I've heard that before and I gotta say bull crap to that comparison. Mothers don't want their child to get hurt, it is just a possibility, like sports is a possibility that children would get hurt. Dog fighters purposely put their dogs in a pit knowing darn well that these dogs will get hurt, but do it anyways to prove what exactly ? Gameness, something that is only used in a pit. Why? Why do they need a game dog in the first place? Why create a gamedog, that is a question that I like to know.
Questions for bully & APBTA 'type' owners
- Thread starter Dogdragoness
- Start date
I do have to agree with Pops on style.
My malinois fight by slamming, snapping, and noise. IME this is common of non-bulldog style dogs such as labs, goldens, and even sibes that I've seen fight. I'm not sure about terriers, my RTs were vicious but the other terriers, such as the wirefox, the wheaten, the kerry blue, and the mixes there of, we've owned were never fighters.
My pit bulls fight by getting on really good grab and grinding and flexing their jaws. Re-bites with Arnold take forever, we gave up "Wait for a re-bite to pull them apart" after his first fight. Shamoo will re-bite more frequently because she's more frantic.
My malinois fight by slamming, snapping, and noise. IME this is common of non-bulldog style dogs such as labs, goldens, and even sibes that I've seen fight. I'm not sure about terriers, my RTs were vicious but the other terriers, such as the wirefox, the wheaten, the kerry blue, and the mixes there of, we've owned were never fighters.
My pit bulls fight by getting on really good grab and grinding and flexing their jaws. Re-bites with Arnold take forever, we gave up "Wait for a re-bite to pull them apart" after his first fight. Shamoo will re-bite more frequently because she's more frantic.
You ask a very good question, and my answer would be to delve yourself into history. Read about the time period all this came about it. Learn about the people. Learn about their lives. Learn about their animals, and the roles those animals played.
Your questions have answers...you just have to open your mind and your ears and your eyes to obtain them.
You may not understand, much less agree, but the answers are there.
Your questions have answers...you just have to open your mind and your ears and your eyes to obtain them.
You may not understand, much less agree, but the answers are there.I look at it this way, and forgive me I cant help it.
Dogs trust in YOU. The owner to do what is best for them. And under no circumstance is putting the dog in a pit to fight is what is best for them. And dog. Any breed.
A dog cannot premeditate the idea that if he goes into a pit to fight he can get ripped apart. Maybe he can recognize the memory after he is put into the pit, but does not lie around thinking "hmmm, if I go into a ring and fight, I just may have my snout ripped off.." That is where the owner comes in. The owner premeditates the idea and then follows thru by entertaining the idea.
Given a choice, if the dog could understand actually questions with every word, if you asked "Would you like to fight today? Are you sure, you may end up torn apart or even die" I find it hard to believe the dog would say "ok!" Bring on the pain!
Dogs trust in YOU. The owner to do what is best for them. And under no circumstance is putting the dog in a pit to fight is what is best for them. And dog. Any breed.
A dog cannot premeditate the idea that if he goes into a pit to fight he can get ripped apart. Maybe he can recognize the memory after he is put into the pit, but does not lie around thinking "hmmm, if I go into a ring and fight, I just may have my snout ripped off.." That is where the owner comes in. The owner premeditates the idea and then follows thru by entertaining the idea.
Given a choice, if the dog could understand actually questions with every word, if you asked "Would you like to fight today? Are you sure, you may end up torn apart or even die" I find it hard to believe the dog would say "ok!" Bring on the pain!
There's a local woman who owns and shows Lakelands, and she keeps breaksticks in every room of her house. She said she learned her lesson early on the hard way.
My former horse vet raises hunting JRTs, and his dogs are also "grab, hold, and shake" kinda dogs. He has to crate and rotate several of them, as some get along and others do not. But he's said he's had some vicious fights break out before he realized which dogs got along (or tolerated one another). He, too, owns a smaller scale break stick for his dogs.
My former horse vet raises hunting JRTs, and his dogs are also "grab, hold, and shake" kinda dogs. He has to crate and rotate several of them, as some get along and others do not. But he's said he's had some vicious fights break out before he realized which dogs got along (or tolerated one another). He, too, owns a smaller scale break stick for his dogs.
it's a fair comparison especially during an active war.
that is a tough call because the brit & irish dogs (and those created from them) are the only fighting dogs that have truly been game. that is why most other countries fighting dogs are 2or 3 times their size. i don't think i can really answer the why because i didn't create them. I only know the value of them now and how they improve other breeds for other purposes.
i'll cogitate on that & if i can come up w/ a rational answer i'll let you know. off the top of my head, the line from Jurassic Park comes to mind "you were so busy trying to figure out if you could do it that you never stopped to think if you should'
that is a tough call because the brit & irish dogs (and those created from them) are the only fighting dogs that have truly been game. that is why most other countries fighting dogs are 2or 3 times their size. i don't think i can really answer the why because i didn't create them. I only know the value of them now and how they improve other breeds for other purposes.
i'll cogitate on that & if i can come up w/ a rational answer i'll let you know. off the top of my head, the line from Jurassic Park comes to mind "you were so busy trying to figure out if you could do it that you never stopped to think if you should'
...Why would it be? The Bullmastiff had Bulldog crossed in with the Mastiff (you know, hence "Bullmastiff") to create a new breed. What does that have to do with this? Whether or not you like it, these dogs are the same breed...
on a side note the bluetick, treeing walker, running walker & english coonhound used to all be one breed (the english fox & coonhound).
S
There's your problem: Excluding dual registered dogs. But Amstaffs have nearly always been able to BE dual registered as APBTs (and again, UKC has always considered them to be the same breed, until this past year or so, and THAT was actually caused by the American Bullies, NOT the Amstaff itself), and the waters are still too "muddy" to draw a line. Even more muddy if you consider that APBTs are often so tightly linebred...or simply bred differently from other APBTs...that the same argument of "relation" could be attributed to them vs. other APBTs or foreign-bred APBTs.
If we're going to rely on "if people would just breed the dogs to the original standard" in terms of making dogs that at least physically appear like they belong in the box, then how would these two dogs be the same "breed" as this black bitch, considering that they're completely differing structurally, and completely differing in breeding?
What about this one?
If we're going to rely on "if people would just breed the dogs to the original standard" in terms of making dogs that at least physically appear like they belong in the box, then how would these two dogs be the same "breed" as this black bitch, considering that they're completely differing structurally, and completely differing in breeding?
What about this one?
S
Wait I've got more... Two gamebred dogs, one ADBA showbred dog, all APBTs? Why or why not?
ETA: Let's muddy the water some more just for shits and giggles. If that first dog, and that last dog, are both APBTs, explain to me please how this dual registered dog is then NOT an APBT...
ETA: Let's muddy the water some more just for shits and giggles. If that first dog, and that last dog, are both APBTs, explain to me please how this dual registered dog is then NOT an APBT...
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This is a hard one ONLY because I have been at shows showing my dogs and seen dogs like the two above win first place where as I would choosed the bottem dog based on....posture??? Plus he is very handsome. But the two above are adorable, minus the splayed toes and poor posture.
Im not a judge-pry a good thing.
But the two top ones are what I have seen to be game bred with my own eyes and experience. And to me, yes, they are all APBT, just a difference in being bred for different purposes.
Im not a judge-pry a good thing.
But the two top ones are what I have seen to be game bred with my own eyes and experience. And to me, yes, they are all APBT, just a difference in being bred for different purposes.
Not the same thing at ALL. Humans have the ability to think ahead, to understand the consequences of what they are getting themselves into--they have the ability to make an informed decision. Dogs don't-they act in the moment and act on what they feel and on instict. In addition, most service members at least 18 when they enlist so their parents can't really stop them, I'm sure there are more than a few that would if they could.
My lab enjoys eating socks and underwear. By this logic, who am I to stop him? I mean sure, he could die, but at least he'll die doing what he loves and if I put a pile of laundry in front of him, it's his CHOICE whether or not to ingest said laundry.....
My lab enjoys eating socks and underwear. By this logic, who am I to stop him? I mean sure, he could die, but at least he'll die doing what he loves and if I put a pile of laundry in front of him, it's his CHOICE whether or not to ingest said laundry.....