Who else feeds RAW?

[RawFedDogs]

I've got to admit that this post comes the closest to giving reasons to feed veggies than any other post I've seen in my 7 years as a raw feeder. However, the reasons listed here fall far short in accuracy or reliablity.

This quote found here: BARF Diet Specifics - Bones, Meat, Offal, Vegetables, Fruits & Other Nutrition Food Products for Pet

Reading this page is no different than reading the promotional pages of any kibble company. Just as the kibble company web pages are full of information about how good corn is for your dog or how good powdered cellulose (sawdust) is or how good 100 other inappropriate ingredients are, this page tells you how good the ingredients are in the BARF brand pre-mix paddies. Many of the ingredients in these paddies are just as inappropriate for dogs as the ingredients in kibble. Billinghurst tried to reverse engineer kibble. I have always called most all of the premix paddies as nothing more than raw kibble.

From a HousePet Online magazine article: Add Broccoli to Your Dog’s Food to Help prevent Cancer!

This is nothing more than an article written for a web based magazine that is promoting a book written by the author of the article. Anyone can write an article for this magazine. I could even write one about the glorious benefits of a PMR diet. BTW: About a year ago I was approached about writing a book on raw feeding. Book writing is just not a project I want to get involved in.

Besides cancer fighting attributes, there are those things I listed before to treat symptoms, side effects, and take preventative measures.

The best cancer fighting action ou can take is to feed a proper diet of meat, bones, and organs.

Like the pumpkin for dogs who are ill and have loose stools.

Fasting for a meal and then feeding a couple of bone heavy meals will accomplish the same goal without feeding the dog inappropriate food items. It is also not as likely to mask symptoms of a deeper problem should that problem exist.

Like the sweet potatoes (which also have great cancer fighting affects and other vitamins of course) that help treat those stinky, irritable colons. (yuck farts) That even YOU said your dogs suffer from time to time.

Every living being suffers from that from time to time. A proper diet is the best prevenative and cure. Sweet potatoes are unnecessary. If this is a chronic problem, diet needs to be examined. If it's just temporary bouts, doing nothing is the best course. I think this is what causes sweet potatoes to work ... dog has stinky fart ... dog is fed a sweet potato ... dog's next fart stinks much less .... conclusion is that sweet potato cures stinky farts. It doesn't matter that the next fart wouldn't have stunk anyway even if nothing were done ... it HAD to be the sweet potato.

And we can't leave out your "snake oil" Apple Cider Vinegar, once again..........very good preventative in urinary tract health. It also helps balance PH levels in dogs and keeps those brown spots off your lawn, LOL! WOOT!

A good diet eliminates the need for ACV. Urinary tract health is dependent on a proper diet. PH levels are dependent on a good diet. I really don't want to artificially fool with the PH balance in the kidneys. It is what it is for a reason and screwing with it can cause problems. Brown grass or no brown grass.

EDIT TO ADD:

So what it boils down to for me personally: My dogs are in GREAT shape.

Healthy, shiny, itch free coats. We don't even need to use flee/tick preventatives from the vet and yet we STILL don't have a single flee or tick.....we do it naturally You never see my dogs sitting around licking or scratching at themselves. That tells me their skin and coat feel pretty good to them, LOL

They maintain a good weight. Plenty of muscle, not just "empty weight" Even Phoebe who is a senior and not quite as active as she once was still maintains that girlish figure, LOL

This could describe my dogs also except I do use a flea prevenative when I see a flea. This may happen once a year and some years it doesn't happen. I live in a rural area next to a swamp and have lots of squirrels, deer and other creatures that carry fleas. The dogs are in the woods and along the swamp and sometimes in the swamp every day. I think seeing a flea once a year is not a big deal.

Health. We normally visit the vet for shots and a check up once a year.........they are both quite healthy and have no need for medical intervention.

With those FACTS about my dogs all added together, to me it = what they eat and how they live definitely works in this house

We visit the vet once a year for heartworm check. I don't give shots nor have a checkup. I did have a baseline blood panel run on Abby (9 1/2 yo Great Dane) a couple of years ago and everything was well within normal range.

I see practically no health differences in my dogs and yours. Ok, here is the deal ... I used to type this a lot in posts but haven't in several years.

Some people feed their dogs meat, bones, organs, supplements, fruits/veggies and their dogs are healthy.

Some people feed their dogs meat, bones, organs, and fruits/veggies and their dogs are healthy.

Some people feed their dogs meat, bones, organs and supplements and their dogs are healthy.

Some people feed their dogs meat, bones, and organs and nothing else and their dogs are no less healthy.

Why, then would one want to complicate the diet by feeding supplements and fruits and veggies if their dogs are no healthier without them?

 

[ACooper]

First let me say that I used the BARF page and explanations of certain veggies as a resource like you used Wikki a while back, LOL. I don't buy BARF, haven't ever, and most likely never will. They just had certain things listed out that I believe and could supply a link to Same with the magazine article.

Why, then would one want to complicate the diet by feeding supplements and fruits and veggies if their dogs are no healthier without them?

You have yet to show me my dogs are "no healthier" without them. Call it daily care for future prevention if you like. You might not see the benefits of veggies (fruits too if the dog likes them, but they will get the same benefits from veggies so fruits aren't a NECESSITY) today, but it can be fighting internal things for the future. Who knows? Like I mentioned before (you might not be that far yet) no harm + POTENTIAL benefit is win/win IMO.

 

[eddieq]

Some people feed their dogs meat, bones, organs, supplements, fruits/veggies and their dogs are healthy.

Some people feed their dogs meat, bones, organs, and fruits/veggies and their dogs are healthy.

Some people feed their dogs meat, bones, organs and supplements and their dogs are healthy.

Some people feed their dogs meat, bones, and organs and nothing else and their dogs are no less healthy.

Why, then would one want to complicate the diet by feeding supplements and fruits and veggies if their dogs are no healthier without them?

Honestly, then, why does it matter to you if people want to add fruits and/or veggies to the dog's diet, since they are no more or less healthy for it? I say if people want to add fruits and veggies to their raw diet, let them and don't try to make them feel like they are doing something wrong.

 

[Beanie]

You look at a wild wolf's digestive system and compare it to a modern day dog's digestive system and note the differences. There are none.

This is not true. The modern dog's digestive system is more closely like the coyote's digestive system, which HAS evolved and adapted to tolerate grains, fruits, berries, and vegetables due to their opportunistic lifestyle in agricultural societies. Coyotes eat whatever they can find, which doesn't always include hunted prey or carrion, and their bodies have adapted. Dogs, on the other hand, were fed whatever their human companians were eating, so their bodies have also adapted.
Structurally they are still incredibly similar, but there are psyiological differences.


As to why someone would complicate things by feeding fruits and vegetables that you deem as not necessary - why do humans season food? It makes it more enjoyable to us. You compared fruits and vegetables to eating cake and candy. I love candy and so does my dog. He loves pineapple so I gladly give him pineapple. It's not complicated at all.

 

[corgipower]

Yes, thats easy. You look at a wild wolf's digestive system and compare it to a modern day dog's digestive system and note the differences. There are none. You don't need a scientific study to do this.

Actually, it does require a scientific study. I am unable to look at a dog's or a wolf's digestive system. Someone who is able to open up the animal and compare the organ's can, but that would be science.

Please share source of the study that compared dog and wolf digestive systems and found they were identical.

The modern dog's digestive system is more closely like the coyote's digestive system

I also ask that you share the study that determined this.

 

[Zoom]

Hahahaha Dan. I also NEED coffee but I don't give that to them........I would if I thought it had benefit for them though! *imagines Orson on caffeine*

I've see what happens. It's not pretty. :rofl1:

 

[RawFedDogs]

This is not true. The modern dog's digestive system is more closely like the coyote's digestive system, which HAS evolved and adapted to tolerate grains, fruits, berries, and vegetables due to their opportunistic lifestyle in agricultural societies.

Where do you get this information?

Coyotes eat whatever they can find, which doesn't always include hunted prey or carrion, and their bodies have adapted.

Were do you get his information?

Dogs, on the other hand, were fed whatever their human companians were eating, so their bodies have also adapted.

That is speculation also. No one can say for certain what they ate over a long period of time. In what way did the body adapt? Did the intestines lengthen? Did the intestines develop wrinkles to slow down the progress of food through them? Did the pancreas suddenly start secreting enzymes to digest plant material? How did it do that?

Structurally they are still incredibly similar, but there are psyiological differences.

What are these differences?

As to why someone would complicate things by feeding fruits and vegetables that you deem as not necessary - why do humans season food? It makes it more enjoyable to us. You compared fruits and vegetables to eating cake and candy. I love candy and so does my dog. He loves pineapple so I gladly give him pineapple. It's not complicated at all.

I don't have a problem with people giving their dogs fruits/veggies as an occasional treat. I don't really have a problem if they feed them a pureed or cooked veggie mix but I just don't understand why they want to go to all that trouble when there are no benefits. I would feed my dogs rocks if I thought there was a health benefit.

 

[RawFedDogs]

Please share source of the study that compared dog and wolf digestive systems and found they were identical.

Its something that research is not needed. A college student or biologist maybe even a high school student can open up an wolf and open up an dog and compare them. No need to open up 1,000 dogs and 1,000 wolves and compare them all. It just like if you hold a rock in your hand and drop it. It falls to the ground. Gravity. You don't have to drop 1,000 rocks to prove there is gravity. Every piece of knowledge doesn't come from years of painstaking research. Gravity was discovered by sitting under an apple tree and doing nothing. :rofl1:

 

[ACooper]

You have yet to show me my dogs are "no healthier" without them. Call it daily care for future prevention if you like. You might not see the benefits of veggies (fruits too if the dog likes them, but they will get the same benefits from veggies so fruits aren't a NECESSITY) today, but it can be fighting internal things for the future. Who knows? Like I mentioned before (you might not be that far yet) no harm + POTENTIAL benefit is win/win IMO.

Repeating this again in case you missed it

You said THIS in response to Beanie:

Where do you get this information?

Were do you get his information?

That is speculation also. No one can say for certain what they ate over a long period of time. In what way did the body adapt? Did the intestines lengthen? Did the intestines develop wrinkles to slow down the progress of food through them? Did the pancreas suddenly start secreting enzymes to digest plant material? How did it do that?

What are these differences?

I don't have a problem with people giving their dogs fruits/veggies as an occasional treat. I don't really have a problem if they feed them a pureed or cooked veggie mix but I just don't understand why they want to go to all that trouble when there are no benefits. I would feed my dogs rocks if I thought there was a health benefit.

And then THIS in response to Corgi wanting research (or even studies to back up claims)

Its something that research is not needed. A college student or biologist maybe even a high school student can open up an wolf and open up an dog and compare them. No need to open up 1,000 dogs and 1,000 wolves and compare them all. It just like if you hold a rock in your hand and drop it. It falls to the ground. Gravity. You don't have to drop 1,000 rocks to prove there is gravity. Every piece of knowledge doesn't come from years of painstaking research. :smile: Gravity was discovered by sitting under an apple tree and doing nothing. :rofl1:

You can't have it both ways, LOL.......there is no reason for us to assume you are right and beanie is wrong based solely on your word (or hers) LOLOL

 

[corgipower]

Its something that research is not needed. A college student or biologist maybe even a high school student can open up an wolf and open up an dog and compare them. No need to open up 1,000 dogs and 1,000 wolves and compare them all. It just like if you hold a rock in your hand and drop it. It falls to the ground. Gravity. You don't have to drop 1,000 rocks to prove there is gravity. Every piece of knowledge doesn't come from years of painstaking research. Gravity was discovered by sitting under an apple tree and doing nothing. :rofl1:

I am not a college student or a biologist or even a high school student. I cannot and will not open up a wolf and a dog for comparison.

If it has been done and documented, share your source so that we can all see the findings.

Nowhere did I say it took years of painstaking research. I did say it took science. Cutting open an animal is done by doctors, biologists and psychotics. I am none of the above. It's really not comparable to gravity, and I find your "rofl" to be quite arrogant.

 

[Criosphynx]

my dogs will be happier if I fed them PMD....

WOW. I didn't know puking and diarhea was the key to happiness.

I love how none of you Zealots have addressed the Issues both myself and Cali described..dogs getting sick from eating RMB from one protien source....

so if som'one is not willing to clean up puke and diarhea while their dog adjusts to raw they are som'one inferior and lazy and their dogs aren't happy?

You have done raw circles a great disservice my friend.

 

[RawFedDogs]

You can't have it both ways, LOL.......there is no reason for us to assume you are right and beanie is wrong based solely on your word (or hers) LOLOL

Yes, that would be true if that is what actually happened. You really need to go back an re-read my post I asked beanie where a couple of pieces of information came from about coyottes. Since I am not an expert on coyottes, I have no idea where to look for this information. At no time did I tell her she was wrong.

I told her that no one knows what dogs ate in the distant past. There is no way of knowing that. What she says MAY be right but again, no one knows. I have other scenarios as to what they COULD have eaten that are just as believable and they don't include plant material. Again, I didn't tell her she was wrong.

Then she stated there were physiological differences between wolves and dogs and I asked her what those were. I didn't say she was wrong (but I think she is)

So there!!

 

[bubbatd]

Note to self : Add feeding raw to politics and religion for subjects not to debate .

 

[ACooper]

Oh I didn't say you accused her of being wrong.........you just wanted PROOF/LINKS as to her sources, pretty much the same thing you told Corgi wasn't necessary to explain/back up your claims on wolves/dogs comparison, LOL

SO THERE hahahahaha

AND...........I have a bad feeling if/when she DOES supply those links you will just say they are backed by commercial dog food companies :rofl1:

 

[Criosphynx]

Coop you got to stop feeding the troll so much cake...its bad for him

 

[ACooper]

Coop you got to stop feeding the troll so much cake...its bad for him

Obviously you and Corgi do NOT agree on cake! :rofl1:

 

[Criosphynx]

Obviously you and Corgi do NOT agree on cake! :rofl1:

well the cake in itself if ok...its when you eat way to much you start puking garbage all over your keyboard...and then you type funny things...mostly about meat being god and shunning non believers. :rofl1:

RFD I'd looove to see photos of your dogs. That should be the ultimate proof of your "meat is god" agenda...if I remember correctly from last time I saw them they were overwieght and looked like an average dog (coat wise) I think you should prove me wrong.

 

[corgipower]

 

[Criosphynx]

Cp there no way that metal doily has ANY nutrition....

 

[corgipower]

Cp there no way that metal doily has ANY nutrition....

Scientific studies have shown that humans are incapable of digesting metal doilies.

Trolls however have completely different intestines, pancreas, teeth, etc. and while they will suffer all sorts of ill effects from eating cake, metal doilies make up a large portion of their diet in the wild.