S/n okay for pets, but not for people?

Juicy

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#1
Why is it okay for a dog to be s/n & not a person? And not the whole because a dog is different from a human. Because you'll use that same excuse when someone thinks its foolish to spend x amount on vet bills, because its ''just a dog''...and you go its not JUST A DOG!

Why if the animal's health is not at risk is this so important to the animal community? And then people who don't our bashed for doing so. The human population is just as overly populated as the dog population, but you don't see mothers telling their daugthers to get their tubes tied? You get all down a person's throat for saying its not your choice whether to tie tubes & such for another person, but when it comes to someone ELSES dog, your on theirs? Like their this horrible person for not doing so? What if they just don't want to put their dog in such a risky operation? Like it or not, that could bethe last time you can see your dog if god forbid something goes wrong on the table. And then they're selfish because they want offspring from their dog, but isn't beinging selfish by making a choice to remove something God intentionally put there? Just like most of us feel its OUR DESIRE to reproduced even though there's tons of kids that need adopting and there is alot of huma overpopulation, can't you see the desire to reproduce in your pets as well? The way a dog finds a toy to mother when she is not able to produce a liter of her own?

Also the whole prevention thing.

#1 to prevent illness. Would you fix yourself if it meant to prevent cancer? My thing is if its going happen, its going to happen. There's so much prevention you can do. So you're going to stop tanning to prevent cancer, why strip yourself from something, when if you didn't know that applying sunblock prevents cancer, you would of probably die cancer-free anyways even living your whole life without applying sunblock, I mean sunblock hasn't been around forever, yet peope manged to live cancer-free.

#2 To prevent unwanted litters. When a person has an oops, you just go **** happens & congrats them. When a person dog has an oops litter, you bash them for beinging irresponsible. But say if their teen gets pregnant by accident....THAT was something you couldn't prevent and you say **** happens...but that doesn't make you irresponsible on bit, even though that is your very OWN offspring. You don't see them apologizing that it was my fault, ect, ect. But if someone here has an oops litter, they feel like they must apologize for it? Or if its not an oops and it was intentional, they feel they must cover it up as an oops to make themselves seem like a good dog owner. Why can't it be that a person can COMMIT themseves to prevent it, that IT MUST BE DONE BY S/N? We prevent unwanted pregnancies by condoms, there's ways to prevent a dog from having an oops litter too. Athough neither way are 100% effective, just because its not 100% you don't go around telling people to get fixed so they can stop them from having an oopsie.

And then there's always that exception....to better the breed. When we choose our mates, do we really look into who has the best genes? And even if the genes are great....nothing in life is perfect, there's always going to something wrong.

Sometimes I feel like that I'm beinging pressure by the animal community to s/n and I'm doing it for THEM, not me, or my dog. Personaly I HATE any sort of sugery, unless its NEEDED. When I had a broken bone, it was okay to go under the knife. Because I have fat feet, I COULD get an arch, but its not something I think I should risk my life for. Thats how I feel about s/n, because I can't stand the chance of losing my dog, for something thats not even needed. What if I want to keep them unaltered, is that so wrong? Is it so wrong for me to feel that I would like to have an offspring of my dogs? But then I get stripped of that choice for the well-sake of making OTHER people feel better? Sure it prevents stuff, and makes things like shots ess expensive, but really does it make a person that horrible for not doing so? Sometimes I feel some people are targeted as if they've done something criminial to their dogs for not havinging them s/n.

Please don't take this personal! I'm just posting my honest opinion! Personally I feel like I could keep my dogs from mating if I wanted to, and it really is uncall for the surgery, and I although I can lose my dog and her pups from a pregnancy, atleast thats NATURE'S call, not mines, but I would really like to have an offspring from my dogs, just like a parent would like a grandchild. Sorry its just my way of thinking, sorry for beinging so boast and truthful, and its hard to say something like this on here, but its just the way I feel, sorry if its not your way of thinking. I aways fet ike I should just shut up & just agree, but this is how I fee and I don't see just because I'm the minority that I shouldn't be allowed to express my true feelings. I am going to s/n Didi & Princess (Pepe came altered), but sometimes I do find myself asking myself is this what I really want or am I just doing it to please others to keep their mouths shut & not make me seem like such a ''terrible'' dog owner. But my question is does it really make you any less a bad owner if you don't? If you DO breed, even for one times sake? I always hear do things FOR YOU, don't make decisions to please others. If I feel I am doing the best for my dogs by keeping them this way, who's to say I'm not? Its not ike I'm torturing them for keeping their thing things intact....I mean unless they get blue balls or something lol....but to wake up ball-less and unabe to produce seems much much worst. Also when yo usee a I just got my dog s/n...its not a happy post...its my poor baby...stripped of their manhood...seems so depressed...and that doesn't make me think that s/n is realy the best thing ever as it seems to be protrayed. Sometimes I feel I don't see the NEED to be so harsh on a pet owner who wants or had breed their dog, or wants to keep their dog intact, just because. Even over something silly as I'm not taking my dog's manhood away.

Might be a stupid thing to ask, but has anyone felt or feels this way as well? Or am I just one very ignorant person? :eek:
 

Muggie'sMum

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#2
Interesting opinion to say the least....

Precisely why I know what I do with my animals, and I share, but I don't try to force my beliefs and values down the throats of anyone.

With human vs animal, it comes down to RIGHT. It is a human "right" to reproduce (though I have to say I think some of these people who have three and four and five kids taken away by CPS need to be speutered).
 

Zoom

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#3
They tried to implement something like this back in the early 1900's, it was called "eugenics". However, they were singling out "undesireable" segments of society to be forcefully sterilized and it usually came back to racism or other forms of prejudice.

In theory it would be a great idea to keep the people who shouldn't reproduce from doing so, but where do you start that process? With single mothers? People with mental illness/disabilities? Criminals? People below a certain income level? Orphans?
 
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#4
Dogs don't have a "manhood". That's a human emotion that you are putting on your dog. They don't think like people do. I guarantee you that my dog doesn't stop and wonder what happened to his balls. (In fact I just asked him if he missed them and he just took off to play some more. He must not miss them too much ;))

Now I think there are people who are responsible enough to keep their dogs intact, and I say more power to them. I personally don't like to take chances and I really don't have a reason the keep them intact. So all my animals are fixed. That's why they are vaccinated too. Animals can have reactions to vaccines, but I think the benefits outweigh the risks, which is the same view I have toward spaying/neutering. Now if there was a medical or some other legitimate reason, then that would change things.

The human arguement is just ridiculous. You're comparing apples to oranges because dogs aren't people. I love my dogs, but they are not people.
 

Juicy

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#5
Now if there was a medical or some other legitimate reason, then that would change things.
Can't it just be based on your own belief? Maybe you're just such a religious person that you don't believe in altering an animal. Or if your subjected to fear of a sugery going horribly wrong & just like sometimes you don't let your dog do certain things, because you won't...like jump in a pool of sharks..that has imprinted on your decision s/n?
 
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#6
Like I said earlier, I don't care if people don't spay/neuter their animals as long as they are responsible enough to keep them from breeding irresponsibly. What you quoted are the only reasons why I personally may not fix my own dog.
 

Zoom

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#7
I don't have an issue with responsible people keeping intact animals, but the percentage of people able to do that seem to be fairly limited to the people on this board and some of the show/sport/working crowd.
 

BostonBanker

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#8
I don't have an issue with responsible people keeping intact animals, but the percentage of people able to do that seem to be fairly limited to the people on this board and some of the show/sport/working crowd.
And sometimes they screw up, too.

I basically agree with GeorgyGirl. My pets will always be fixed; for my lifestyle, it is the right choice. I help at a rescue, and I will not take the risk that my carelessness would result in one of those animals being killed instead of placed.

Can't it just be based on your own belief? Maybe you're just such a religious person that you don't believe in altering an animal. Or if your subjected to fear of a sugery going horribly wrong & just like sometimes you don't let your dog do certain things, because you won't...like jump in a pool of sharks..that has imprinted on your decision s/n?
Of course it can. You can leave your dogs intact for any reason you want, because that is the law (for now). But it does leave you open to judgement, and you just need to be confident enough in your beliefs that you don't let it bother you. I can also say that I think 99% of pet dogs should be fixed because of my beliefs. That's what opinions are:).
 

Saje

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#9
A couple key points are:

a) people can be educated about overpopulation

b) cats and dogs have litters. most people do not

c) people are the key cause of the high pet population. this is one way of setting things right

d) 'extra' pets will be put to sleep. people will not.

but you've raised some interesting points and I think the best thing is for people to be responsible.
 

Julie

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#10
People and dogs should not be compared. It's like comparing apples to oranges, like said before.
Yes there are many people that (I think) should not reproduce... Lol But those people have rights, they have ability to think beyond only a "dog in heat"... the "smell is right" lets get it on. They are making a decision for themselves... a dog it is purely instinct, without thought of where their puppies will end up.

I also have intact dogs. It takes a great deal of planning, experience, and knowhow to prevent an unwanted litter. I have managed succesfully, but the time has come, when I just want to enjoy my dogs... not trying to think of all the "what ifs"... Charlie will be neutered soon. And then Shiloh will be next. Rocket will be left intact for awhile longer, due to her working abilities and her contract with the county.

I love animals and my dogs just as much as anyone could, and I know that for the MAJORITY of pets, it is in that best interest of that pet to be altered. PERIOD!
 
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Squishy22

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#11
I think its doing the dog a favor when you get him fixed. I mean, who wants to be sexually frustrated their entire lives or constantly looking for a mate? I feel sad when I see a male dog that cant seem to get one thing off of their minds, seriously. And I am sure a female dog also gets extremely sexually frustrated, esspecially when they are in heat! There is no need for it.
 
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#13
I kinda agree with the OP. There is no reason to judge people for if they spay/or neuter IF (big if) they CAn control their dog and are not irresponsible with them (leave a female in heat unatended in a easil accesible back yard for a male. Leave a male in a back yard where he can escape and find a female ect) I myself havnt snipped my boy, and I doubt i ever will. I never did in the beggining becuase well I wasnt as informed as I am now about disease and such. But I'm lucky I didnt becuase he has a bad heart murmur and with a simple surgery could have died on the table, honestly I wont bother sniping him with a chance he may not come out of a sleep on the table. All my other dogs in my life with the exception of one was fixed. I would always spay a female as long as medical reasons allow me to as I just dont like to deal with heats.My dog has zero chance of getting out of our back yard to another female (we live in a town house, we are the foruth house in so that means he would have to dig under 6 or 7 fences which are all 10 feet high to even get). He is under control at all times. Doesnt leave the house with out me and has a 110% reliable recall from anything (Trust me. I have called him away from herds of deer, rabbits,cats ,birds). He has been around a female in heat. I didnt know she was inheat until after about a hour of walking, loose, in the dog park together. When he told me she was in heat. I was in shock for 2 reasons. A) Blaze didnt care and didnt act any differently towards her, they see each other atleast 3 times a week. I think if they can be responsibly hanled and treated that it isnt bad to not speuter them. I dont look down on any one who doesnt, who would I be to do that any way as I havnt done it with my dog. I only look down on bad breeders and bad owners.
 
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#14
I honestly find your view very ignorant.

Frankly many people don't watch their children,
Kids at younger ages such as 12 do have babies.
Unlike dogs though they keep the child, put it
up adoption, into a foster home etc.
Do we kill those children???

The comparison is way out there in my opinion.
Dogs do not eventually grow up and take care of
themselves now do they? They rely on us humans
to take care of them. Its our responsibility as
a society to stop these deaths.

Do you know how man owners have said "I can
control my dog, it will not happen to us".
Sure, then they have an "oops" litter a week
later. Fact is the majority of owners, even
well meaning do have "oops".

To even ask this question you need to do some
volunteer work at an overcrowded shelter, maybe
you should even help put tons of dogs to sleep
every day, and then come back on here on repost.
If you posted the same thing I would say you
are a monster quite frankly.

I will leave the "breed my dog" debate to other
people, its amazing that you have such a huge
amounts of posts on here but have not seen
that conversation a million times on this forum...
It sounds like you just want to make some money
breeding.
 
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yoko

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#15
i think pets should be s/n but i would never push my beliefs onto anyone. my friends for example had a chocolate lab. they took it in to get neutered. get a phone call. it died during the operation, turns out it had some weird blood thing and it's blood wouldn't clot and it died. now they have another boy dog. and they are terrified to have it neutered. the chances of that happening again are extremely slim. knowing what they went through with their dog i wouldn't never just go up and tell them they need to s/n. i think it needs ot be done but i believe they have a legit reason to be afraid of it
 

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#16
After the above post, I went back and read the OP more carefully - I found it incredibly hard to read and had skimmed a bit at first.

and I although I can lose my dog and her pups from a pregnancy, atleast thats NATURE'S call, not mines, but I would really like to have an offspring from my dogs, just like a parent would like a grandchild.
Take a look at your dogs. "NATURE" did not produce your dogs. "NATURE" would never produce animals like that, because they are not capable of surviving in nature. Looking at it from a 'natural' standpoint, or that of it being against a religion to mess with nature,is ridiculous. I have no doubt that they are sweet, well-loved and well-cared for dogs, but they are not a natural breed. Nature has already been messed with.

And yes, I will say it is selfish to breed them. Just my opinion, much as you are stating yours. I'm not totally stuck on the "all dogs need to be show champions to breed" train, but they sure need to prove themselves somehow. #1 is health testing - Have you done it? Will you do it?

Here's my take on breeding. You need to be able to go to a shelter, look at a young, healthy dog of similar breeding as yours, and say, "Yes, my litter is important enough that this dog can die for it". Because that is what happens. There are only so many homes out there - you make three more puppies, and three more dogs have to die. I do think some litters are worth it; breeds need to be preserved and improved upon. But that better be one well-thought out litter.

I kind of thought this was another thread about whether or not you have to spay or neuter, and as others have stated, SOME people can manage intact dogs, and if it is a carefully thought out decision, I will respect it. Once you get into breeding, that's a very different thing.
 

~Jessie~

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#17
Please don't take this personal! I'm just posting my honest opinion! Personally I feel like I could keep my dogs from mating if I wanted to, and it really is uncall for the surgery, and I although I can lose my dog and her pups from a pregnancy, atleast thats NATURE'S call, not mines, but I would really like to have an offspring from my dogs, just like a parent would like a grandchild.
You've been a member on this forum for a long time, and I thought better of you than this. I think that this train of thought is absolutely sickening.

Honestly, one of your dog's has glaucoma and is blind. You couldn't afford the surgery, so how do you think you are going to afford to breed your dogs?! I thought that all 3 of your dogs are rescues?! NONE of them should be bred, and I think it's sad that you are even considering it.

Didn't the two puppies come from Petland? Do you realize where Petland puppies come from?

Just what the world needs... more dogs full of congenital defects. Why can't you just let your dogs be pets? There are enough pet quality dogs in this world.

Just my two cents.
 

sparks19

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#18
#1 to prevent illness. Would you fix yourself if it meant to prevent cancer? My thing is if its going happen, its going to happen. There's so much prevention you can do. So you're going to stop tanning to prevent cancer, why strip yourself from something, when if you didn't know that applying sunblock prevents cancer, you would of probably die cancer-free anyways even living your whole life without applying sunblock, I mean sunblock hasn't been around forever, yet peope manged to live cancer-free.
Actually did you know that for a human female.... having a child reduces your risk of breast and ovarian cancer... twice that if you breastfeed.

AND.... YES I would stop tanning because I don't need to increase my risk of skin cancer. In fact I already don't tan and personally I think people that use tanning beds are silly. WHY? are you so vain that you would increase your risk of skin cancer ten fold just so you could look "pretty"? PUT ON SOME MAKE UP why fake n bake? that was one fad I never understood.

And while I don't really like the way some people are bashed on this board for not s/n their pets.... I do agree that it should be done. It has been proven that leaving them intact only opens them up for more diseases. Why would you risk that? They don't have a voice.... they can't ASK to be s/n.... they can't say "Hey I don't want to get this disease or be at risk for other things that can happen if I am left intact." So I will do what I think is in my pets best interest. and I will try to educate others but I won't badger and belittle them to do it.

But on the other hand... dogs ALSO can't ask or give consent for you to breed them. A person makes a conscious decision to have a child.... YOU are making the choice for your dog. You say it is not right to put your opinions on your dogs but yet you are thinking of forcing your dog to have puppies even if she might not want to go through all of that. AND you could just as easily lose your dog while she is in labor as you could by s/n them.... don't you find it just as selfish to risk it by getting her pregnant?

how would you like it if your mother forced you to have a child and gave you no say in it?
 
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#19
I like BB didnt read thw whole thing. But I did go back and read it. This quote bothers me too.
Personally I feel like I could keep my dogs from mating if I wanted to, and it really is uncall for the surgery, and I although I can lose my dog and her pups from a pregnancy, atleast thats NATURE'S call, not mines, but I would really like to have an offspring from my dogs, just like a parent would like a grandchild.
Why would you want a dog from them? You do know most dogs do not have just one dog. To me this is selfish. To breed just to have one of them. You wont risk surgery becuase you may lose them, but you will risk their life for your own selfish wasnts such as breeding them? Sorry but that is just plain selfish. Spaying and such is one thing, People can be good dog owners and not spay. But to honestly breed JUST so you can have some of their offspring is just... i dont know.. I cant think of words. Its just wrong, nothing would be the exact same. its plain selfish.

Going back in your posts you have already had one unwanted/mistake litter where the pup(ies?) died. Why would you want to go through that again?
 

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