"Michael Moore Hates America"

[blue]

I know there are many here that agree with MM's measage, I can only hope they disagree, even a little, with his delivery. Im trying to find the review/interview of Sicko in which he described the movie as his most honest and mature work to date. Mature maybe but, I still dont have the movie, from some reviews and break downs he seems less decietfull but not entirely honest by way of omission at best.

For those of you with an open mind, I Link to you "Michael Moore Hates America", brought to you free to view at your leasure on Youtube.

Part 1.

Part 2.

Part 3.

Part 4.

Part 5.

Part 6.

Part 7.

Part 8.

Part 9.

Part 10.

For something realy tasteless and just plane wrong The Aristocrats.

 

[whatszmatter]

I take MM for what he's worth. he does bend and omit things to make his view appear stronger for the movie, but there is some truth to what he's saying. Thankfully I sort thru it along with all the other stuff I've seen, heard read, etc and form my own opinion.

I haven't seen Sicko yet. I'd like to, its something that is very impt to me. I have a feeling that he takes a different angle than I do, but I'd still like to see it for the "corruption" side of things. There have been so many instances where researchers are found to have made up complete "studies" and people, and when its found out, they get fired from that job and promoted to heads of other companies, presumably because they don't have a problem lying and cheating to make the company money.

I could go on all day about that stuff, but people need to find it and see how deep this stuff really goes on their own, info from ONE source is never a good idea.

I think where he and I would differ on "sicko" is that I'm not sure if socialized medicine is the way to go. Maybe for accidents, car, fires, etc, but otherwise keep it private. I also think that Americans need to take on much more responsibility for their own health. I have a feeling he'll really play the victim card in the movie and that all americans are just great, but just don't have the money to have health care, when in reality, if they learned to control their emotions and thoughts a little, not maintain such crappy relationships, get out and enjoy life a bit, MOVE their bodies some more and get out of starbucks and McD's we'd all see a drastic decrease in the amount of money spent on so called "health care" in this country.

but thanks for the links, I haven't seen this one either, i'll have to check it out, althought it might take me a couple days.

 

[Amstaffer]

I thought the MMHA video was kinda funny, it mirrors the MM style and I guess imitation is the best form of flattery.

I think if MM really "Hated" America he would quietly move to France (ala Johnny Depp)

I think MM loves his country more than most Americans. He is trying to change our country to be better for the poor and middle class. It just amazes me how many people that are poor and middle class that are totally brain washed by the talking points of the ultra rich who continue to milk every last drop of profit out of them.

I think the person who really hates America is the person who doesn't vote or votes for representatives who continue to install programs that harm the collective good of all or sell their services to the highest bidder..

MM in Sicko, has lots of great things to say about Americans and American culture; he just has lots of bad things to say about HMOs and the politicians they have purchased.

To criticize ultra greedy corporations and dirty politicians is not to criticize America. Is that really what America is?

Consider this....if your mother is a smoker and you tell her smoking is wrong and she should be more like the lady next door who doesn't smoke....does that mean you hate your mother or do you really love your mother?

If we are silent and allow the greedy to continue to rape our country they I think it is "we" who hate America.

Universal health care will come eventually, it is the only logical way to do things. The question is how many people have to die before we wake up?

We have government police, military (kinda..Military Industrial complex...that is a whole 'nother thread) fire fighters, schools, libraries, museums, garbage, sewer ... why is it so wrong or crazy to have Non-profit health care. Do you really want greedy people deciding what care you get when your life is on the line? It is amazing how well it works in the rest of the 1st world.

 

[Puckstop31]

why is it so wrong or crazy to have Non-profit health care.

If you take the profit out of health care, where is the motivation to innovate? Where does the money come from to do research into new cures and medicines? The Government? Do you REALLY want to pay the kind of taxes it would take to have "non-profit" health care? I have worked my ass off in my life to get where I am, I will be damned if I let the government take what I have from me to give it to people who have not worked for it.

Perhaps our current system is not totally "fair", but who ever said life was fair? We are guaranteed PURSUIT of happiness, not happiness itself.

I'd rather be free than "safe".

Do you really want greedy people deciding what care you get when your life is on the line?

As opposed to some government agency? If those are my choices, yes i'll take the greedy guy. Do you really think that with non-profit health care EVERYBODY will be treated equally?

It is amazing how well it works in the rest of the 1st world.

Does it now? My wifes grandmother has been waiting for years for a hip replacement in Canada. Of course they won't say it, but she feels she is simply being swept aside because the cost of the surgery is not worth it for a person her age.

I could go on and on and on... ANY socialism is never a good thing. History shows it time and time again.

Freedom first. Government control LAST.

 

[Amstaffer]

If you take the profit out of health care, where is the motivation to innovate? Where does the money come from to do research into new cures and medicines?

Helping people maybe? Why do we have Police who try their best? Why do firefighters risk their lives? Why are teachers the lowest paid people who have professional licenses but yet dedicate their lives to children (many of who don't want to be in school)?

As opposed to some government agency? If those are my choices, yes i'll take the greedy guy. Do you really think that with non-profit health care EVERYBODY will be treated equally?

Well I hope there never is a time in your life where someone weighs their profit vs your life. Is universal health care perfect? of course not but it is a lot better than what we have now.

Does it now? My wifes grandmother has been waiting for years for a hip replacement in Canada. Of course they won't say it, but she feels she is simply being swept aside because the cost of the surgery is not worth it for a person her age.

Better delayed than denied...for every case of delay you name in Canada, you'll find 10 denials for life saving procedures in our system.

I could go on and on and on... ANY socialism is never a good thing. History shows it time and time again.
.

Really? Police, Fire, Education? (yes education...if you compare apples to apples public education is as good or better than private. The reason many private schools are so good is that they can pick and choose who they educate and can reject anyone who is failing)

Many "Commie" programs in Europe are very successful. Why do we have a much higher infant mortality rate? Why do we have a much higher crime rate? Why do we have a much higher murder rate?

 

[Fran27]

Do you REALLY want to pay the kind of taxes it would take to have "non-profit" health care?

Meh, I'm quite sure taxes are worse in the US than in France, and we have non-profit health care over there.

Do you really think that with non-profit health care EVERYBODY will be treated equally?

Actually... yes. Depends how it's done and the government though. In the US, I don't see that happening.

I'm not going to see the movie... the American health system infuriates me enough as it is.

 

[whatszmatter]

about the whole tax thing and innovations, our tax dollars are given to big pharma to "research" and when they develope all these next new "wonder" drugs, they are allowed to patent it and rape the hell out of the AMerican people, who's hard earned tax dollars paid for its development in the first place.

Does anyone ever follow up on all the amazing next new greatest medical miracle that they have press releases on? Its funny that next to none ever materialize into anything, yet the public buys the "image" that they sell, and fork over boatloads of cash for a pipe dream.

 

[Amstaffer]

about the whole tax thing and innovations, our tax dollars are given to big pharma to "research" and when they develope all these next new "wonder" drugs, they are allowed to patent it and rape the hell out of the AMerican people, who's hard earned tax dollars paid for its development in the first place.

Does anyone ever follow up on all the amazing next new greatest medical miracle that they have press releases on? Its funny that next to none ever materialize into anything, yet the public buys the "image" that they sell, and fork over boatloads of cash for a pipe dream.

Great post....I always laugh when poor or middle class conservatives throw out phrases like...."Freedom and choice, or Free Market or no more taxes"

What they don't realize is that we don't choose anything, your HMO makes your choices, the government prevents competition (Federal Gov't blocks drugs to be imported from other countries like Canada.) and lots of our taxes go to support big business, including HMOs.

People always worry about "Welfare", what people don't realize is that the USA gov't gave more to Oil companies (alone...doesn't include other businesses) than all the money spend on welfare in the USA. Why is welfare for single mothers so wrong (I do believe everyone should work for money) and welfare for oil companies and "Free Enterprise"?

 

[Amstaffer]

Does anyone ever follow up on all the amazing next new greatest medical miracle that they have press releases on? Its funny that next to none ever materialize into anything, yet the public buys the "image" that they sell, and fork over boatloads of cash for a pipe dream.

Had to quote you one more time . Yes and many great advances that do work come from Sweden...oops how is that possible? Aren't they Commie Socialists?

 

[Buckshot]

I wish this socialist society will hurry up and get here so I can quit working and get in some much over due fishing. I look forward to going to the doctor anytime I get a sniffle. As it is now I never go unless I think I have an issue worth paying my hard earned cash for. I just hope that the waiting rooms arent full of people like me. I would rather do away with the insurance and pay the doctor directly. If the doctor had to keep enough business to survive he may not cost 75 bucks an hour because someone else might charge 70.

As it is now with the insurance situation, people dont directly see the money going out of their pocket so it is ok. Thats the way it is with taxes, yet if I reached into your pocket and took the money for ammunition (which I think is a good cause) you would be mad. Perhaps even willing to have me jailed or worse. Since the mass of people take your money directly from your earnings before you see it, it is easier to swallow. I am curious how much each of you would be willing to give for the Iraq war, Corporate welfare, drug war, foriegn aid, domestic welfare, WIC, public education etc. I wish you folks would be ok with letting me keep my earnings to spend as I wish and I would like for you to be able to do the same. If you like public education, I would love to see you spend all of what you are paying in taxes now to go to it, if thats what you want. You will never convince me that it is right for John to work hard to support Jane, who he doesnt know, and who doesnt work. I dont want your profits and I dont want your debt, in a free country I will deal with my own, either way.

 

[Amstaffer]

I dont want your profits and I dont want your debt, in a free country I will deal with my own, either way.

This "me and me only" philosophy is penny smart and dollar foolish. Society improves for everyone if we work together and help each other. The Standard of living is a community thing not a personal thing.

The secret to taxes is to elect officials that use the money wisely and in fashion that works for the good of all.....Infrastructure social and structural.

We are social creatures and have become the most successful creature on the planet because we work together, not because we play the proverbial "King of the Hill" with life.

Countries that have the Dog eat Dog philosophy are not much fun to live in...just check out the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

 

[Buckshot]

This "me and me only" philosophy is penny smart and dollar foolish. Society improves for everyone if we work together and help each other.

What do you mean ME only? I would like to keep my money to help out my family instead of them getting it from the public pot. I can promise you my sister would not have been on welfare for the last 20 years and I can promise you that her kids wont be for the next 20, that is not dollar foolish.

Society may improve for some, but some of us dont think this over populated society and all of its ills are better than a free society. I know you are a fan of public education and I know there are programs that you arent a fan of. Wouldnt you rather donate the money that is being taken out of your earnings to programs that you dislike and have the choice of where to put that money?

 

[Amstaffer]

What do you mean ME only? I would like to keep my money to help out my family instead of them getting it from the public pot. I can promise you my sister would not have been on welfare for the last 20 years and I can promise you that her kids wont be for the next 20, that is not dollar foolish.

ME=my wants and needs, which would include your family. You life is better when the lives of everyone is better. Example less poverty means less crime.

Society may improve for some, but some of us dont think this over populated society and all of its ills are better than a free society. I know you are a fan of public education and I know there are programs that you arent a fan of. Wouldnt you rather donate the money that is being taken out of your earnings to programs that you dislike and have the choice of where to put that money?

I agree this world is overpopulated....no doubt.

on the rest...I don't think that each tax payer should be picking and choose where each of his/her dollars go. That would be chaos and impractical. I think the best option is to elect officials to do their jobs and do what is right for the public and those who don't.....fire or indict them!

 

[Buckshot]

ME=my wants and needs, which would include your family. You life is better when the lives of everyone is better. Example less poverty means less crime.

That is your opinion. Most people that I know would not agree that it is right to take from one persons earnings to give to another person who doesnt earn or has made bad choices.

I agree this world is overpopulated....no doubt..

So then why in the world would you want to make it possible for more people to raise kids and live longer?

on the rest...I don't think that each tax payer should be picking and choose where each of his/her dollars go. That would be chaos and impractical. I think the best option is to elect officials to do their jobs and do what is right for the public and those who don't.....fire or indict them!

That is failing miserably.

 

[ACooper]

That is your opinion. Most people that I know would not agree that it is right to take from one persons earnings to give to another person who doesnt earn or has made bad choices.

:hail: :hail: :hail:

It ticks me off to no end to see HEALTHY, CAPABLE people sitting on their butts while hard working people feed and clothe them. That particular system was put in place for good reasons.........and it has been twisted into something hidious like most other government run programs.

 

[jess2416]

Sorry, but if its not my family or one of my good friends that have happen to run into hard times, I LIKE being selfish....

 

[blue]

MMHA was done in the same style of "Roger and Me" and it ended the same way. It turns out imitation may well be a true form of flattery. The only thing I can that MM loves about America is that he stands to take in 50% of the gross profits of "Sicko", $4.5 million the openning weekend. On top of that what other country in the world would let him make his movies? MM wants you to think he is an average man, why do you think he dresses like he does. He is a showman on par with P.T. Barnum, his bank account is as well. He does an anti gun movie yet he will hire an armed guard. If he does a movie on public education will he mention his stepchild went to a private school?

Meh, I'm quite sure taxes are worse in the US than in France, and we have non-profit health care over there.

I cant think of one state or city in the US that has a 19.6% sales tax, I dont want to know what the French payroll taxes, or income taxes are.

Again I know there are people who like the measage. Does anybody here beleave MM doesnt get the best medical care available, or that he has to wait for it?

 

[ToscasMom]

If you take the profit out of health care, where is the motivation to innovate?

Currently, life and death situations are decided by health insurers. They answer to their stockholders. Do you really think life and death and health should be associated with profits?

Where does the money come from to do research into new cures and medicines? The Government?

the government is already subsidizing pharmaceutical companies to innovate and instead of being grateful, they bilk the public some more by charging more for their meds than other countries who buy their meds have to charge. There are some meds that are SO expensive that people cannot afford to use them. The pharmaceutical industry is one of the biggest taxpayer ripoff scandals going. Also, stock holder oriented of course.

Do you REALLY want to pay the kind of taxes it would take to have "non-profit" health care?

See above answers. The only thing removed from the equation is the bottom line for stockholders. Instead, profits are filtered back into the insurance system. The health of America will come before profit for a change. Life and death should never ever be tied to a profit. People die for profit. How moral is that exactly?

I have worked my ass off in my life to get where I am, I will be damned if I let the government take what I have from me to give it to people who have not worked for it.

I agree with you on so many levels. However, when it comes to health care for WORKING middle class families who canNOT afford THOUSANDS of dollars a month for health insurance for their families, I draw the line. Puck, the poor ALREADY get free health care on the taxes we already pay. It's the WORKING class people who are getting shafted here. They are the fifty million uninsured people in America not the lazy bastages who won't go to work and whom I am as sick of as you are of supporting.

Ok one more Edit and I'll be good. The problem here is going to get MUCH bigger as more working Americans find out that their employers will NOT be paying for health insurance any longer. One by one, those of you who don't realize what it costs to insure you and your families will get it.

 

[ACooper]

The problem here is going to get MUCH bigger as more working Americans find out that their employers will NOT be paying for health insurance any longer. One by one, those of you who don't realize what it costs to insure you and your families will get it.

I already see it coming, and it scares the crap out of me! Our company has already started 'eliminating' full time employees.........they are switching everthing to part time which means NO BENEFITS, period. This has not affected "office" just the people out actually making the product to keep the company going.

I myself am part time office by choice........Kevin is in upper level and has all the coverage we need, but how long until that is gone too??

 

[ToscasMom]

I already see it coming, and it scares the crap out of me! Our company has already started 'eliminating' full time employees.........they are switching everthing to part time which means NO BENEFITS, period. This has not affected "office" just the people out actually making the product to keep the company going.

I myself am part time office by choice........Kevin is in upper level and has all the coverage we need, but how long until that is gone too??

When that happens, you will become one of the ranks of the nearly fifty million WORKING Americans who are uninsured. And that's my point. You pay your taxes to give free health care to the poor and in many cases, to the downright lazy and to people who make bad decisions. But by the same token you can NOT afford to insure yourself if your employer can't handle the OUTRAGEOUS premiums any longer. How many things can you find wrong with this picture???????? I already told you that I personally pay $527 per month to keep myself insured. Thank GOD I can come up with that kind of money. But I have no kids to insure. You take that price and mulitply it by the number of kids you have. And that is a GROUP rate. I am telling you that this country is going to learn all of this the hard way in the very near future. Better we are proactive (a word I hate since it was invented by Jack Welch) and pre-empt this mess than to have our inept GOVERNMENT end up dealing with it. Always, we are in reactive mode. That is what P'sses me off about this country. They need a telephone pole on their heads before they get it. It's always, "Oh well, I'm ok, so screw everybody else"......until.....