face, and that's fine, but he needs to be taught how to express his fear/dislike/anxiety in a non-aggressive way.

We mustn't suppress our dogs' communicating with us - it's the best indicator of how they are going to behave, and what they're doing. Most dogs will give some kind of a warning - biting is often a last resort. Your dog has warned you, and you need to listen to him and respect his boundaries, the same way you expect him to respect yours. If you suppress his means of communication by putting him in a situation where he feels he has no other option but to bite you, in order to get out of that situation, then you will have a far bigger problem.

Good luck to you, and don't hesitate to let us know how you're going or ask for more help should you need it.
 

Cheetah

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#7
I was bitten by a dog when I was 5 for getting in its face when my grandmother told me not to. I never did it again, and went on to tell my little cousin over and over again to stop getting in the face of my grandmother's next dog. She didn't listen and she got bitten as well. My family never considered this to be a problem with the dogs, because it is very threatening and rude in dog language to push your face into another dog's face. Humans and dogs have totally different languages/cultures. Unfortunately, little kids don't realize this, and for some reason love to get into the faces of animals lmao...

Your puppy could have felt threatened by your daughter being in his face, became scared, and bit out of simple fear. Dogs aren't born knowing that us being in their faces isn't meant to be a threat... it's something they have to learn. >^^;<

Your puppy might also have play-bitten, but, with those needle-sharp puppy teeth, hurt your daughter on accident. My corgi pup was very nippy when I first brought him home, and any time I put my face ANYWHERE near the floor, he wanted to jump up to lick and NIP at it. Those needle teeth hurt! He drew blood from me unintentionally several times before he lost his puppy teeth (while I was trying to teeth bite inhibition/when he jumped up trying to grab a toy from me, etc).
 

krisykris

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#8
Sometimes when I put my face down to kiss my new puppy she bites my nose, cheek, ect.. but it's in play. She's still a baby.

I hope you get the help you need and that someone can answer this for you!!

Good luck!
 

pancho

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#9
The catahoula is a high energy, slightly aggressive, work dog. Crossing with the basset will weaken this trait but it will still be a strong willed dog. Training should be started immediately. Each member of the family should take part in the training and should handle the dog.

The dog will be a very strong dog when mature and should be a solid heavier dog. He should be trained when he is still young as it will be difficult to train and control when it matures. It should make a very nice dog but may need more exercise than your other dogs.
 
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#10
Thank you so much everyone! I knew you guys would be able to help me!! Ok, so I am going to try what was suggested. I agree, if it's rude to put your face in a dogs face, we should not do it, however - as someone stated - with kids you can never guarantee that it won't ever happen, so he has to accept it to a certain extent, and we will respect it with him.

There was one other quick question I had in regards to Sarge. When I first picked him up, I took him to my best friends to get him wormed right away (she had the wormer). She has three dogs in her house. A pit bull, a rat terrier mix and a beagle. When I took Sarge in her house, he growled whenever the other dogs would come near, and if they pushed the issue, he'd bark and lunge at them...is this normal? Is it a personality trait that I need to be worried about or did he just feel threatened and this is how he reacts to threatening situations? I've never had such an "aggressive" pup before and am learning as I go. Thank you all so much for your responses.
 

Cheetah

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#11
He may not have been properly socialized with other dogs (this is one reason many responsible breeders have begun keeping the litters together until they're 10-12 weeks old, instead of 8 weeks - some important socialization skills happen during that time). Any undersocialized dog can be aggressive around other dogs.

While he is young, I would get him around as many other well-balanced dogs as possible. Give him treats/praise any time he acts calm around another dog. I also suggest a puppy class, if only for the socialization that they get from it.

Other than that, I don't know whether the catahoula leopard dog breed is more prone to dog aggression or not... I'm sure somebody else can answer you about that one.
 

Doberluv

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#12
Puppies bite. Whether it was play or fear because of having someone's face right in his face, personally, at 10 weeks of age, I wouldn't worry about it so much. That is not something that is so unusual. Tell your kids not to put their face in his face and as he matures and learns the ropes, he'll probably learn more tolerance and get use to weird things humans do. LOL. He's just awfully young to be truly aggressive. Like it was said, it could have been a little fear and defensiveness or it could have been play. Puppies aren't that good at bite inhibition at that age. They've only just begun to learn it from their litter mates. You can continue to teach him that and as he matures, he'll be fine. There's a thread somewhere here if you do a search.

When he is finished with his vaccinations, I'd get him enrolled in a puppy class. Make sure you find a reputable trainer who uses gentle "positive" methods. There are a lot of bad trainers (as we've seen by some of the recent posts) where they advocate scruffing a dog's neck and yanking and jerking. Harsh and heavy handling can make a dog aggressive.

But it's a good thing for him to start learning his basics and have a "job." He'll mature nicely that way. It's good socialization and it's fun for both you and him. You'll learn some good tips.

Good luck with your pup!
 
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#13
An Update on Sarge:

He's doing better. We have definitely implemented the NILIF program in the household. He's stubborn, but is getting the hint that he can be stubborn all he wants. He won't get till he gives. We're working on teaching him the "down" command also. He sits well.

One thing I noticed, he only does the growling when he's on the couch sleeping. He doesn't growl when he's on the floor. So, for now at least, he will remain on the floor. Hubby was bummed, because he likes him to sit with him on the couch, but I think perhaps this is part of the problem..thoughts??

Also, each of the children are taking a hand with him. They also take him outside, make him sit before he goes out, sit before he comes back in etc. My daughter has also been empowered with NO. When he starts chewing on her sock, instead of crying as she did before, she now firmly says NO, and he instantly ceases. This seems to have made him accept her more as well. When we tested the face/face thing initially, he showed more dislike to her than any of the rest of us. Which is funny because she is the kindest to him of all of the kids, she doesn't hop around like the boys!!lol

At any rate, I have a better feeling about this dog than I had the first time I posted for sure!!

Thank again everyone!

 

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