Is there a better way of grooming?

[Lolly77]

Hi All,

My medium sized long haired terrier Sophie needs her hair cut once a year as it gets too long and tangled.
She is very nervous around strangers and has to get sedated when getting cut as she goes crazy and can get vicious. She is getting too old now to be sedated but she really needs her coat cut, she will not let any of us come near her with a scissors never mind an electric shearers. Is there anything in the shape of a brush that would brush through her coat and cut as it brushes her? So she would not realise she is being cut??

Putting a mussel on her, holding her down etc will not work ; the only way we will get her cut this summer is if we trick her!

I’d really appreciate any comments ideas on this websites where I can buy such a device (!), thanks in advance. ~ Lolly

 

[duncan15]

first of all, mos to f the dogs i have groomed who absolutly hated to thwe point you are describing hated it b/c they were not predisposed to it as a puppy, and were not regularly done. you didnt say the exact age so i will guess your dog is about 10 since you said its getting older. that means in his entire life time it has been groomed 10 times. most dogs are done more than that in the first year of their lives. you can get away with not getting a dog professionally groomed if it is a shorthaired dog, which yours isnt. you are the dog owner who lets the dog get completely matted then gets one shave down a year, which is probably one of the most evasive things you can do to a dog in grooming. shaving down a matted dog is not fun for groomers or dogs. especially when a dog is not used to it.

the secoind your dog starting displaying these agressive signs, you should have done something then. you should have desensitised him to brushing at home, and at the very least start taking him to groom shops once a month (if not for bathing, then just to see the shop is not a bad place). you made the problem worse by avoiding it.

yes there are some dematting tools that have sharp edges that cut through matts. however none of these tools will just glide through. your dog will know what you are doing. there arent very many inabrasive way to demat a dog, especially when the owners let the hair grow all year and dont brush it and it gets matted.

im sorry if i sound rude, but people just dont understand that dogs need to be socialized in grooming as well as with people and everything else. if you dont start grooming as a young pup, and getting them used to a salon setting, you pretty much setting yourself up for a dog that will be a problem later on. a lot of people get rescues and older dogsthat hate grooming, but the ones that follow my advice and come in for just a 15 min brushout or just a quik hello every other week, have shown great improvement in what they will allow us to do. a dog with a long coat should not be done once a year and allowed to get matted.

 

[Lolly77]

Ok well that does not help my situation one bit, in my (and my dog's defence) she is a nervous wreck because she is a rescued dog, please do not lecture me about not caring for my dog because I most certainly do, she is 8 this year and yes we only cut her once a year - firstly it costs €140 to get done so popping down to the groomer every other week is not an option, and second she was abused as a pup and is extremely nervous - we can brush her but not so far as detangling her as once we meet a knot she goes into defence mode.

If anyone else has any actual advice please do not hesitate to let me know.

 

[simplymisty]

I'm a single mom with 3 very large dogs. One of whom is a dog who was abused. She would freak going to the groomers but I would just walk her around the store or just get her nails done until we worked up to the groom. She responded well to baby steps and the groomer was willing to work with me on it so it helped that they took it slow also.

Here's my advice:

Take her to a pet store or grooming salon and let her just walk around and check it out. Maybe even do the standard brush out or get her nails done.

Work up to the groom that you want done.

It didn't state where you live. If you're in IL close to Aurora I have a groomer you can call.

As for the cost of the groom. Here's why I made the comment about being a single mom. Before I got any of my 3 dogs and spend the money to buy or adopt them, I had to figure in ALL costs and if I could give the dog the proper care. That includes but isn't limited to:

A good quality dog food, time, vet bills, grooming - if it's a dog that has to be groomed and you can't do it yourself then you really have to figure that cost into getting a dog.

When the dogs get knotted up and have to be shaved down it's not pleasant for the dog, just like long nails, etc.

Just my .02 for anyone who is thinking about getting a dog, maybe you should call to see if it needs regular grooms and what those run and how often you would need to bring the dog in.

 

[Herschel]

Wow. I don't read the grooming forum that often but I really can't believe the things I'm seeing here.

Lolly, if you're even still reading this thread, I'm sorry for the way that people have come off. If this was a puppymill dog that you neglected because you "forgot" or something like that, I could understand the criticism.

People--she rescued this dog after it was badly abused. Even if she feeds Pedigree or Ol' Roy, that's an improvement over being in an abusive home. Who do you think you are for lecturing her about proper dog ownership? She saved this dog!

As far as grooming goes, I don't know of any tool that would trick your dog like that. Have you tried calling as many groomers as you can and explaining the situation? Some groomers are experienced in dealing with dogs such as yours.

Is there anyway that you could hold her down while constantly feeding her extremely high value treats?

 

[Lolly77]

Thank you for the Advice simplymisty, I live in Ireland and unfortunately dog grooming is not as popular here, the choice is limited to the vet or a local lady who just took up dog grooming and would not be trained and Sophie has been barred from there because she bit her nose

Herschel I appreciate your comments I in no way have neglected my dog she is really well looked after she is a member of our family, she was badly abused as a pup and still bears those scars, the last thing we want to do is upset her and I guess tugging her knots out just reminds her of when she was abused.

I will keep searching, has anyone used or know what the Mars Coat King Blade is? Its on ebay and sounds like what I am looking for..?

 

[duncan15]

i already apoligized is i sounded rude, so i wont get into that.

i have, as stated before, seen and done many dogs that were abused, some severly, some not so much. the only way these dogs got better was by going to the salon more. of course the dog doesnt like it: it has been abused, and the problem has been avoided. i am in no way saying you are abusing or neglecting your dog right now. many people let dogs get matted and do a once a year shave, but it doesnt mean it is an ideal situation for a dog. the best way to help a dog like this is to find one good groomer that isnt afraid, and have them work with them, and build up trust.

it sort of seems from your posts that there isnt much to be done. there arent any groomers you like in the area, your dog cant be sedated, and the dog wont let you do it. i have no idea what the tool is you are referring to, but i know as a groomer that there arent any tools that will magically take off a matt without the dog knowing. why cant the dog be muzzled?

 

[Giny]

I will keep searching, has anyone used or know what the Mars Coat King Blade is? Its on ebay and sounds like what I am looking for..?

I have my own salon for a few years and have been grooming for almost 20 years. I have a few of these kinds of rakes, different sizes and blade length but if your dog reacts when pulling on her fur then she'll react to this because in order to remove the mats you need to tug on the coat a bit with this product.

Honestly I've already tried to groom dogs like yours, if she's as bad as I think she is, and sadly I had to tell the clients I couldn't risk grooming them again. It's not worth damaging my hands, the tools I need to work with, in order to groom these dogs and I think you seem quite understanding with that. The only other option with these dogs was for them to be sedated at the vets and completely stripped down while they are under anesthesia.

I wish I could tell you that there was a magic pill or tool to solve your problem but there isn't. If you can't muzzle, if you can't even brush the dog yourself without the fear of getting bit then I suggest you speak to your vet about what I've just mentioned.

And also most of the dogs that come in to my shop are nervous and afraid but are able to adjust to the circumstance fairly well. The ones that can’t and do end up biting because of low tolerance to pain from brushing, is usually because of a dominance issue not fear. That's the way I see it, most of them come from a family that doesn't seem to set proper boundaries in there lives. You can use the excuse that she was abused in the past but if you don't try to solve that problem now, and by the way she's never too old to learn, then she'll never get better. Desensitizing her and teaching her that her behavior is unacceptable would be a far better asset to both you and your dog then trying to find the magic solution in grooming her. A lot of my best clients are dogs that come from an abusive past, including one of my dogs who was adopted out at 6 years of age.

 

[duncan15]

well said giny. i have more problems with dogs owned by elderly people who are too old too properly train so their dog so gets away with everything, than i do with dogs that have been abused.

 

[squirtsmom]

Good posts Giny, well done.

 

[simplymisty]

Lolly,

I talked to my groomer and of course I didn't write it down but there are drops out there that you can put in your dogs mouth or water for stress and it's suppose to calm them down. She actually used it on my little one the first time she did a full groom just to help her. It didn't put her out at all, it just helped to calm her down.

She actually gave me the drops a couple of months ago after she did my dog and had me give them to another foster home who wanted her dog groomed but it would freak and attack the groomers. This was an older dog and I don't know what issues her dog had.

She emailed me the other day and told me that they worked for her dog. She gave the dog some drops about 1/2 - 1 hour before taking it to the groomer and the dog didn't go off the deep end like normal.

Sorry I didn't write down what it was called but maybe there are groomers here that might know what this is???? Maybe you can even do a search? She's out of town then I'm out of town but if you haven't found it when I get back then I'll call her to get the exact name but it won't be until after July 9th.

Good Luck - hopefully this will help to train the dog with the groomers.

 

[Lolly77]

success!!

Thank you for your posts. I guess I should have addressed the problem sooner and yes not grooming her was the easier option than upsetting her,
I know now this made problem worse rather than facing up to it.

As Giny said she is never too old to learn and now it is time we faced up to it, but its such a problem that we would need some way of calming her, I will look up these drops and if in the mean time simplymisty you get the name of them can you post it - thank you!

 

[Giny]

I'm so happy to hear that you are going to work with her in order to make grooming a more pleasurable experience not only for her but for you too.

By trying to trick her into getting her groom might work for her at that time but she's now learnt the new trick and it will make next time a much difficult situation. Not only that but it also will take away the trust she has in you.

I don't know if you ever heard of NILIF. Click it and read it, it will help define to Sophie where she stands in your household. We often give the wrong signals to dogs unintentionally that leads them to think they are in charge and with that comes the bad behaviors. She doesn't see it as bad behavior, she thinks she's correcting you. I know that some of these probably sound like big changes in both of your lives but if you stick with it you'll be amazed how well it works. It helped me out immensely with my dogs.

Next thing I'd do is condition your dog into grooming without acutely grooming her for a while. Even if it means she might look a mess for the time being. Before investing in any grooming tool the most important one in my book is a grooming table with grooming arm and noose. It brings the dog up to your level and will often help calm them down and if you can't find one around your area then you can try making a makeshift one.

I wouldn't groom her on the table right away, just let her get accustom to it. Every day do some training exercises while she's on it. Get her favorite treat and make her sit, lay down, shake paw while she's on the table. Do this for about 5 to 10 minutes a day, everyday, for a few weeks. It might sound tedious but eventually it will desensitize her from the table….

I have a client that’s coming in a few minutes so I’ll have to continue this later.

 

[Lolly77]

success!!

I just wanted to let ye know we are getting on so well training Sophie in on grooming - so well infact that she now sits out on the step (no lead needed to restrain her) and allows me to brush and cut, its a long process she is a but uneven at the minute but most of the tangled hair has been removed. Thank you all for your advice it really helped!! I took your advice Giny and am also training her to be the pet rather than the protector. I feel she trusts me much more now and she has become more obedient.

I have used a human head shave / sheers on her, this is fine but I was just wondering would I be better investing in a doggie grooming sheerer, is there a difference in the blades? She is a medium hair length terrier.

We have made so much progress since my last post I'm just so proud of her and cant believe I left it this long to tackle the problem.

 

[beth2]

Im a groomer. I hope I can help. mars coat kings are exactly what I would recommend. they are coat rakes that you can use like a brush but they strip away under coat and can cut the length of the coat as well. They are sharp though so you need to be careful and watch that you dont thin out an area of coat so much that she is bald. A furminator is another option... works the same but not as aggressively.
I dont know which coat king size to recommend as I dont know what coat type your dog has. the more blades the thinner the coat type like terriers, spaniels. the ones with less blades are recommended for thick coats like huskies, collies etc if I remember right.
good luck.

 

[superdiver]

From my limited experience I have found that pets and owners are pretty good reflections of each other...have you guys noticed that as well?

 

[Lolly77]

Hi Superdiver, if that is an attempt at an insult then keep your "limited experience" views to yourself.
I could elaborate but I wont bother.

 

[duncan15]

instead of taking offense to the top post lolly, you can take some advice from it. i am in no way saying you do this, i have never seen you with your dog. but a lot of people who take a dog to a salon and are all upset about it (ie, "my poor baby, im so sorry to do this to you", or "im so worried about leaving my baby!") do not realize that all they are doing is transferring their negative energy to the dog, making the dog more upset than the grooming itself. it is fact amoung most groomers that babied dogs are the most ill-behaved ones.

i hope everything is going well with the grooming, and i hope you dont take advice from the person who told you to get a furminaor or that rake, they wont magicaly take hair off without the dog knowing it

 

[verderben]

Thank you for the Advice simplymisty, I live in Ireland and unfortunately dog grooming is not as popular here, the choice is limited to the vet or a local lady who just took up dog grooming and would not be trained and Sophie has been barred from there because she bit her nose

Herschel I appreciate your comments I in no way have neglected my dog she is really well looked after she is a member of our family, she was badly abused as a pup and still bears those scars, the last thing we want to do is upset her and I guess tugging her knots out just reminds her of when she was abused.

I will keep searching, has anyone used or know what the Mars Coat King Blade is? Its on ebay and sounds like what I am looking for..?

A coat king should not be used for dematting. And honestly all you are going to do if you demat the dog is **** it off. Dematting is painful. And a once a year groom dog I can imagine isnt going to brush out anyways. Get the dog shaved down and then the best advice I can give you is get her done regularly to keep her mat free. Also I imagine you are being charged so much because you only groom her once a year. I am a groomer and you better believe the idiots that refuse to groom more than once a year pay double. A once a year groom is ALOT of work so if thats all you are willing to do then expect to pay for it.

 

[beth2]

Wow there are a lot of strong opinions on this forum. Everyone has different experiences to go on regarding dematting and coat kings and in my defense Ive had good ones. I dont know the coat type of this dog...or at least I couldnt find an accurate description...a course coat king(like a 6-8 blade which is good for a collie or australian shepherd type coat, even a spaniel type coat....depends again on the thickness of the coat) can safely and gently be used to demat a dog if the matts are not tight at the skin and it does an amazing job of stripping away the dead undercoat which in turn helps deminish more matts in the future. It does not pull at the skin any harder than you pull against the matts, just like brushing...so if you run through the brushed coat gently, a layer at a time, the undercoat and matts can be removed the same...gently....
lolli, if your dog is doing well with brushing and scizzoring, great job!!!! Keep it up slowing but surely. As your dog builds up tolerance and trust with a brush out it will allow a coat king and a furminator to be used on a regular basis in the future to keep the undercoat and matting at bay. Then you and your pup will never have to be in this situation again.
Ive used this tool regularly on a collie which HATED to be brushed/dematted and he tolerated it well. He used to have to be muzzled for matts.
Every coat type requires a different strategy in dematting...it doesnt always have to be painful and a matted dog doesnt always have to be shaved....do what your dog is comfortable with and what you are comfortable with.
A good soak in a high quality dematting spray or conditioner could help too...to lubricate the coat when brushing and loosen matts and undercoat, making the dematting that much more tolerable. (but that requires a long rinsing and bath afterwards though...hard to do at home)
Lolli, wish I could help more and describe a method of dematting better for you, but its impossible without a good look at the dog and her coat.
Good luck with her and God bless you for not giving up on her!!!
fYI: coat kings and the like: the more blades it has the more coat it removes.
maybe get one course one and then one finer one for in the future to keep all that coat at bay. Furminators are perfect for that. But, they are pricey...so its up to you if you ever wanted to give it a try .
another option for cutting through matts...is a matt stripper with at least 3 or 4 serraded (SP?)blades like a steak knife. It works wonderfully to slice through tough matts that a coat king wont go through easily. I love mine. Its safer than scissors when the matts are large or close to the skin. you jsut saw through the mats....it breaks the mat apart into smaller pieces that you can then remove easier. Again, hard to say what would work best w/out seeing the coat., but just another idea.
another technique is to scizzor off half the matt so you arent getting too close the the skin then use your fingers to lossen up the coat underneath....usually the coat underneath the mat will brush out then ....saves the risk of getting too close to the skin with scizzors.
Again! God bless ya.