When is it time to just let go?

[SpikedMarkus]

As i'm sure most of you know Cesar Millans pit-bull 'Daddy' passed away recently and when reading through the memorial I noticed that he had been given chemotherapy.
I really have a problem with this; a 16 year old dog being put through something as traumatic as chemo, why?
I'm not just having a go at Cesar but at any pet owner who will put their beloved one through risky and unnecessary treatment when it they know it won't cure their ailment or ease their suffering. At the end of the day it isn't always the owners fault as some vets will use an owners love for their pet to sell the most expensive drugs and treatments available while giving false hope to make a quick buck. Just because it CAN be done doesn't mean it SHOULD be done.
I have no problem with painkillers for arthritis, medication for mange or even surgery to remove a benign tumour but once owners begin to forcibly attempt to extend a dogs life at the risk of continuing their suffering then they are no longer putting the animals well-being first.

What lengths would you go to to keep your dog alive, what are your personal limitations for treatment and when is it time to just let go and say goodbye?

 

[colliewog]

I would do chemo on a younger or middle-aged dog if the prognosis was good to excellent, but not on a 16 yr old, or a dog of any age if the prognosis was poor or guarded. If you extend their life, how much time could they possibly have?? To give the dog 6 more months on the planet because I can't bear to be without them is not fair IMO ...

 

[Criosphynx]

Iam fully prepared to euthanize instead of chemo on an old dog.


I had a dog that needed back surgery. We decided it was unfair to him at his age to put him through anymore procedures. We put him down.


Iam in the same boat. The thought of prolonging my dogs life, but having them be in pain sickens me. In fact I constantly worry about them being in pain and me not knowing it.

 

[SpikedMarkus]

I just thought of putting this up as my granda was in a similar situation when he was diagnosed with cancer in 2008. He was given 2-4 months and the oncologist offered chemo but said that he might not live as long with treatment and it definitely wouldn't cure him, it might even cause more pain than having none. Nearly 2 years on with no treatment and he's still here.
It's a pity pets can't say, no more, it's just my time.

In fact I constantly worry about them being in pain and me not knowing it.

I'm exactly the same with Bertie as he has arthritis and it's almost impossible to tell when he's in pain.

 

[TheGoldenRetriever]

I really have a problem with this; a 16 year old dog being put through something as traumatic as chemo, why?

I don't have a problem with it at all, because:

a.) We do not have Daddy-the-dog's vet records so we don't know that he "suffered" trauma due to the chemo. There are many cases (human and animal) when chemotherapy is a part of pallitive care ... that's care to ease painful/distressing symptoms caused by cancer as opposed to curative care. In those cases, the chemo given actually makes the patient feel better for the time they have left.

b.) We don't know how many rounds of chemo he was given ... he may have had earlier chemo from which he went into remission and was able to live cancer-free and pain-free for some time before the cancer possibly recurred, after which he then passed away.

c.) From the dogs I have seen that had chemo treatment for cancer, the dogs do much better with far fewer side effects than humans on chemo for cancer.

I just don't think it's fair to blame his owners and say that the chemo was done for selfish reasons, or that the treatment was "traumatic" when we simply don't have all the facts of that particular case.

 

[bubbatd]

My daughter chose not to put her old Lab Yogi through chemo .
it just was time /

h


h

 

[~Jessie~]

I don't have a problem with it at all, because:

a.) We do not have Daddy-the-dog's vet records so we don't know that he "suffered" trauma due to the chemo. There are many cases (human and animal) when chemotherapy is a part of pallitive care ... that's care to ease painful/distressing symptoms caused by cancer as opposed to curative care. In those cases, the chemo given actually makes the patient feel better for the time they have left.

b.) We don't know how many rounds of chemo he was given ... he may have had earlier chemo from which he went into remission and was able to live cancer-free and pain-free for some time before the cancer possibly recurred, after which he then passed away.

c.) From the dogs I have seen that had chemo treatment for cancer, the dogs do much better with far fewer side effects than humans on chemo for cancer.

I just don't think it's fair to blame his owners and say that the chemo was done for selfish reasons, or that the treatment was "traumatic" when we simply don't have all the facts of that particular case.

I agree. There was an older chi on my chi forum who went through chemo as a mid-teen... and lived to be almost 20... at least 4+ years of being in remission before dying.

 

[JessLough]

It's a pity pets can't say, no more, it's just my time.

Oh but they can. You look into your dogs eyes and you will know that they are just tired of fighting and are ready to go. We (AllieMackie and I) had to go through it at the beginning of February with our ferret, Palom. He was sick, and the morning that we had him put to sleep, we just looked into his eyes and we knew that he was done fighting and was ready to go.

I don't have a problem with it at all, because:

a.) We do not have Daddy-the-dog's vet records so we don't know that he "suffered" trauma due to the chemo. There are many cases (human and animal) when chemotherapy is a part of pallitive care ... that's care to ease painful/distressing symptoms caused by cancer as opposed to curative care. In those cases, the chemo given actually makes the patient feel better for the time they have left.

b.) We don't know how many rounds of chemo he was given ... he may have had earlier chemo from which he went into remission and was able to live cancer-free and pain-free for some time before the cancer possibly recurred, after which he then passed away.

c.) From the dogs I have seen that had chemo treatment for cancer, the dogs do much better with far fewer side effects than humans on chemo for cancer.

I just don't think it's fair to blame his owners and say that the chemo was done for selfish reasons, or that the treatment was "traumatic" when we simply don't have all the facts of that particular case.

^This. :hail::hail::hail:

Honestly, it is a lot easier to sit back and say something about somebody else without being in that situation, IMHO. Throw into the mix that be somebody whom you dislike, and it just makes a bad mix. And before somebody says it, even if you had a dog in a similar situation, it is NOT the same.

That said, without knowing Daddy's past, I can say that if it was my girl, I would not do the chemo if it was just going to cause her more pain (again, I do not know their situation, it could have been a good chance for an excellent outcome). Heck, I have recently had to make the decision that our 5 1/2 year-old ferret will NOT be getting a surgery that he could benefit from, and instead will just be on meds for the rest of his life.

Also, with the comment of something along the lines "why bother if it only gives 6 more months of life, it is not worth it". If I was going to die, and had a chance at 6 more months of life, yes I would LOVE to have that 6 more months. If there was something I could do that would let Rosey have even just 1 more month with us, I sure would give her every chance at that extra month, as long as the quality of life is still there.

Let the reaming begin
opcorn:

 

[bubbatd]

Months are fine if they are happy and enjoying life . All cancers are different . My Chip would have had maybe 2 weeks and was already in pain . And yes , read their eyes .

 

[smkie]

I agree. There was an older chi on my chi forum who went through chemo as a mid-teen... and lived to be almost 20... at least 4+ years of being in remission before dying.

YOu said it better than I can. From a person that had to beg twice to have an old dog to get surgery when they said she was to old. Those last 3 years of Mary's life were some of her best.

 

[bubbatd]

My Rufus was 13 when he had prostate cancer . He was neutered and lived to be over 17 .

 

[puppydog]

How I read the article was that Daddy had BEEN through chemo and was in remission. Maybe I am wrong.

I don't know how to answer the OP's question. I hope that I will be able to do the right thing when the time comes.

 

[chicklette]

If the animal is in constant pain with no cure I would put them down. Any type of unmanageable pain. This is not a dog but I had a chinchilla I raised from birth, her parents died when she was a week old so I had to feed her day and night. She had malocclusion, she was seven years old and I put her to sleep not to long ago. Her teeth were loose, there were infections, plus malocclusion. My vet said he could try to do the surgery BUT her teeth would constantly be coming back and we would have to put her under anesthetic regularly. This is really hard on an animal. I just decided to let her go. I don’t know how much pain she was in but it was hard for her to even eat. I miss her with all my heart, it’s still hard talking about it but she is in no more pain. So I don’t believe pets need to suffer like that if nothing can be done.

 

[Tazwell]

I thought Daddy had cancer earlier in life and survived it, therefore had chemotherapy earlier in life... Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[PoodleMommy]

I don't have a problem with it at all, because:

a.) We do not have Daddy-the-dog's vet records so we don't know that he "suffered" trauma due to the chemo. There are many cases (human and animal) when chemotherapy is a part of pallitive care ... that's care to ease painful/distressing symptoms caused by cancer as opposed to curative care. In those cases, the chemo given actually makes the patient feel better for the time they have left.

b.) We don't know how many rounds of chemo he was given ... he may have had earlier chemo from which he went into remission and was able to live cancer-free and pain-free for some time before the cancer possibly recurred, after which he then passed away.

I just don't think it's fair to blame his owners and say that the chemo was done for selfish reasons, or that the treatment was "traumatic" when we simply don't have all the facts of that particular case.

agreed!

(I omitted "C" because I have never seen a dog go through chemo not because I didnt agree)

I dont have any hard and fast rules with when it is time to let go... I feel like "you" (the person who owns the pet only) just knows.

We have a cat that had cancer, she had the cancerous growth removed at age 14, everyone told us we should put her to sleep that it was mean to put her through surgery at that age... she just turned 18 and at her checkup a few months ago she passed with flying colors... she is on no medications and has no problems common in older cats (kidney, thyroid, high blood pressure, etc.) She is very very healthy, just hard of hearing now.

On the other hand we put a dog to sleep at age 11 because the cancer was far too progressed and little we could do for her, she was in pain, and had no chance of a good life.

I think knowing a pets entire history is very important in making these decisions and therefore only the people who actually own them and live with them can make a judgment on whether or not they should be PTS and how much is too much to put them through.

 

[SpikedMarkus]

If the animal is in constant pain with no cure I would put them down. Any type of unmanageable pain. So I don’t believe pets need to suffer like that if nothing can be done.

Thank you, this is basically like my original post only shortened down. Maybe posters will better understand my viewpoint now. Also I don't know about 'Daddy's' medical history either but if any animal was terminally ill I wouldn't hesitate to have them put to sleep when it started to affect their well-being. Most people become desperate to stay alive for as long as possible when they're faced with terminal illness, this is a human characteristic. Dragging it out for a pet isn't a positive thing if quantity of life is put before quality of life.

 

[bubbatd]

I may have held on to a few of mine through my own selfishness . Goldens are so brave and stoic .

 

[Blue_Dog]

Oh but they can. You look into your dogs eyes and you will know that they are just tired of fighting and are ready to go.

I agree. I didn't put Blue to sleep until he let me know. I asked him everyday and one day he just let me know. It was horrible but it's what he wanted.

 

[Xandra]

Awww I didn't know that. That's so sad

I just read some articles and everything alluded to him surviving cancer and dying of something else. I'm thinking the chemo did indeed extended his happy life and the dog died of something else.

Somehow I don't figure that man for the type that would desperately hang on to a terminal and in pain dog. But I agree that if Roman was in his teens and developed cancer and was in pain, that would be the end.

 

[StillandSilent]

We decided not to pursue chemo for Lilly, who was 13 at the time of her death. She had been fighting cancer for well over 8 years at that point, and while chemo might have bought her some time, it would not have cured her.
Chemo was also suggested for Neon and his brain tumor. Thousands of dollars, bad side effects and it would have bought him six months if we were lucky. No thank you, it's too much for him.
As far as hanging on too long...well, I had one in boarding this week where I looked at him and thought, if he were Argon, I would have had him PTS a long time ago. It was a large breed dog, 14 years old. He couldn't get up on his own, so an employee had to help him. He was incontinant, so he would pee or poop at night, and then lay in it until the next morning when one of us could get in. His hips are horrible and he is in constant pain. I actually cried on two different mornings trying to help the old guy. The owner refuses to make the decision for him, and I personally think he's hoping the dog dies while we have it, so he doesn't have to.