Daddy the pitbull passes the torch

[Amstaffer]

i don't understand this argument.



or this one.

so because there are worse people than cesar, cesar's all good? we're not supposed to have concerns about the disservices he is doing our breed, because there are people doing worse? though i can't say off the top of my head that i can think of any in prime time.

and i've yet to see anyone saying that a true APBT has to be DA, just that the majority are and to expect otherwise is to set the dog up for failure. i just never understand why DA is so distasteful to someone who owns bully breed dogs.

The first one was just a comment on Caesar not being the worst person out there, it was not meant as a defense of his training methods. I have said several times in this thread (although ignored) that I am not crazy about CM's training methods, I just like how he has changed many people's view of the "evil" pit bull.

The second argument that you didn't understand wasn't an argument (I don't understand how you got that) I was asking for a poster to clarify what they said.

Why is DA distasteful.....hmmmm having a problems with my dog wanting to kill other dogs....well I guess I don't want my dog to feel the need to or be stressed by the desire to attack another dog. I had Rotties most of my life and DA was never a problem; when I got Athena she was a rescue and honestly I didn't really do much research....she was cute and needed a home and I gave her one. Had she been DA I would have dealt with it but luckily she wasn't.

I don't understand why DA isn't distasteful? DA isn't what makes the Pittie IMHO. I think it is a part of the breed but doesn't have to be. I think all the things you like about APBT can remain part of the breed and as long as we don't continue to breed for DA I think it will fade away.

 

[dogsarebetter]

oh wow. Someone DOES love to put words in someones mouths.

 

[dogsarebetter]

i don't understand this argument.



or this one.

so because there are worse people than cesar, cesar's all good? we're not supposed to have concerns about the disservices he is doing our breed, because there are people doing worse? though i can't say off the top of my head that i can think of any in prime time.

and i've yet to see anyone saying that a true APBT has to be DA, just that the majority are and to expect otherwise is to set the dog up for failure. i just never understand why DA is so distasteful to someone who owns bully breed dogs.

When did I say that!
oh yeah, cesars great. I worship him, and I think everyone should train like him. yup, thats what i said!

 

[4dogs3cats]

Just wanna say- I love pits, pit mixes, full pits, whatever. I love the *bully breed* dogs. But no, I would never trust one 100% in, let's say, an off leash, dog park environment.

And I truly believe anyone who does is doing a terrible disservice to the breed.

Yes, YOUR pit MAY BE 100% well behaved and NEVER go after another dog for as long as he lives. But why take the chance and fuel the fire against pits?

I like seeing well behaved pits on walks on leash, or hiking mountains with their owners. THAT is going to show people the good side to pits.

The only people that are going to see a well behaved pit at a dog park, are other people at dog parks. I'd rather the people who would never to go a dog park see the well behaved dogs out and about.

I sometimes watch his show for entertainment, but I don't like some of the methods he uses. The episode with the dane and the "flooding" method he used didn't sit well with me.. IDK why it just didnt.

And I agree the bigger problem is the people trying to imitate him. 22 minutes of television show, 3 cases.. So each dog gets about 7 minutes of tv time. You really think he's only there for 7 minutes? It's not a 1-2-3 fix, I'd like to see his whole visit one of these days. The UNscripted part.

 

[Amstaffer]

No, that's not what I said, and no I NEVER implied that.
I don't know who you are, so unless I say something outright, please do not quote me and interject what you *think* I might have said/meant.

I asked you to fricking clarify an ambiguous statement. If you aren't writing literature or poetry then don't use comments like "I know my dog doesn't live with unicorns and under rainbows when it comes to other dogs." So just relax and stop puffing your proverbial chest out!

To deny the history of the APBT is plain ignorant.
To deny that they have the propensity for dog aggression that other breeds may not have, WILL set these dogs up for failure, I'd say, at least a good 95% of the time.
Amstaffer, perhaps your dogs fall into that 5%, but as long as my dog dislikes other dogs (like she has shown me), I will not pretend she is a unicorn or living under a rainbow, nor will I EVER educate the public like so.

Whoa to you now....when or where did I ever deny the history of the Pit Bull? You clearly don't know me. I never say my dogs are the norm but what I was saying is that some are not DA and to say that all (insert breed here) are (insert trait here) is ignorant at best and dishonest at worst.

Comparing DA to herding and retrieving is logical and I understand your point but DA in the hands of foolish or incompetent dog owners will lead to BSLs. Yes I realize that DA and HA are miles apart but if a DA dog gets loose and attacks the the Yorkie of a politically active or connected person it will mean trouble for Pitties. I realize that is illogical but it is a reality.

 

[4dogs3cats]

Sometimes, you HAVE to make generalizations.

Show people the 5% of pits that can be around other dogs and be fine all the time, and people might run out and try to get a dog just like that.

If someone said to me, I want a dog but I don't want it to bark a lot, I'm not going to say, well I have 1 beagle that doesn't bark but know tons that do, so you could get a beagle, and if you raise him right he won't bark.

Thats a disservice to beagles. Beagles BARK- GENERALLY SPEAKING.

Pits are DA- GENERALLY speaking.

 

[Amstaffer]

Pits are DA- GENERALLY speaking.

I would agree with that with a slight revision

Pits (APBT, Amstaff etc...) are more DA than most dogs on average.

Whenever I meet a new Pittie I assume he/she is DA until I am proven otherwise.



EDIT.....that was my 3000th post. Woot!

 

[Chewbecca]

I asked you to fricking clarify an ambiguous statement. If you aren't writing literature or poetry then don't use comments like "I know my dog doesn't live with unicorns and under rainbows when it comes to other dogs." So just relax and stop puffing your proverbial chest out!

If my statement was ambiguous, then perhaps you should ask Miakoda for clarification since I was referring a statement she had made (one that I agree FAR TOO MANY fanciers, today, of the rescued APBT live by or it's a way that one would think they think).
I'll stop "puffing" my "proverbial chest out" when you get better reading comprehension skills.
I do NOT think that only true APBTs are dog aggressive.


Whoa to you now....when or where did I ever deny the history of the Pit Bull? You clearly don't know me. I never say my dogs are the norm but what I was saying is that some are not DA and to say that all (insert breed here) are (insert trait here) is ignorant at best and dishonest at worst.

Comparing DA to herding and retrieving is logical and I understand your point but DA in the hands of foolish or incompetent dog owners will lead to BSLs. Yes I realize that DA and HA are miles apart but if a DA dog gets loose and attacks the the Yorkie of a politically active or connected person it will mean trouble for Pitties. I realize that is illogical but it is a reality.

If you weren't "denying the history of the APBT" then you wouldn't be so unable to accept dog aggression.

I do NOT think that a DA dog needs to fall in the hands of foolish or incompetent dog owners. That's why I try to educate the public about pit bulls in an honest way and make sure they are aware that pit bulls do have the propensity to be DA.
So, as you can see, what I've been saying this ENTIRE TIME, I think people need to be educated about the possibility that Pit Bulls have to be DA.


I don't think that anyone "desires" the DA trait in ANY dog. But we know what it is and we're willing to accept that with our dogs comes this possibility.
We don't blindly walk around thinking DA doesn't "need to be".
Go ahead, try and train DA out a of an APBT.
HA!
There is a difference between "training something out" and "managing" something.
DA is manageable with APBTs.
Not changeable.
This is why we are the humans and not the dogs.
We don't leave our dogs to their own devices.
At least I don't.

 

[JennSLK]

EDIT.....that was my 3000th post. Woot!

And it only took you 4 1/2 years to get there. :rofl1: Talk more

 

[elegy]

I don't understand why DA isn't distasteful? DA isn't what makes the Pittie IMHO. I think it is a part of the breed but doesn't have to be. I think all the things you like about APBT can remain part of the breed and as long as we don't continue to breed for DA I think it will fade away.

no, it's not what makes a pit bull a pit bull, but it's a part of the spark, the drive, the tenacity, and the confidence that makes a pit bull a *good* pit bull. and i do not believe that you can separate out dog aggression and make it go away.

i'm sorry, i don't want to see a good working breed watered down into something nondescript.

dog aggression really doesn't have to be a big deal. honest.

 

[Renee750il]

The first one was just a comment on Caesar not being the worst person out there, it was not meant as a defense of his training methods. I have said several times in this thread (although ignored) that I am not crazy about CM's training methods, I just like how he has changed many people's view of the "evil" pit bull.

The second argument that you didn't understand wasn't an argument (I don't understand how you got that) I was asking for a poster to clarify what they said.

Why is DA distasteful.....hmmmm having a problems with my dog wanting to kill other dogs....well I guess I don't want my dog to feel the need to or be stressed by the desire to attack another dog. I had Rotties most of my life and DA was never a problem; when I got Athena she was a rescue and honestly I didn't really do much research....she was cute and needed a home and I gave her one. Had she been DA I would have dealt with it but luckily she wasn't.

I don't understand why DA isn't distasteful? DA isn't what makes the Pittie IMHO. I think it is a part of the breed but doesn't have to be. I think all the things you like about APBT can remain part of the breed and as long as we don't continue to breed for DA I think it will fade away.

I can understand your viewpoint, but you must remember, you have AmStaffs. You don't have APBTs. They are two entirely different breeds with very different temperaments.

People who prefer the AmStaff temperament should go with the AmStaffs. People who like the APBT temperament should be able to keep the APBTs, DA and all. You can't breed out the DA without breeding out the fire that burns in our dogs, and we love that about them. Breeding the DA out of the APBT would be as tragic as breeding the ojeriza out of the Fila.

Really, what makes the APBT more DA isn't the Pit Bull part of the name, it's that Terrier part. That's the nature of most of the Terriers, just in varying degrees. Terriers are fiesty. It's what they do.

 

[4dogs3cats]

I would agree with that with a slight revision

Pits (APBT, Amstaff etc...) are more DA than most dogs on average.

Whenever I meet a new Pittie I assume he/she is DA until I am proven otherwise.

How do they prove otherwise though? When they die of old age without attacking another dog. I would NEVER 100% trust my pit to not be DA. I'm cautious when my GSD meets other dogs, and he LOVES dogs, I'm not about to think that just because a pit bull has met 1,000 dogs and did not react means the next one he meets won't throw him into a frenzy.

no, it's not what makes a pit bull a pit bull, but it's a part of the spark, the drive, the tenacity, and the confidence that makes a pit bull a *good* pit bull. and i do not believe that you can separate out dog aggression and make it go away.

i'm sorry, i don't want to see a good working breed watered down into something nondescript.

dog aggression really doesn't have to be a big deal. honest.

I never understood why people always thought it was such a bad thing. CATS are KNOWN for hissing and fighting each other when they meet. I hear cat fights outside ALLLL the time.

I, as a human, do not like a lot of people I come in contact with. Now, because I am a human, I can control my actions, but when someone pisses me off enough, it may cause an argument or a fight.

If I can't trust myself 100% to not fight with another of my species, why would I expect my dog to?

 

[Amstaffer]

If you weren't "denying the history of the APBT" then you wouldn't be so unable to accept dog aggression.
.

For someone who hates to be misquoted have their statement tagged with false implications you sure are good at it.

Fist part of your statement is non sequitur. To deny that Pit Bulls were used in fighting and were genetically manipulated to intensify DA and other dog fighting traits is denying the history of the APBT. Which of course I never did. Example (extreme to drive home a point) Germans who say that the Nazis were evil are not denying their history but rather coming to grips with it and learn from the mistakes of the past to improve the future. Germans are still a great people who have a lot of cultural traits that helped make them Nazis successful but now are being used to have a productive and enlightened democracy.


When and where did I say that I couldn't accept that DA is in Pit Bulls? Talk about misquoting

You also continue to use and highlight words like "Honest and Blindly" implying that I am either dishonest and naive while you misquote or draw wild conclusions from what I said.

I never said you can train DA out of a dog. You can train a dog to be more controllable and less likely to "lose it" but regardless of breed I have always said if you dog is DA keep it away from off leash dog encounters. Like you Lab and Collie analogy....you can train a Lab not to chase the ball but if your dog is off leash and someone throws a ball and you aren't right there you can bet on your dog chasing it.

 

[Amstaffer]

And it only took you 4 1/2 years to get there. :rofl1: Talk more

:rofl1: I go in spurts....like tonight

 

[Amstaffer]

no, it's not what makes a pit bull a pit bull, but it's a part of the spark, the drive, the tenacity, and the confidence that makes a pit bull a *good* pit bull. and i do not believe that you can separate out dog aggression and make it go away.

i'm sorry, i don't want to see a good working breed watered down into something nondescript.

dog aggression really doesn't have to be a big deal. honest.

I completely disagree. You can keep the spark, the drive and all the rest and still have a good pit bull. I have seen APBT and American Bulldogs in Schutzhund and PSA that are all of those things that aren't DA.

 

[Renee750il]

I completely disagree. You can keep the spark, the drive and all the rest and still have a good pit bull. I have seen APBT and American Bulldogs in Schutzhund and PSA that are all of those things that aren't DA.

I've seen them too. It's just not the same. Not even remotely. It's not a spark, it's a fire that burns bright.

 

[Chewbecca]

Amstaffer,
Seriously, knock it off.

You misquoted me and started it.

I have made my views on pit bulls, their history, the importance of properly educating people about them, and their DA, WELL known here.

Find someone else to quote and/or misquote.

Leave me out of this.
I do not wish to argue with you so please leave me alone.
And honestly, I do not give a rat's a$$ what your views on DA are.
I'm just d@mn glad you aren't handling MY dog.

 

[Amstaffer]

I can understand your viewpoint, but you must remember, you have AmStaffs. You don't have APBTs. They are two entirely different breeds with very different temperaments.
.

Actually Sal is an Amstaff but Athena was a rescue. Her pregnant mother was seized from a dogfighting operation in Freeport IL. She was born in the humane society and raised in a the home of a PB rescue.

 

[Amstaffer]

I never understood why people always thought it was such a bad thing. CATS are KNOWN for hissing and fighting each other when they meet. I hear cat fights outside ALLLL the time.

I, as a human, do not like a lot of people I come in contact with. Now, because I am a human, I can control my actions, but when someone pisses me off enough, it may cause an argument or a fight.

If I can't trust myself 100% to not fight with another of my species, why would I expect my dog to?

Because cats aren't looking in the cold face of BSLs!

DA isn't a problem if you know what you are doing but I am sorry to say....most PB owners don't

 

[Fran101]

hehehehehe