Sofa/couch on or off?

[OscarandToy]

We met with a trainer this weekend in preparation for getting a new puppy in addition to our current 3 year old jack russell.
She told us we should not be letting the Jack on the couch with us. Now I know most people don't let their dogs on the couch but I have always enjoyed having the dog on the couch while we are watching tv (even when I had large dogs). She says that in doing this he thinks he is the alpha in the family because he is literally "walking all over us". I agree we have issues with him. But, do I really have to kick him off the couch? We arleady kicked him off the bed years ago and that went smoothly. If I promise to stick to the other training issues (she wants us to use a choker and stop using a harness to control him better on walks... not too keen on that either) can I keep him on the couch? Same question for letting him sit in my lap while I am working on the computer.

I guess it was never an issue with other breeds that weren't as... stuborn as jacks are.

 

[Saje]

Most dogs can share the bed/couch without any problems. I guess it depends on your particular circumstance but I bet you can work around it

 

[PWCorgi]

she wants us to use a choker

If you don't want to use a choker then don't. I'd say get a new trainer if possible. I don't like chokers, they can damage a dogs throat.

As far as the couch thing goes, he probably shouldn't get on the couch if you are having issues. If you don't have issues, then I don't see why being on the couch would be bad. Also, there are other ways to become dominant than just keeping him off the furniture. Does he fight you (snapping, growling, not moving) when you tell him to get off the couch?

 

[TAVS]

Mason stays on the floor. He has a bed that's just as comfortable as the couch. There's no need for him to sit next to me when he can sit on the floor next to my feet.

 

[OscarandToy]

Does he fight you (snapping, growling, not moving) when you tell him to get off the couch?

He gets off the couch right away without any comment but he comes right back 2 minutes later or the minute he knows my attention is elsewhere.

He doesn't bite. But he does raise his lip (snarl) at my husband over balls/toys which I admit my husband encourages by making it a game. He is also a leash tugger and is aggressive with other dogs when he is on a leash (the dog not my husband )

I'd like to find a trainer that uses the freindly approach as apposed to punishment but so far all the trainers I have seen have been "choker" fans. I guess I'll just keep trying. I think Jack russells are capable of choking themselves to the death they are so stuborn.

 

[IliamnasQuest]

There are a number of things you can do to help establish your leadership within the family group. Dogs do what works for them, and if they find that they can get away with certain things (and are of the temperament to take advantage of that) then it can become a problem.

When I have someone come to me with a dog who is challenging them in some way, I set up rules that help re-establish the people as the dominant ones in the household. This often includes not letting the dog on the furniture. It's because the sharing of the area can help the dog think they have more status than they should have. BUT - often once the problems are resolved, the dog can be allowed back up on some of the furniture and it will be okay.

Some dogs have more naturally submissive natures and the rules aren't really needed for them. Some dogs are naturally more dominant and need to follow ALL of the rules. It depends on each particular dog, so a blanket answer won't fit every situation.

If you're having problems with your dog behaviorally - especially if he is challenging you in any way - I would say that setting some very definite rules is in order. I've put some of this on my website (www.kippsdogs.com/tips.html). Along with that you can practice "NILIF" (nothing in life is free) by making him work for his food, for toys, for treats, for attention, etc.

As far as the use of a choke collar - I am absolutely 100% against the use of a choke collar. If you like the harness, you may want to look into one of the harnesses that use a ring at the chest (like the Gentle Leader Harness). This is a very effective tool to keep dogs from pulling and doesn't involve choking. You just don't build a good relationship with a dog while you're squeezing its trachea.

Good luck and don't be afraid to question what your trainer is telling you.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

 

[RD]

First off, I wouldn't ever use a choke chain to control pulling and I would avoid any trainer that advises people to do so.

Second, I would agree that some NILIF is in order here. This involves removing sofa privileges. The dog CAN eventually join you on the sofa, but he needs to earn it first. I allow my dominant dog on the furniture, but he needs to get off when I tell him to and cannot join me on a chair or sofa unless I invite him up.

 

[PWCorgi]

I would think that there would be a lot of dog trainers around Paris seeing as it is so big, I bet if you dig hard enough that you'll find the perfect trainer .

As far as being dog-aggressive, the choke could make it worse, you want the dog to associate seeing other dogs with good things, not pain or correction (a little something that I learned from dr2little ). The choke might also cover up the pulling problem, but as soon as you put him back in a harness or flat coller, he will pull again.

 

[OscarandToy]

(www.kippsdogs.com/tips.html).

Thanks Melanie (and the gang) for the tips.

I think I'm going to give up on the trainers all together and just get a good book. That plus all these helpfull responses should do it.

So, I guess I am going to give up the couch which should be easier now that its summer/warm. Ofcourse he is sitting in my lap as I write but... I'll get my game plan straight before acting so that I will be consistant.

Thanks to all!

 

[PWCorgi]

If you do decide to go it on your own, then PLEASE keep us updated and post any and all questions/problems that you have, and don't go by what just one book says, good luck .

 

[OscarandToy]

I'll keep my eyes open for a trainer but so far not happy with any yet

 

[Roxy's CD]

OscarandToy I just decided a couple of days ago to start "restricting" Roxy's couch privileges. You may not believe me but I have seen a change in her. She used to rumble and snarl when asked to get off, and now she is absolutely delighted to be allowed on the couch and when asked to get off, no problem she moves to the floor or in front of the air conditioner.

I feel the same way as you. I just like to cuddle with my dogs while watching a movie or tv. And their good foot warmers, but when they start snarling and growling you've gotta draw the line. My trainer had been telling me for weeks that it was inappropriate but I just had to find out in my own time.

Try it. For one day. Any time he goes to get on the couch, "non!" , "off!", firmly. I was surprised myself but it really does help.

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

If he has dominance issues, he should not be allowed on furniture.

 

[LabBreeder]

i admit i didn't read the other posts . but we've always allowed ours on the couch. Tira actually has her own loveseat. it's her bed and she knows it. she naps on it and sleeps there at night. georgia (JRT/Chi mix) used to curl up beside me or in the corner of the couch when no one was sitting there. gunner isn't big enough to jump on the couch by himself, but when he's put up there Tira doesn't object. i don't know if they'll both fit when he's full grown, but we'll see.
personally, i've never had a problem training, or showing who's "alpha" in the house because of any of our dogs being on the couch. i guess it depends on the breed, their personality, trainability and the owner.

no advice to give, just thought i'd share with ya.

 

[Gustav]

My mum had dominace issues with one of her small dogs when she was young, I think it was a Yorkie cross, not sure! Anyway, she was advised to pretend to eat from her dogs food bowl before putting it down for Suki to eat, that way it was a clear sign to Suki that Mum was dominant because she ate first and Suki second. It did help actually.

And ours have always been couch dogs, but they will get down without hesitation if I tell them to, they also sleep in bed with me *Blushes*

 

[IliamnasQuest]

Best of luck to you, and there's nothing wrong with working on some things on your own. If you can find someone who really understands dog behavior and doesn't want to go right into corrections and use of corrective collars, it wouldn't hurt to have a consultation and see how things are going.

I had a Jack Russell stay with me for a few weeks for training years back. He was a VERY dominant guy - may have been a small dog in stature, but he was HUGE in attitude! *L* I still have a scar where he bit me. He was a dog that had to have all the rules put into place as he was terrorizing his household (they couldn't move if he jumped up and laid on the couch - he'd bite them).

Once the rules were established and he figured out that he couldn't get around it all, he settled right down. It was like night and day. I actually really liked the little guy, as bratty as he was. But he DEFINITELY needed to have the boundaries set and for his people to stick by those boundaries, because he had the ability to rule the roost otherwise.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

 

[Doberluv]

As long as you DO have rules and boundaries and follow through, making sure he learns what they are and complies (reinforce with reward) and you be the one who decides most things, there should be no problem with letting your dogs on the couch. It's not the particular items of behavior that are important. It's that the rules that you do have are followed and that you act and the dog reacts to your direction. I have two Chihuahuas, a Doberman Pinscher and now, a new addition, a Pit Bull mix of some sort. (My son's dog who with my son is now living with me) All four are allowed on the couches to snuggle when we watch TV. But they all have things that are expected of them....manners, obedience type stuff etc and there is NEVER a challenge from any of them...never has been. If you act like a leader, confident, in charge, fair, gentle but insist on your rules being followed consistantly....teach the dogs the rules with reinforcement, you should have no problems. It's the dogs who are allowed to have everything go their way, who demand things; attention, toys, playtime and the owners who invariably respond in some way to their dogs' every whim....like a spoiled child. Those are usually the dogs who start trying to call the shots.

I recommend obedience class. It's very good for pups, but do find a reputable trainer who relies on motivation and reward, not punishment for teaching dogs things. Ask around, find someone who understands operant conditioning. This method is very effective and doesn't cause the wear and tear on a dog that more traditional yank and scold methods do...which sounds like the trainer you were talking about. These outdated methods are just not necessary and can cause harm. A choke collar is absolutely not needed on such a small dog or any dog for that matter. I wouldn't dream of risking injury to such a small neck. My goodness. A lot of people call themselves trainers and they're really in the dark ages. You should observe one class first before signing up and make sure the methods and the personality of the trainer feels right to you. Go with your gut feeling.

A book I love and recommend is Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson. It is excellent and another one I liked was The Other End of the Leash, by Patricia McConnell. I wish I had read them sooner is all I can say. They're immensely helpful.

Good luck.

 

[cowgurl6254]

Both of my dogs are allowed on the couch, but only when I give them permission. They aren't allowed to just jump up on their own. They wait for me to ask them to come up. It's never been a problem at all.

 

[smkie]

i don't want them on the floor. Especially Mary, so ON deffinately. Better for their joints.

 

[Bailey+Ralph]

Bailey is allowed on the furniture but will get down if told to.
I didn't know that the Dominance thing involved where the dog is allowed to sleep though.
So just a question...........
If we get up from a seat, even if only for a minute Bailey will take that seat (he will get down if told) and also if he thinks your going to take a particular seat he will jump up there 1st...........Is this telling us that he is Alpha when he does this?