In regards to heartworm meds..

[Mordy]

You are going to regret this gamble if your animal comes down with heartworms. Unfortunately your decision if it is wrong, impacts your dogs health and well being and the dog doesn't even get to vote on it. I feel the same way about parents that don't get vaccines for their children and the child comes down with a very serious illness that could have easily been prevented. If I was that parent, I would never forgive myself.....

I feel very comfortable with the level of "risk" I am taking, since I understand the life cycle of heartworms and know how low the risk of infection where I live is for my dog - a level where dosing with a pesticide on a monthly basis would affect my dog worse.

My decisions weren't made ignorantly or without thorough research.

My dog is tested for heartworm twice a year, and no matter how unlikely it is, if he ever was found to be infected, the infestation would still only be at a level where treatment doesn't really involve anything but giving exactly the same drug you use for prevention.

 

[Mordy]

This is one area I don't cut corners..... proper dosage is very important as to weights.

Grammy, have you actually looked at the document on the FDA site that I linked above?

Giving less than "recommended" is not necessarily "cutting corners".

My question is "why give more than you have to to protect your dog"? It's not like these very drugs themselves are entirely harmless.

 

[elegy]

are some people not realizing that heartworm risk varies based on where you live? a dog living in florida has a much different risk than a dog living in montana, for example. why poison your dog monthly for a problem that's.... not really a problem?

 

[Bobsk8]

are some people not realizing that heartworm risk varies based on where you live? a dog living in florida has a much different risk than a dog living in montana, for example. why poison your dog monthly for a problem that's.... not really a problem?

I posted a chart a couple of weeks ago somewhere ( can't remember where) that showed a state by state count for Heartworms in 2005. There was almost no state that escaped heartworms. One person in Ohio said that he doesn't bother with Heartworm meds cause there was little risk, yet his state had over 5,000 "reported" cases of heartworms that year. That doesn't count all the dogs that died from it that were no figured into the report. With all the traveling that people do, for me it is too big a risk to not give a preventative , but that is just me.

 

[DanL]

Thanks for reminding me to give my guys their dose!

 

[Mordy]

are some people not realizing that heartworm risk varies based on where you live? a dog living in florida has a much different risk than a dog living in montana, for example. why poison your dog monthly for a problem that's.... not really a problem?

That and some people may also not realize that HW preventives aren't guaranteed to be 100% effective anyway - so owners shouldn't be complacent giving the drugs but never having a test done.

What I find the height of irresponsibility from the vet side though is scaring people into giving HW drugs year-round in areas where the climate doesn't even allow for heartworms to be a threat every month of the year. Just because you see a mosquito buzzing around on a somewhat warm fall or spring day still doesn't mean the larvae can complete their development into infective L3 stage.

From the website of the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine:

Development in the mosquito is temperature dependent, requiring approximately two weeks of temperature at or above 27C (80F). Below a threshold temperature of 14c (57F), development cannot occur, and the cycle will be halted. As a result, transmission is limited to warm months, and duration of the transmission season varies geographically.

 

[GlassOnion]

Uh, the larva is still being heated inside the mosquito. It's cyclodevelopmental if I recall correctly.

And to not treat them in the colder months is just giving the heartworms they could potentially already have time to mature and lay eggs.

You can't just say "6 months, gotcha" because there's other variables to consider, one of which is the initial level of infection.


And heart worm tests are not 100% either. If you leave one out too long it will give you a positive reading, even if the dog is negative.

That's why you ALWAYS do a blood smear if it comes up positive.

 

[Mordy]

How would the larva be "heated" inside the mosquito? A mosquito is an insect, not a mammal with a fairly constant body temperature. The information from U-Penn applies to the conditions required to allow for development of larvae from stage 1 to 3. If these conditions aren't met, there is no development.

Then the mosquito with the L3 larva actually has to bite a dog and transmit larvae, all within its short lifespan.

In order for female heartworms to produce eggs, it must be inseminated by a male. If of the infecting larvae only males or only females survive, there is no reproduction. The production of microfilariae by inseminated female worms begins approximately 6 1/2 months after infection.

This is definitely a topic that warrants thorough research by each and every single dog owner. If I lived somewhere else, with a higher risk of infection, my decision might very well be different. I also give my dog a HW preventive after returning from summer vacations in high-risk areas.

If you feel comfortable giving HW preventive on a monthly basis, whether it's really required or not, that's up to you - just as it is up to me to make decisions that may not conform with the mainstream idea of using drugs.

 

[GlassOnion]

Reproduction can occur at any time. They don't just sit around waiting for 6 months unless you're talking about from baby to adult.

And the mosquito flies close to the host's body, the heat goes up. They don't regulate their own temperature but they do spend a lot of time around mammals that heat them up indirectly.


And yes I know all about how a mommy and daddy heart worm are both required to reproduce.


All heartworm prevention does is kill the microfilarie and suppress the reproduction of the adults. It doesn't stop it entirely. So if they survive for that month, you've just given them another couple of months to develop into a potential adult form and allow them to lay more microfilaria and start the cycle over again.


The heartworm build up wont' be as fast as if you left it untreated, granted, but it's still possible.


But do as you like, it's your dog.

 

[Mordy]

GlassOnion, believe it or not, but I have completed coursework in physiology and parasitology for my certification, so I'm not just typing random nonsense here. Part of my final exam was about heartworm disease in dogs and my marker commented that I did an excellent job on it.

In order for the development of the HW larvae to take place inside the mosquito, the temperature must be above 80 degrees F for approximately two weeks at all times, including nights. If the temperature drops, the cycle is halted and must begin anew. Just "being near" a mammal will not guarantee that to be the case if the environmental temperature isn't high enough otherwise. This is a fact that is pretty well kept from the average dog owner in any educational material, as can be expected when even an organization like the "American Heartworm Society" is backed and sponsored by the very industry that reaps the profots from selling HW preventives.

I wasn't trying to be a smartass with the male/female worm comment, since there are parasites that reproduce asexually within the body of their host.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but what I'm trying to accomplish is to make sure people don't make decisions ignorantly and consider information from different sources.

It's the same story of vets rcommending "feeding your dog Science Diet is the best you can do" all over. Luckily many more people see through that than even just 5 years ago.

 

[Red_ACD_for_me]

I have a problem with giving heartworm meds and flea and tick preventatives to any of my dogs all year round and I never use flea and tick preventative. I have Cai checked twice a year for heartworm to. I do give some heartworm for a few months over the summer but that is it. Where I live I have the 4 seasons and my dog does not stay out in my yard at all. He is walked on a leash and brought out to go to the bathroom and brought right back in so I don't see the point in giving my dog pesticides or putting them on him for that matter. I would never use that k9 advantix, advantage, or any of that stuff on my boy. I think it causes more harm than good but that is just my opinion . What doesn't make any sense to me is the people who are so gung-ho about feeding a raw diet because of all the so called crap in kibble and then they turn around and put pesticides in and on there dogs to me doesn't make sense at all.

 

[cindr]

I have a problem with giving heartworm meds and flea and tick preventatives to any of my dogs all year round and I never use flea and tick preventative. I have Cai checked twice a year for heartworm to. I do give some heartworm for a few months over the summer but that is it. Where I live I have the 4 seasons and my dog does not stay out in my yard at all. He is walked on a leash and brought out to go to the bathroom and brought right back in so I don't see the point in giving my dog pesticides or putting them on him for that matter. I would never use that k9 advantix, advantage, or any of that stuff on my boy. I think it causes more harm than good but that is just my opinion . What doesn't make any sense to me is the people who are so gung-ho about feeding a raw diet because of all the so called crap in kibble and then they turn around and put pesticides in and on there dogs to me doesn't make sense at all.

You Have a point. Although when I feed my dogs raw foods I never thought of it as a deterant to dog kibble. We just find that it is more natural in the dogs, have less stuff he pick up. Cheaper than dog food. we can get 100 lbs for ground up cow inners for $50.00 and that would last us for 7 dogs easy 3 months.

As to the heart guard or any type of prevenitive. I like it because it saves on many areas.

1) Keeps the dog safe from the heart worm

2) Keeps the dog free of fleas announing creatures

3) Keeps the dogs feeling good knowing that they do not have any wiggilies going on in fheir bellies (worms)

We have 4 seasons here two we keep our dogs indoors and go for walks. All it takes is one sick miskito and you think you put pesticides in your dog. see what the Dr. Has to do. The dog will thank you for loving him that much to attempt to save his life well before anything like that would happen. Any how to each their own.

 

[bumhouse]

I may have missed it but aside from the breed sensitive thing that I know about with ivermectin what are the potential effects from using a heart worm preventative or a flea and tick preventative? What can it do to your dog?

Why don't the package inserts for these drugs list those types of things like they do with human drugs so we can make a more educated decision?

Is Interceptor as effective as Heartguard? What difference does the absence of the ingredient ivermectin make in the effectiveness of Interceptor?