How does your dog feel about free shaping?

[Elrohwen]

Does your dog enjoy free shaping? Or does he/she do better with another type of training?

And as an extension, of course, are you good at free shaping? Of course a big part of free shaping success depends on the trainer.



Watson and I are not good at free shaping. At all. He has a low frustration tolerance, and he is very persistent when he thinks he is right. Show him a box and he will do one thing to it, probably put his paws on it, over and over and over until he starts shrieking at me because I'm an idiot for not noticing how awesome he was at putting his paws on the box. If I click any minor deviation, he goes right back to paws on box, because that must have been what I meant when I clicked.

Obviously a big part is that I'm not a very good free shaping trainer. I try, but I'm just not good at getting him unstuck if he's only offering one thing. So we stick to kind of lured shaping, whether I'm using a cookie to lure, or just using my own body positioning to get him to do what I want, and then rewarding small steps towards the finished behavior. I'm a bit jealous of those who are very good at free shaping! It looks like a lot of fun and I love creative dogs. Though I'll admit his persistence is nice when he actually is right, because nothing stops him from following through.

 

[CharlieDog]

Ozzy is not that great at it. He gets super frustrated easily and that turns into machine gun barking and ME getting super frustrated so we quit.

Indy is mostly lured into things, but she's getting better at it and enjoys it I think.

Enzo is brilliant and sometimes a mind reader lol.

Harrison is just learning the game, but so far he's super smart.

 

[Toller_08]

Journey is excellent at it. She was better as a puppy until I accidentally took a break and now we're both getting into it more again, but she's still really great and so much fun. Dance loves shaping but is difficult in that she gets stuck and takes a bit to progress, but she has a ton of enthusiasm for it. Both she and Journey are a lot if fun to teach as both get so into it, regardless of whether I'm shaping, luring, etc.

Ripley sucks at it, to be blunt lol. He just doesn't understand and needs direction. But I think part of it is because I didn't do any shaping when he was younger, so he didn't learn to think through things as much as the girls. But I think a lot of it is just him also. He's not easy to teach cues to no matter the method. He's good at everyday life things but is not very scholarly haha.

 

[noludoru]

No. LOL! He doesn't really understand the concept and I'm not the best trainer.

 

[Dizzy]

Bodhi is frustrating as she gets waaaaay over excited and manic. She doesn't think and just bangs out everything she knows in 30 seconds. But she was my guinea pig and we learnt together. Its very hard to get her to focus enough on thinking outside the box, and lots of luring and time is needed. Not that she can't do it, it's just her brain turns to mush and she turns into a dog on speed.

Fred is actually quite good at it he's slower and more thoughtful. And he seems to understand more about offering new things and figuring things out. I think it's more that I know what I'm doing better than he's actually any better than Bodhi and I'm sure if it'd been the other way round things would have been different. I actually took Fred to classes too, which Bodhi has never set foot in.

They're both pretty good at picking stuff up if necessary... Tbh I don't teach Bodhi much new these days.... When I finish work I might have a play

 

[Linds]

Traveler and Didgie are very good at it. Though they both have their strengths in what they tend to offer first. Didgie was the first dog I only shaped things with which has made her very fun to work with. Traveler reads my mind usually so he also tends to shape pretty easily.

Fergus is.....getting there. Slowly. I got him at 7 months and he only knew how to give paw and sit and they were his default so it it's been me just working on getting him to offer things. I do more luring with him than Didgie and Traveler though.

I think I'm a pretty decent shaper. Always getting better but when I cracked down and only shaped things with Didgie I noticed a huge improvement in my abilities.

 

[Slick]

I do mostly luring. It just works better for me as a trainer. I am not very good at my timing when trying to free shape. Usually, I do a mixture. Lure into a basic motion, and then perfect it with free shaping.

Leo himself would do well with free shaping with a better trainer. He does a good job of offering behaviors and thinking about what I am click/treating. You can definitely see his wheels turning when we are training, and he picks things up extremely quickly.

I haven't trained a new trick in a while, mainly because of Leo offering behaviors though. His go to is to rebound right now...no matter what. "You are kneeling down, but I can't figure out what you want. I know! I am going to try rebounding off of your shoulder!" :rofl1:

 

[BostonBanker]

Gusto is a blast for free-shaping. He is very clicker-savvy and loves the game. He tolerates luring a bit as well, but shaping is generally our go-to for training new skills. I haven't really "free-shaped" much lately, because I've had goals in mind. But he's big fun for it.

Meg is better than she used to be. Absence of a reward to her means she's wrong, and if she feels like she's failing she quits. I can shape with her now, and do, but I am much faster to help her out with a lure or some carefully placed rewards to help her get the right idea.

 

[Red.Apricot]

Elsie hates it. "Just tell me what you want and I'll do it, stop this mucking around!"

Zobby loves it. He only works if he thinks it's his idea. ;]

 

[LostAndConfused]

I'm a terrible free shaper. I'm working on free shaping a "take it", but luring a roll over.

 

[Snark]

I don't have the patience for it, I guess, and neither does Riley. He's not very food or toy driven and if I don't give him some direction, he either settles into a staring contest or leaves. Then I get frustrated and wind up luring to get him to do something. Have I mentioned I suck at free shaping?

 

[SpaceMutt]

Astro's not into it. He quits super easily. He doesn't bark or get pissed off, he just silently says "no, I'm done with this" and walks away. And then he doesn't come back for anything, not tug or hot dogs or filet mignon.

It's funny, once he knows a command he is rock solid on it, but he doesn't seem to enjoy the initial creative/learning part. He does better if he's getting the support of initial luring. I will say that he does very well at moving from luring and hand gestures to straight verbal commands, which is nice, but just shaping...no, he's not into it.

I'm sure a good deal of it is me, I'm not any kind of shaping expert. I did try to incorporate it into his puppyhood though, and even as a puppy he was difficult to get to offer behaviors. And he's had a fair number of trainers scratching their heads at how to motivate him, he's just not very resilient against failure and he isn't very invested in the game to start with.

 

[JacksonsMom]

I read this as "How do your dogs feel about free shipping?" I need to go to bed. I was like, uhm.... I don't know how he feels but I like it.


Anywho, he's okay. He usually will try a lot of things until he gets it right. I do mostly luring initially but he's also pretty good at trying a lot of things for himself as well. I just don't have the patience to sit and wait. Certain things are easier with luring.

 

[sassafras]

Personally, I enjoy it. But I do not always have the patience to follow through purely free shaping a task from beginning to end, and I am not always that great at breaking down into steps. So sometimes I sort of do a "guided" shaping where I'm giving them clues or luring for difficult steps.

Pip loves it so much. But he sometimes gets SO excited that he just offers one thing after another in a hyperactive blur. So I have to be very calm, patient and specific with my criteria and NOT TALK AT ALL. He's the best of my 3 at quickly honing in on exactly what I clicked for and he's also adorably hilarious whenever I up criteria... he'll do the last step a couple of times with increasing intensity and give me DIDN'T YOU SEE THAT?! look. Like if a paw touch got a click at first, he'll start slapping with his paw.

Squash is good at it, and the fastest overall at getting from A to Z. BUT, he sometimes needs some cheerleading and guidance if he's stuck. He doesn't get frustrated exactly, but more like... "Ah, nuts to THIS, what's the cat doing?" kind of almost bored. He is the best by far at latent learning between sessions and getting to a final skill, and he is most likely to offer something completely unrelated but hilarious that I may decide to capture.

Maisy is somewhat tentative still. It took her a while to learn to offer behaviors and gain some confidence doing so. Her main strategies are nose or paw touches, and she sometimes gets "stuck" just trying the same thing over and over and needs a lot of cheerleading and encouragement. But she is the most engaged and SO earnest that I think I actually enjoy it the most with her.

 

[pinkspore]

Brisbane and I are both impatient, he cannot stand not knowing what I want him to do and I can't stand the frustration yapping. I haven't tried since putting him on Prozac though, things could be different now. Honestly, the most effective way to teach him a new behavior is to tell him what I want first, as in "I want you to move your back feet without moving your front feet," and then do a bit of luring.

Haven't tried free shaping Uly since he got less weird about Official Training Time, but I suspect he would default to mashing his face against my hands and then sitting and staring at me for all eternity. In Uly-land those two behaviors are the answer to everything ever.

I haven't tried free shaping with Ru because I'm not entirely convinced he understands the clicker, or any commands for that matter. Every one of his training successes could just be random chance. He might have a ten-second stay, or he might have just not felt like moving the last five times I told him to stay. Ru has no razor-sharp attentive mode, unlike the heelers. "You just told me to stay and I am staying. Do you see me staying right here? I am so staying right now." Ru is kind of "meh" about everything except warm laundry fresh from the dryer.

 

[Beanie]

I'm not very good at it - I prefer to have a goal in mind. I've done it a few times with Pepper just to see what she comes up with, but mostly I get the clicker and shape something in particular. Auggie isn't much for shaping in general because he always thinks he knows what I want and gets "stuck" easily - Payton is a shaping rock star so I bet he'd be great at coming up with some stuff if I tried free shaping, but I just have too many goals to really sit down without a plan...

 

[Beret]

I like the idea of it, but Garp ends up frustrated and offering the same circle of behaviors and end up and cheating and inadvertently gesturing for SOMETHING. Could probably be successful if I stuck with it, but I get sick of waiting for him to finish cycling though his "I'm gonna bow, now I'm gonna bark at you, now I'm butt you with every body part and target everything in the room" routine.

 

[Dekka]

Dekka is a pro. Rarely gets stuck and will keep going and going. Its not me though lol, She is my only dog who has rocked free shaping.

 

[Babyblue5290]

Artimis...well....he annoys me when I try free shaping with him. I think if I was less easily annoyed he'd do well with it, but we never tried free shaping with him until he was well over a few years old. He will sit and bark at me, then grab things to bring to me, then try to tear up whatever he brought me, then rinse and repeat. T_T He needs guidance.

Talon is pretty good at it. I can see his mind thinking about what he's suppose to do next, he'll try a few different things until he get's close to what I want and then test were his limits are. It's much easier for me to work on free shaping with him.

 

[Equinox]

I'm not good at it, so I guess I've never really given Trent much of an opportunity to figure it out himself. I always end up "cheating" a bit in some way, usually via luring. It's not that he gets frustrated, but he DOES like to resort to just "giving paw" and punching me repeatedly... which is part of the reason why I run out of patience.