On leash socialization video for Dekka and who ever wants to peek!

[dr2little]

This is really short and PLEASE excuse my voice and kackle...the Tosa was 'talking' today and he always makes me giggle. Roo Roo Rooooooooooo!

It was graduation today for 52 pups and I was SWAMPED so I was only able to get this short clip. I'll get some better ones when I start my next sessions in the next few weeks.

 

[Dekka]

Ahhh thanks!! I see we have different definitions of socialization in puppy classes! Good looking group of dogs there and happy looking people!

 

[dr2little]

Ahhh thanks!! I see we have different definitions of socialization in puppy classes! Good looking group of dogs there and happy looking people!

What's your definition?

 

[corgipower]

Somehow, it's not what I had pictured.

Thanks for posting it!!

 

[Dekka]

I do the Ian Dunbar type thing where puppies learn more 'dog' .. for people who don't have friends with dogs. (we have no off leash parks here.. for better or for worse)

I actually started that after going to one of his seminars and picking up the puppy class kit.

 

[dr2little]

I thought you were the one Dekka who wanted to see how I did this in the class without the leashes getting all tangled. Maybe I'm mixing you up with someone else.

This is just about teaching owners how to allow a polite greeting without so much intervention. These periods are short and mixed in with obvious structure both on leash and off.

It's amazing how these short little room greeting help every dog to completely settle. They get it out of their systems without overwhelming anyone or being overwhelmed.

 

[dr2little]

Somehow, it's not what I had pictured.

Thanks for posting it!!

What had you pictured?

 

[Dekka]

No it was me. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how you could socialize (which to me means run play bite etc ) on leash

That is why I said our definitions are not the same. I was going by the "Ian Dunbar" def lol for lack of a better term.

 

[bubbatd]

I love to see this type of thing ! Kudos to those who attended !

 

[corgipower]

What had you pictured?

TBH, I don't remember. I think I pictured something more structured - like one-on-one greetings.

 

[dr2little]

No it was me. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how you could socialize (which to me means run play bite etc ) on leash

That is why I said our definitions are not the same. I was going by the "Ian Dunbar" def lol for lack of a better term.

Gotcha. There is that too but without the risk associated with doing this in a larger group.

There is a little Shelti in class for example who came in with her tail tucked the first class. I'm going to look back but I believe that she's in the first video, completely relaxed, wandering around and socializing the way that life allows in the real world..outside of puppy class.

Here she is with a boxer (koda), a dog that she was terrified of. This would never have happened for her with socialization off leash. The first dog to approach her too quickly could likely have ruined her ability to feel safe...their windows for acceptance of social safety can be awfully tight.

Lilly (Sheltie) was the one to initiate play. I grabbed my camera too late but they had both been on their backs, heads together...smootching.

I used to see Ian's point, but like you said...how many times is this repeated in real life? 95% of all social experiences are on leash for dogs in todays world.

 

[dr2little]

TBH, I don't remember. I think I pictured something more structured - like one-on-one greetings.

Yes, that's an important point and they were absolutely more structured and one-on-one on the first and second classes. This was taken today on a break...class 6, graduation.

 

[corgipower]

Well, post more videos, woman!!

In fact, we should just send a camera crew to follow you around for a couple months, kthnx.

 

[Dekka]

Thats why we do both. And we don't let dogs overwhelm each other.

We do the group play divided into as many groups as needed (usually two)

Them when they are walking on leash we do more formal stuff. So they learn they can't zoomy play on leash.

I can honestly say we haven't had issues and they uber shy pups have always joined in the play whole heartedly after a couple of classes. I can see how it can backfire if you don't separate or have enough staff for the class size.

To me it is real life as pups still need to learn pup stuff. Its like leaving pups with mom and littermates for much longer. But not everyone can and will do that. The group play allows them to learn more about dog language and bite inhibition. It is also a marvellously distracting environment and a wonderful reward.

I wish I had vids of our classes. It was awesome to see a group of 6-8 puppies all playing and have them all break off as soon as their owners called them.

 

[dr2little]

I know what you mean Dekka. I used to use the Dunbar play, recall, collar grab method as well and did it with small groups. I often have a student with me and it still wasn't enough to prevent 'accidents'.
I just found that when there were problems...and there were, it was often too late for shy pups as well as too much practice for the overly bold pups.

I absolutely do agree with allowing puppies to play much more exuberantly and that does happen in class to, this was only a short clip and of the entire group at once. I just don't ever believe that anyone, me included, can control interaction nearly as effectively off leash even with groups as small as 4-6.

I wish that I could find Jean Donaldsons article. I know that she and Ian butt heads but I really agree much more strongly with her views. Jean has not been doing off leash play in class for several years either for the same reasons.

I have to add that the 'BY ME' command is taught and practiced in class as are many other on leash exercises and they are better, not worse because of the social experiences allowed periodically on leash. Structure is very important but so is the ability for pups to learn to have relaxed interaction on leash.

 

[dr2little]

Here's the clip that I was referring to with Lilly, the very timid sheltie who came to class stiff as a board and tail so far tucked that she looked docked. You can see Lilly 'hold her breath' for a moment at the end of the video even having a few dogs move a little too quickly. You can imagine what it would do to her if one of the labs or other more overtly playful dogs slammed into her (very normal and very typical puppy off leash play) before anyone could be quick enough to stop it.
Lilly goes on to have a great rest of the class because she felt that she was safe. The little boxer 'flirty' period happened at the end of the class.

Little Sadie, the yorkie...totally enjoyed the class never feeling like she was about to be squished. The lab pups...loved being able to say hello to everyone and never felt inhibited.

Everyone in this class is also off leash at one time or another for recalls, Emergency Recalls, stays, leave its..and many other commands.

 

[Barb04]

Liked that there were big & small dogs in the same class. When I first got Max, the class we wanted to go to wouldn't accept him because he was too big of a puppy at 11 weeks old.

 

[dr2little]

Me too Barb. I never segregate my puppy classes. Every dog needs to know that both small and big dogs exist. Far too many dogs freak out when they see something they're unfamiliar with.
I also have people wear big hats, sunglasses, bring umberellas, skateboards....you name it, and we try to make it 'normal' to see.

You should have see Amos (and heard him) when he first laid eyes on Sophie. I thought he'd have a heart attack. Poor boy lead such a sheltered life for the first 18 months.

 

[Dekka]

Me too Barb. I never segregate my puppy classes. Every dog needs to know that both small and big dogs exist. Far too many dogs freak out when they see something they're unfamiliar with.
I also have people wear big hats, sunglasses, bring umberellas, skateboards....you name it, and we try to make it 'normal' to see.

I do that too. And I give the families checklists. They have all sorts of crazy things on the checklist (people in wheel chairs, people with lots of facial hair, very short person (but not a child), very tall person, person with very deep voice, person in uniform etc etc. They are to tell the person they are socializing the puppy and ask if the person will ask the pup to sit (or what ever behaviour the pup is comfortable doing) and give a treat.

The family with the most check marks gets an extra prize at the end of the classes.

I can't understand why someone wouldn't take in a larger dog. Or keep all the puppies segregated. We would start out with groups and then slowly amalgamate them. And they still did all the on leash stuff together right from the beginning.

 

[dr2little]

I do that too. And I give the families checklists. They have all sorts of crazy things on the checklist (people in wheel chairs, people with lots of facial hair, very short person (but not a child), very tall person, person with very deep voice, person in uniform etc etc. They are to tell the person they are socializing the puppy and ask if the person will ask the pup to sit (or what ever behaviour the pup is comfortable doing) and give a treat.

The family with the most check marks gets an extra prize at the end of the classes.

I can't understand why someone wouldn't take in a larger dog. Or keep all the puppies segregated. We would start out with groups and then slowly amalgamate them. And they still did all the on leash stuff together right from the beginning.

I love this kind of thing. People really do enjoy being involved (and reinforced) for things too. I had a Valentine theme for grad yesterday with a few fun, dog related questions. In each class, the person thjat answered the most questions correctly, won a box of Valentine chocolates. When there were two people, which happened in two of my classes yesterday:yikes:, their dogs competed in a showdown of puppy pushups. So many giggles and just a lot of fun!