The GSD

[JennSLK]

So I want a Dutchie so I can do Sch with. BUT I cant do Sch I can only do DVG at the national level. Im not saying my dog will be good enough but what if it s? I want to strive for National level so that if I do get the chance I can take it.

DVG sounds great, BUT I would have to drive a MINIMUM of 12hrs to a club or event. EVERY event since the closest club in Canada is Ontario (Im in Alberta) or I would have to go to the states all the time wich isnt fesable.

Now I could do SchH localy but I couldnt do any of the big stuff and Im not sure if I would be satisfied with that. Im VERY competitive.

So maybe I should start looking at a GSD. Are solid blacks rare? If I got a GSD I would like a black. Dont ask me why because I dont know.

Can you give me some good info on the WORKING gsd? Can you point me to some good breeders? Thanx. Oh, I prefer canadian breeders but I will go else were for a good dog.

Do you guys think I should give up the Dutchie? I really want a competive agility dog as well. GRRRRRRRR I dont know what to do.

 

[wolfsoul]

I used to have GSDs, wonderful breed, but not the drive, speed, and agility of a dutchie. Still, good schutzhund dogs.

Solid blacks aren't rare at all; most breeders produce them, though it is a recessive trait, so you may have to wait for the right litter.

Here are some working breeders I found in Alberta:

Legend Kennels and k9 Training Academy - Edmonton
Guardian Angel Shepherds - Bowden

 

[JennSLK]

I so want my dutchie!! But i want to do competitive SchH as well. Grrr why cant life be easy.

Maybe I should just suck it up and do the travelling. I may not get to compete as often as I like but thats OK. I mean I could do the local SchH as warm ups i guess.

What are your guy's opinions?

 

[PWCorgi]

Get two doggies!

 

[JennSLK]

Get two doggies!

John has issues with one let alone two! LOL

 

[SummerRiot]

LMAo ohh man.. have fun with all those vet bills lmao!

4 dogs in training at the same time!! Your gunna be a busy girly if you get 2 dogs lol

Just get a Belgian Tervuren! lol Its like a Dutchy and a GSD in one.. lmao

 

[Dobiegurl]

I say stick with the Dutchie. Get your pup ready for local level attain a SchIII and by that time all the dogs in the house will be grown up and then if you are very interested in the sport get a GSD down the line and prepare it for national level.

 

[doberkim]

I would personally step back and think about what you really want. If you get a Dutchie, you can STILL SHOW in USA shows, you just cant go to USA nationals. DVG nationals are going to be a travel for you no matter WHAT - nationals most years mean EVERYONE has to travel.

Secondly, if you get a dutchie and just decide to drive 12 hours - is that going to be your home club? clubs train 2-3 times a WEEK - i dont think any club would let you join if you cant make any of the training. And even if you only compete a few times (most clubs only hold 1-2 trials a year anyway!), you have to think about what it will take to get to nationals and have a podium dog.

what training do you have locally? what do theyhave experience training? a TD often has preferences (and yes they are often GSDs) ? If I was going to take a Dobe to a club, it wouldnt be to a club that hates the breed. (I don't know honestly if Dutchies get discriminated against).

Personally, I would get the dog I wanted. I don't get dogs based on the goals I have for them in the sense that If i truly wanted an OTCH (And I do) - I would have a traditional obedience breed > if I wanted to show in agility (and I do), i would have a BC not a doberman. Can a dobe do these things? Yes - but clearly more goldens, BCs, aussies, etc excell...

But if you are concerned about getting a podium dog and you want to get to nationals, then get a GSD. There are some good lines, and blacks should be fairly easy to get from the right breeder - I like blacks, bicolors, and very dark sables myself. Schutzhund was made for GSDs, and it is their sport. Having a GSD certainly opens up the USA world, since you could do more of their trials and stuff, the sieger shows, etc.

 

[RD]

I'm way behind on this but have you considered a Belgian shepherd? I find that Belgians tend to do better in agility when up against dogs like Border Collies, Aussies etc.. Some GSDs are good agility dogs but honestly if you're that competitive, I don't think you'd enjoy it much. I've worked with two friends' GSDs in agility and they did okay, but my relatively untrained BC smoked their fastest runs in one try.

I do agree with Kim about getting the dog that you want, rather than getting the dog for that specific purpose. What good is a trophy winner if you don't enjoy living with it?

 

[JennSLK]

RD - Dutch Shepherd

 

[Zoom]

I would concentrate on the dogs you have now and the goals for them before getting another dog. At the moment, it seems like you're getting quite ahead of yourself and only enjoy a new dog for a short amount of time before thinking "what other dog could some thing else?"

You're young, you've got time!

 

[whatszmatter]

WHy couldn't you do competative SchH with a dutch shepherd?? I don't mean to be peeing in your cornflakes, but you're getting way way way ahead of yourself. Have you ever encountered a dutch shepherd, how many? How many working dogs in general have you encountered or trained with. Do you know and understand the steps in training used to get a dog to that level? How many of those dogs that you've seen are national level dogs?

I'm not trying to sound like a pessimist, I know I am, but i'm just trying to give some perspective. Dutch shepherds on whole, can be tempermental, they are more handler sensitive, they can be tricky to to train, they don't tolerate mistakes very well. Trust me, i don't care how many dogs you've trained or for what, training OB similair, tracking will probably be new, and bite work is a whole new ball game, especially when you incorperate the OB into the bitework. Being new, you will make tons and tons of mistakes. Dutchies don't usually tolerate handler mistakes very well.

Remember the woman I was telling you about the dutchie in our club. Perfect example. She's trained dog her whole life, well from early teens to early 30's. took a couple years off, still under 40 and got back into dogs. She used to train samoyeds ( I think) some to AKC CD and CDX levels. She is completely lost on what she's doing now. She has a young dog, who hasn't quite grown into himself yet (attitude wise). I have a very good feeling that this dog will be way too much for her eventually. She may prove me and others wrong, and that would be fine by me, but even so she will almost certainly never see a national event with this dog. There are far too many things that beginners do wrong to even have much of a chance.

Getting a dutch shepherd from strong lines could very likely end up to be too much dog for your first one in the sport. Very often someone new in the sport gets a good dog, a really good dog, one that leaves the old timers drooling because they rarely come across dogs like that, and the handlers are so new the dog is never going to go beyond a club trial. Usually the dog is so far ahead of the handler, the dog has no chance to show what it can really do.

My bes advice, is to find an older dog, if you really want a dutch shepherd great. I myself would get a GSD with some hardness to it, good drives, have some foundation training, and learn. They are generally more forgiving, and generally better for first timers, but again that can very greatly from dog to dog. Even if mistakes were made in the foundation training, you'll learn a lot more from fixing mistakes than having a dog do everything correctly right away.

Get that dog to learn from, and go train with a club as often as you can. Watch them work puppies young dogs and older dogs, absorb everything. Go to different clubs on different days, go to seminars to see different philosphies, tricks to get points, and styles of training and to see different dogs and see how you have to change your approach to every single dog in every single situation to bring out the best in that dog. in 10 or 15 years you might now and have seen enough to be able to bring a dog to the national level.

 

[doberkim]

exactly. few people have their first dog in bite sport get to the national level. few people have their first obedience dog get an OTCH. few people have their first agility dog get a MACH.

it takes time, and learning from your mistakes. which you will make MANY of. i too have doubts about a dutchie (since i know many people with them, and have discussed owning dutchies, since i ADORE the breed), and there is a resaon why i dont have one right now in my life!

 

[JennSLK]

The local Sch club is mainly GSDs with some mals, rotties, ect... I talked to the DVG people and if the club in ON would alow me to be a member so I can compete in certain trials then it would be OK.

I know there is a 99% chance I WHONT make it to the National level but there is nothing wrong with striving for that rank as long as I know the chances and am not disapointed if i dont make it there.

The locak Sch club is letting me watch training evern sunday I can make it and will train me in helper work. Not certified but so I can help at training.

WHEN I get my dutchie I plan on spending a week at the breeders (if I choose this breeder) learning more about the breed from her (she has two Sch3 duthies) and atending her DVG training classes. I will contiue to work closely with her as she's only 12hrs away.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

I'm with Zoom.

You have a puppy.

Concentrate on her, and her future, and her potential.

 

[doberkim]

no offense, but any club that lets you train in being a helper without truly understanding the sport is not a club i would go to - it takes a LONG TIME to become a good helper, and iw ouldnt let just anyone get out there and catch my dog - dogs can be seriously injured by poor helpers (and i mean physically) - forget what bad helpers can do for a dogs drive, etc.

 

[DanL]

Thats a good point doberkim. The helper is really more important than the handler- knowing when to push a dog harder, when to back off, etc. A good helper can make the handler a lot better.

 

[whatszmatter]

becoming a certified helper, as long as your semi atheletic and put in the time isn't terribly hard relatively speaking. Learing to read dogs and when to push and back off as DanL said is the hard part. The in's and outs of being a good training helper are thousands of times more complicated than being certified in trial work.

Again, i'm not trying to squash your enthusiasm, get that sleeve on, learn the mechanics, work some seasoned dogs, have fun. Just know that it takes many years to become an adequate training helper. Its completely addicting, and very hard work. Just wait till they make you do escapes and drives back to back to back to back to back and run away prey bites just to see how far you'll run. They guys that taught me made sure I wanted to work dogs, not just be able to say I did.

 

[JennSLK]

Thats what they want to tech me. It's not like they are going to put dogs on me my first day out. They are going to show me so I can learn.

You guys are acting like I said I am going to be doing it by myself. They said I could help out. If that means getting things for a helper fine so be it. They are going to teach me to become a helper so I will be able to help in training. EVENTUALLY

get that sleeve on, learn the mechanics, work some seasoned dogs, have fun

Thats what I wil lbe doing. They arent going to start me on year old dogs. Im excited because I think there is alot to learn from the sport by being a helper

 

[Dobiegurl]

Thats a good point doberkim. The helper is really more important than the handler- knowing when to push a dog harder, when to back off, etc. A good helper can make the handler a lot better.

I agree. A helper must know how far to push a dog without putting it in avoidance.