what do you think?
- Thread starter Elia&Blazer
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Shouldn't have to doesn't really mean much. We shouldn't have to lock our doors at night. We shouldn't have to pay taxes to keep stupid people in jail... But it's just a fact. And I totally disagree that a good breeder breeds for themselves. A good breeder breeds for their breed. If it isn't necessary to breed then maybe they can find other ways to help their breed. There shouldn't be any unwanted puppies because a good breeder will have found homes long before they ever let their bitch get pregnant.
R
I dont think you read my posts right.
Breeders that have been breeding for quit some time, and are very experienced, can keep breeding, but if you are thinking about breeding a popular breed, then I dont think you should. Too many of them are in pounds and unwanted. Too many breeders.
I agree with saje 100%
Breeders that have been breeding for quit some time, and are very experienced, can keep breeding, but if you are thinking about breeding a popular breed, then I dont think you should. Too many of them are in pounds and unwanted. Too many breeders.
I agree with saje 100%
R
That is not what you said.
THIS is what you said:
I repeat.
If all the breeders stop breeding, then in 4 to 6 years, you have NO good stock left and nothing to continue from.
Breeding dogs is not a bad thing correctly done, regardless of what the high risk know nothing back yarders and commercial breeders are doing.
There is a NEED and a NECESSITY for breeders who have the best interests and the future of their breed at heart to continue breeding good dogs.
If people want to help with the masses of irresponsibly bred dogs who end up in shelters, then they need to start with education of the people pumping out these dogs.
THIS is what you said:
I repeat.
If all the breeders stop breeding, then in 4 to 6 years, you have NO good stock left and nothing to continue from.
Breeding dogs is not a bad thing correctly done, regardless of what the high risk know nothing back yarders and commercial breeders are doing.
There is a NEED and a NECESSITY for breeders who have the best interests and the future of their breed at heart to continue breeding good dogs.
If people want to help with the masses of irresponsibly bred dogs who end up in shelters, then they need to start with education of the people pumping out these dogs.
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Never leave dog breeding to the rogues. If responsible breeders, and wannabe responsible breeders do not breed, or even severely limit their breeding programs, where does John Q Public get their puppy? Why, the BYBers and puppymills that take advantage of the "shortage" of purebred pups and breed to the demand.
Meanwhile, the genetic integrity, the long term health, type, soundness etc of these breeds go to h***
Educate the buyers. That's the only responsible answer to the problem of unwanted dogs.
Meanwhile, the genetic integrity, the long term health, type, soundness etc of these breeds go to h***
Educate the buyers. That's the only responsible answer to the problem of unwanted dogs.
There is a need in every breed for good breeders. Their dogs will continue producing QUALITY while the BYBs are pumping out poorly bred dogs. Like Red has already said, if responsible breeders stop breeding, all of the good stock will be gone. How is that in the breed's best interest?
The handful of quality puppies produced by responsible breeders vs. the thousands produced by BYB/mills... Which is harming the breed more? Why would anybody want to tell the truly responsible breeders that they need to stop breeding, while BYBs run rampant and continue to breed crap.
The finger is being pointed in the wrong direction. Responsible breeders are needed in just about all breeds, especially the popular ones. Buyer education works. Pushing away responsible breeders is just silly.
The handful of quality puppies produced by responsible breeders vs. the thousands produced by BYB/mills... Which is harming the breed more? Why would anybody want to tell the truly responsible breeders that they need to stop breeding, while BYBs run rampant and continue to breed crap.
The finger is being pointed in the wrong direction. Responsible breeders are needed in just about all breeds, especially the popular ones. Buyer education works. Pushing away responsible breeders is just silly.
I couldn't agree more with Motherofmany and RD- well put!
I'm continually surprised by the number of times I see responsible breeders being criticized for the pet overpopulation problem...when as RD pointed out, they aren't the ones to blame.
While the idea of "everyone putting a stop to breeding for x number of years until all the homeless pets are adopted," is a sweet one, it's also incredibly unrealistic, and serves no one, least of all the homeless pets. It makes far more sense to focus on *realistic* goals- educating the public about where and how to find their canine companions. Those people breeding for all the wrong reasons (money) will be GONE when the *demand* is gone. And where does this demand come from? The uneducated public!
We need to encourage, nurture and support those people that decide to take up responsible and ethical breeding. It's not cheap, it's never easy, it's a labor of love, and there are *far* too few great breeders out there.
I'm continually surprised by the number of times I see responsible breeders being criticized for the pet overpopulation problem...when as RD pointed out, they aren't the ones to blame.
While the idea of "everyone putting a stop to breeding for x number of years until all the homeless pets are adopted," is a sweet one, it's also incredibly unrealistic, and serves no one, least of all the homeless pets. It makes far more sense to focus on *realistic* goals- educating the public about where and how to find their canine companions. Those people breeding for all the wrong reasons (money) will be GONE when the *demand* is gone. And where does this demand come from? The uneducated public!
We need to encourage, nurture and support those people that decide to take up responsible and ethical breeding. It's not cheap, it's never easy, it's a labor of love, and there are *far* too few great breeders out there.
Most breeders do breed for themselves.
At least the ones I know. They breed a litter to get a top show/working prospect for themselves. They then sell the other pups to others.
A responsible breeder knows were his/her puppies are at all times. If you cant take care of it anymore they take it back so they can make sure it doesnt end up in a shelter.
Responsible breeders do NOT contribute to the over population. They spay/neuter non breeding dogs and have contracts. Its the BYB's and the ignorant people out there that add to it
At least the ones I know. They breed a litter to get a top show/working prospect for themselves. They then sell the other pups to others.
A responsible breeder knows were his/her puppies are at all times. If you cant take care of it anymore they take it back so they can make sure it doesnt end up in a shelter.
Responsible breeders do NOT contribute to the over population. They spay/neuter non breeding dogs and have contracts. Its the BYB's and the ignorant people out there that add to it
Hey I'm not saying that nobody should breed. I'm all for responsible breeding but I definitely think that the amount of a breed in the shelters should be looked into. And all breeders, in a way, contribute to the population in shelters because everytime someone adopts a dog from ANY breeder a dog is not being adopted from the shelter.
In an ideal world there would be no bybers and no dogs in the shelter but this is not an ideal world and while we do need responsible breeders to keep quality in the breeds that we love we still need to consider all the animals in shelters.
In an ideal world there would be no bybers and no dogs in the shelter but this is not an ideal world and while we do need responsible breeders to keep quality in the breeds that we love we still need to consider all the animals in shelters.
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And all breeders, in a way, contribute to the population in shelters because everytime someone adopts a dog from ANY breeder a dog is not being adopted from the shelter--
Responsible breeders do not contribute in any way to the population in shelters. The dogs in shelters are there due to irresponsible owners, puppymills and BYBers.
Again, buyer education is the only solution to the problem of unwanted dogs.
BTW, almost 100% of responsible breeders support breed rescue, financially supporting and providing homes for thousands of dogs produced by other people, directing pet owners to rescue etc. Their dedication to their breed is proved time and again by that fact alone.
Responsible breeders and parents... two groups of people that take it on the chin whenever someone with an axe to grind decides to take others to task versus actually adressing the real sources of serious problems.
Responsible breeders do not contribute in any way to the population in shelters. The dogs in shelters are there due to irresponsible owners, puppymills and BYBers.
Again, buyer education is the only solution to the problem of unwanted dogs.
BTW, almost 100% of responsible breeders support breed rescue, financially supporting and providing homes for thousands of dogs produced by other people, directing pet owners to rescue etc. Their dedication to their breed is proved time and again by that fact alone.
Responsible breeders and parents... two groups of people that take it on the chin whenever someone with an axe to grind decides to take others to task versus actually adressing the real sources of serious problems.
Like I said before any time a dog is adopted from any sort of breeder they aren't adopting from the shelter. I'm all for good breeders I just think you need to consider the animals in shelters before you become a breeder.
I have no interest in breeding because it costs too much money, too much time and the breeds that I adore already have good, responsible breeders. I don't think they need any more.
I have no interest in breeding because it costs too much money, too much time and the breeds that I adore already have good, responsible breeders. I don't think they need any more.
The idea that "everytime someone obtains a dog from a breeder, a shelter dog is not adopted," simply isn't true.
In my case, had I not gotten a dog from a responsible breeder, I wouldn't have gotten a dog at all.
Why?
For one- I wanted a show dog. Any dog leaving a shelter is spayed or neutered (as they should be), and let's face it- I have yet to see a show quality Shiba Inu in the 6 years that I have been volunteering at the Humane Society, find it's way to a shelter. (In all that time I've seen *one* Shiba mix.
Secondly, I had *very* specific qualifications for an animal to live in my house. Specific enough that after 2 years of research I found two relatively rare breeds that fit the bill. My dog needed to be extraordinarily quiet, relatively small, easy to groom, and capable of getting along with both children and skittish cats. I needed a dog that wasn't going to be velcroed to my hip for every minute that I was home- this was a dog that needed to be independent, and comfortable with being at home alone for longer periods of time than say a Golden or a GSD. Finally- despite it's small size, I wanted this dog to be athletic as all get-out. I'm a long-distance runner, and I wanted a dog that would *at least* be able to do an easy 5 mile run with me.
To be fair to both myself, and more importantly *the dog,* i KNEW that I needed to go to a breeder. This dog had to be as predictable as they come- and while every dog is an individual, I wanted to be able to look at (and interact with) the parents, trace the bloodlines, and meet the person who would be raising my future family member for 8 weeks of it's life.
I simply refused to be the type of person who would return in animal because "it just didn't fit." So I did the smart thing- and bought a dog from the avenue that I knew would give me the highest rate of success.
In the meantime- I volunteer at the Humane Society as much as I can- I hope that one day I *will* be in a position to rescue or adopt a future buddy, but until then- I do what's most fair to both me and the animals.
In my case, had I not gotten a dog from a responsible breeder, I wouldn't have gotten a dog at all.
Why?
For one- I wanted a show dog. Any dog leaving a shelter is spayed or neutered (as they should be), and let's face it- I have yet to see a show quality Shiba Inu in the 6 years that I have been volunteering at the Humane Society, find it's way to a shelter. (In all that time I've seen *one* Shiba mix.
Secondly, I had *very* specific qualifications for an animal to live in my house. Specific enough that after 2 years of research I found two relatively rare breeds that fit the bill. My dog needed to be extraordinarily quiet, relatively small, easy to groom, and capable of getting along with both children and skittish cats. I needed a dog that wasn't going to be velcroed to my hip for every minute that I was home- this was a dog that needed to be independent, and comfortable with being at home alone for longer periods of time than say a Golden or a GSD. Finally- despite it's small size, I wanted this dog to be athletic as all get-out. I'm a long-distance runner, and I wanted a dog that would *at least* be able to do an easy 5 mile run with me.
To be fair to both myself, and more importantly *the dog,* i KNEW that I needed to go to a breeder. This dog had to be as predictable as they come- and while every dog is an individual, I wanted to be able to look at (and interact with) the parents, trace the bloodlines, and meet the person who would be raising my future family member for 8 weeks of it's life.
I simply refused to be the type of person who would return in animal because "it just didn't fit." So I did the smart thing- and bought a dog from the avenue that I knew would give me the highest rate of success.
In the meantime- I volunteer at the Humane Society as much as I can- I hope that one day I *will* be in a position to rescue or adopt a future buddy, but until then- I do what's most fair to both me and the animals.
Saje, how about my breed then? Shelters are overrun with poorly bred Border Collies and BC mixes. Yet, responsible Border Collie breeders are few and far between. The breed seriously needs help, even though it is one of the more common and popular breeds. Should the responsible breeders stop breeding simply because too many irresponsible people are pumping out poor quality dogs?
I agree that the issue of many homeless pets is a serious one, but saying that breeders should not produce quality dogs because there are a ton of poor quality ones out there is not sensible. The BYBs are not going to stop breeding, so these breeds need all the knowledgeable, responsible, ethical breeders they can get to maintain the quality and integrity of the breed.
I would never dream of turning someone away from this breed because it is too common. Most often, it's the hugely popular breeds that need the most help, as they are the ones targeted the most by unscrupulous breeders.
JMO as always.
Edit: Tempura (hi! by the way, lol. Didn't recognize you until I saw Kimi in your avatar) listed the reasons that many (they're not always the minority..) people cannot always rescue. I will absolutely do all I can as a breeder to place homeless Border Collies in good homes, but for quite some time I don't believe I will be able to permanently keep rescue dogs. I do believe it is important for breeders to help shelter dogs, but not everybody can do so by adopting them. Simply donating money is a wonderful thing to do, and it can greatly improve the lives of the dogs while they are in shelters.
I agree that the issue of many homeless pets is a serious one, but saying that breeders should not produce quality dogs because there are a ton of poor quality ones out there is not sensible. The BYBs are not going to stop breeding, so these breeds need all the knowledgeable, responsible, ethical breeders they can get to maintain the quality and integrity of the breed.
I would never dream of turning someone away from this breed because it is too common. Most often, it's the hugely popular breeds that need the most help, as they are the ones targeted the most by unscrupulous breeders.
JMO as always.
Edit: Tempura (hi! by the way, lol. Didn't recognize you until I saw Kimi in your avatar) listed the reasons that many (they're not always the minority..) people cannot always rescue. I will absolutely do all I can as a breeder to place homeless Border Collies in good homes, but for quite some time I don't believe I will be able to permanently keep rescue dogs. I do believe it is important for breeders to help shelter dogs, but not everybody can do so by adopting them. Simply donating money is a wonderful thing to do, and it can greatly improve the lives of the dogs while they are in shelters.
Entirely up to you I think new breeders should take into consideration how many of their breed there are out there and how many responsible breeders. It's not like I would knock responsible breeders I think there is a lot to think about not just whether or not your next dog is show quality. And I totally don't agree that responsible breeders breed for themselves. It should be done to improve their breed not to get their next show dog and sell the rest.
It's going to be very hard for me when I lose Chip. I really shouldn't ( or couldn't ) take on a puppy. It will have to be a dog that can be my pal as well as me be his. Rescue ?? Possibly, but what were the issues ?? HS ? Again the same question. The ideal for me would be a retired Golden from the show ring. I'll leave it to my Goldens above to lead me the right way. I do believe in fate. No, it doesn't have to be a Golden . Just a great big lug to see me through !