The preservation of the pure bred dog..

[bubbatd]

That's the only way it should be done Red.

 

[Dekka]

Yes I have.. thats why I do not see a greyhound or other sighthounds in bite work. Even in agility- there are some larger sighthounds that do it, but its rather rare.. That is- unless we could put a lure on the course.. lol. Then we would have a speeding demon although no handler would be needed.. However- even then like with a Borzoi they are so aware of their bodies, the hardest to teach is actually the weaves. ( they naturally avoid something rubbing against them. The same trait that helps with a large dog around crystal in a palace, is the same behavior that makes this difficult for them).
I did always think herding might be something. That is until I saw femka in action with a cotdog.

Hmm I think that it is a good thing that many sighthounds don't think the way you do. There are some extremely successful whippets in agility. They regularly beat the herding types. I have seen some great iggies in the agility ring. I have seen greyhounds but no other larger sighthounds.

I got Bounce AS an agility dog.. and she is a small sighthound (not even 20 pounds) So I hope she doesn't read you post as she really enjoys it and is showing lots of promise.

 

[borzoimom]

I agree- whippets do very well in agility. And seeing the earlier link posted so do greys.. Borzois take a different approach.. lol this is not my photo but funny as heck..

 

[CanadianK9]

Seen an afghan (sp?) do agilty once, that was a treat. It did quite well actually, though im not sure how far they went

 

[borzoimom]

Red - since the best part of this thread is you educating us all - can you explain what the difference is between these, on Penny's OFA record?

ELBOW Aug 10 2006 Sep 5 2006 24 DEGENERATIVE JOINT DISEASE I UNILATERAL LEFT
OVC ELBOWS Jul 10 2006 Oct 24 2006 24 OVC NORMAL

What is OVC and why did that come back as OVC normal? I'm guessing it is a different kind of exam, but I would love to hear more if you could explain or give some links!

Any degenerative disease only gets worse with age.. That is my concern.. NO matter the breed or person.. Getting worse with age hits too close to home with us. I dont understand if they knew she had a degenerative disease, why would she be bred when it could be passed on.. That is the level of confusion here.. To me little difference than breeding a dog with PRA- yea they are not blind now, but will loose thier sight... So why breed?

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Red - since the best part of this thread is you educating us all - can you explain what the difference is between these, on Penny's OFA record?

ELBOW Aug 10 2006 Sep 5 2006 24 DEGENERATIVE JOINT DISEASE I UNILATERAL LEFT
OVC ELBOWS Jul 10 2006 Oct 24 2006 24 OVC NORMAL

What is OVC and why did that come back as OVC normal? I'm guessing it is a different kind of exam, but I would love to hear more if you could explain or give some links!

OVC is essentially the Canadian counterpart to the OFA in the US. When Penny's 2 year old films came back with the same results as her prelims, with the left elbow DJD1 and the right normal, I sent the films to OVC to be evaluated by another individual.

This individual found her left elbow to be normal, as well as the right. These results are also disclosed on the OVC website.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Any degenerative disease only gets worse with age.. That is my concern.. NO matter the breed or person.. Getting worse with age hits too close to home with us. I dont understand if they knew she had a degenerative disease, why would she be bred when it could be passed on.. That is the level of confusion here.. To me little difference than breeding a dog with PRA- yea they are not blind now, but will loose thier sight... So why breed?

Please go to the OFA website and educate yourself, and stop typing incorrect and misleading information, please.


http://www.offa.org/edanswers.html

The term “degenerative joint disease†is often misunderstood and misinterpreted. “Degenerative†is defined as some distinct change from a normal state to a diseased state. It does not imply a continuing process in which the disease will progress and worsen continuously over time, and it is incorrect to assume that a dog with Grade I ED will eventually develop Grade II or III ED.

I plan to have Penny's elbows refilmed and submitted in later '09 when the rest of the litter is having their 2 year old health testing done. It will be very interesting to me as a breeder to see if there are any further changes indicated. There was no change between 12 and 24 months according to the rating she received.

 

[Beanie]

Any degenerative disease only gets worse with age.. That is my concern.. NO matter the breed or person.. Getting worse with age hits too close to home with us. I dont understand if they knew she had a degenerative disease, why would she be bred when it could be passed on.. That is the level of confusion here.. To me little difference than breeding a dog with PRA- yea they are not blind now, but will loose thier sight... So why breed?

What on earth does any of that have to do with my question about what the OVC is..?


You're right, BM. You don't understand. What you DO understand seems to be very little, actually.

 

[MafiaPrincess]

Red, do you plan on resending OVC and OFA again, or just to see if OFA decides their are changes? I was reading some months ago on one of the CKC lists that the Ontario veterinary college was going to stop taking films to rate at some point in I think 2009.. but I've never seen that info again since. People here were panicking as they like OVC's system.

There are some MACH afghans. Multi MACHs too. Any breed can excel. Part breed part handler determination to try.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

MP I had also heard that statement about OVC. I think it would depend on what OFA has to say. If there is no change, no. If there is change, and OVC is available and taking films, then yes.

 

[CanadianK9]

So let me get this straight....apparently 17 OTCH's, a bunch of SCH titles, a breeder and a more than basic knowledge of veterinary medicine. Where is it you actually find all the time for this?

 

[jess2416]

So let me get this straight....apparently 17 OTCH's, a bunch of SCH titles, a breeder and a more than basic knowledge of veterinary medicine. Where is it you actually find all the time for this?

yeah its funny what imaginary things people can come up with isnt it ?????

 

[CanadianK9]

yeah its funny what imaginary things people can come up with isnt is ?????

btw it's "it" and your sarcasm is less than tactful

 

[Baxter'smybaby]

btw it's "it" and your sarcasm is less than tactful

I don't think tact is really the big question here....know what I mean?

 

[AGonzalez]

btw it's "it" and your sarcasm is less than tactful

I think it's less than tactful to point out a typing error personally, but that's just me.

I don't see a lot of tact on the OP's side whatsoever, I do, however, see plenty of tactful comments on Red's side. I also read through all 10 pages of this garbage post, which was obviously incited only to get a rise out of Red.

My opinion is that BM has a problem because she's been pointed out as a fraud, multiple times. It's easy to point the finger at somebody else to detract from the negativity BM has subjected herself to.

Then again, I haven't been on Chaz for weeks, because I'm busy with real life and a Vet course, lol. However, I did see what was going on and this is neither the first, nor second time, and I doubt it will be the last time, that BM will attempt to discredit Red.

 

[Dakotah]

I think it's less than tactful to point out a typing error personally, but that's just me.

I don't see a lot of tact on the OP's side whatsoever, I do, however, see plenty of tactful comments on Red's side. I also read through all 10 pages of this garbage post, which was obviously incited only to get a rise out of Red.

My opinion is that BM has a problem because she's been pointed out as a fraud, multiple times. It's easy to point the finger at somebody else to detract from the negativity BM has subjected herself to.

Then again, I haven't been on Chaz for weeks, because I'm busy with real life and a Vet course, lol. However, I did see what was going on and this is neither the first, nor second time, and I doubt it will be the last time, that BM will attempt to discredit Red.

And here is the winner!

DINGDINGDING. :hail:

 

[borzoimom]

And here is the winner!

DINGDINGDING. :hail:

Nooooooooo here is the winner.. How many times do we see especially new people post sites or ask for " what do you think about this breeding" and get ambushed for whatever breeder. In reading countless threads like that, I had enough. Maybe next time someone asks for help with something especially genetic disorders, all should remember " let he is without sin cast the first stone..". Many disorders can show up generations later leaving one to scratch their head of " where on earth did this show up.." all because it was hiden at some level generations before. Case in point- I had a dog that showed up with rage. There was no reason to believe this could be genetic only later to find out two other dogs in that same line showed up with " Rage " only to be hidden and lost over generations. All pups in a litter, pet or not- breeding or not should be tested to determine if something passed in the genes- if nothing else than to determine if the original " breeding stock", while clean on the ones tested, did it work for all the pups? And what about the following generation? And the one after that? Any owner that has lost a pet to a degenerative disease knows the heart ache involved.. While I am sure ( or hope) the breeder shed some tears, the true ones that were hurt emotionally were the owners of the dog. I also have read threads of " why should I get this puppy when the breeder requires me to test so in so disease later.." only to get replies of " heck no would I do that.." Then get your pup somewhere else- this information is helpful to the breeder to know for future generations- ie preserving the pure bred dog. A lame dog can not work, a blind dog can not herd.. So how is allowing or permitting under any circumstances the over look of allowing a disease, especially one that shows up later in life, to continue.
Its the same problems with another breed I know very well. Cavaliers have degenerative heart problems, however usually by the time the signs show up the dogs have probably produced a litter by then. How do you determine if the breeding is probably clear of this???? BY CHECKING the records of the grandparents- something that use to be done by the parent club prior to the AKC. The breed club use to know all the dogs that were breeding. Since going AKC all the diseases the original parent club tried to clear was tossed into the wind.
My plans with Zubin to breed are seriously dashed.. And why??? Because his sister had a problem in reproduction and its not totally clear if its a sex link gene to pass on or a situational problem. When in doubt- ONE DOES NOT breed is my opinion. Any chance of spreading something- I would not breed.. Thats the preservation of the breed- to not even remotely potentially pass on something for future generations. On another site I also recently read soemthing like this 'breeding my dog. The mother had slipped patellas but my dog is fine..' type thing.. IN my mind I am thinking why risk it with your dogs puppies? The mentallity that dogs are disposable in health disgusts me.. No matter who or whomever it is.. Its time for breeders to take a hard look at this practice of breeding especially in light of the excess pet population.

 

[Dekka]

When in doubt- ONE DOES NOT breed is my opinion. Any chance of spreading something- I would not breed.. Thats the preservation of the breed- to not even remotely potentially pass on something for future generations.

In that case no one would breed. There are things in everyline of every dog out there. In which case would would not only have the loss of the purebred-but the loss of the canine species as we know it.

 

[CharlieDog]

BM, DJD1 is NOT A DEGENERATING DISEASE. It does NOT GET WORSE. She has all the health test records for her dog.

Obviously, yes, there are some things that show up later in life, after a dog has been bred. This is something she knew about before she decided to breed her dogs. This is something that, so far, HAS NOT BEEN PASSED DOWN, and more than likely there will be a few pups that have it, but so far, none do. All her puppy buyers were, I'm SURE, informed of the parents health testing results. Both are OUTSTANDING dogs in their breed, and I do NOT see why they shouldn't be passing down those genes. If I was interested in a Rottweiler, Red would be the very FIRST person I would go to. On the same token, if I wanted a Borzoi I would stay VERY FAR AWAY from you and your lines.

BM, you are sitting on a very very high horse. One day, if the fall off doesn't kill you, you may just LEARN something.

 

[golden&hovawart]

BM, DJD1 is NOT A DEGENERATING DISEASE. It does NOT GET WORSE. She has all the health test records for her dog.

Obviously, yes, there are some things that show up later in life, after a dog has been bred. This is something she knew about before she decided to breed her dogs. This is something that, so far, HAS NOT BEEN PASSED DOWN, and more than likely there will be a few pups that have it, but so far, none do. All her puppy buyers were, I'm SURE, informed of the parents health testing results. Both are OUTSTANDING dogs in their breed, and I do NOT see why they shouldn't be passing down those genes. If I was interested in a Rottweiler, Red would be the very FIRST person I would go to.

BM, you are sitting on a very very high horse. One day, if the fall off doesn't kill you, you may just LEARN something.

It's still not normal and a good breeder shouldn't have bred that dog!.