Clicker Retrieve

[Sch3Dana]

I'm training my pup to retrieve using a clicker. I've gotten him to the point where he understands that he should pick up the object, come to me with it and sit. So, I'm pretty pleased with the results so far.

However, he's not nearly as focused as I would like to see. He often drops the object at the wrong time and then wanders around a bit before re-initiating the sequence. He also does not perform well on new objects.

Anyone out there with ideas about how to address this lack of reliability?

 

[milos_mommy]

How old is he? Younger pups can get bored and distracted easily. If he's under six months, i wouldn't worry about it.

If he's older than that, i'd just work on some focusing activities. i know there are some good threads on here, but i don't know if i could find them.

Basically, just walk around as you normally would but keep treats around the house and a clicker on hand. if he makes eye contact, click and treat. Soon he'll be staring you down trying to show you how attentive he is.

 

[Dekka]

I clickertrained an obed retrieve with 2 dogs so far (the third has a natural retrieve, which I polished with the clicker) And really like it.

Before you worry about focus...

When do you click? Do you always click the same part? How far away are you asking him to retrieve from?

 

[lizzybeth727]

Generalizing to new objects is always a very confusing part of the retrieve for dogs. With each new object (or at least the first three or four), you'll basically have to re-teach the retrieve from the beginning, the same way you taught it the first time. But your dog will move through the steps a lot faster as he gets better, so it shouldn't take nearly as long.

As far as focus, it could be due to your dog's age, if he is young. It could also be that you're moving too fast - rasing your training criteria before he truely has the idea of what you want, so he's getting frustrated and confused. Maybe back up a few steps and start clicking for slightly easier behaviors, until he gets very eager to do those quickly.

 

[doberkim]

I agree, the dogs age is a huge factor.

Also, I break things up -
the retrieve is its own clickable component.
The front with the db in the mouth is a separate, clickable action.
the out is a separate, clickable action.
The hold is a separate, clickable action.

ALL of these items are taught separately before they are integrated into a full fledged retrieve.

 

[Sch3Dana]

The pup is 8 months old now and I've worked the retrieve on and off since he was 4 months old. I can put an object on the ground and send him on command (which he knows a little). He will go to it, pick it up (or fumble with), come back with it (or drop it), sit front (or drop it) and spit it out on command. I do not yet reach for it to have him give it to hand.

I trained it with a little play/prey to get his mouth on it and then clicked that. Then I waited for him to pick it up to click. Then I shaped a return to me. Then a sit. It's not gone badly, but I need a way to convince him he should hold it until told to drop it. To me he lacks any seriousness or conviction about the exercise. My inclination is to force the hold a little bit, but I'm looking for other options to see what is out there. I've trained a lot of retrieves, but mostly play and force, not not like this.

Basically, just walk around as you normally would but keep treats around the house and a clicker on hand. if he makes eye contact, click and treat. Soon he'll be staring you down trying to show you how attentive he is.

I've been there and done that and now I have a 10 year old dog who has driven me crazy for the last half of his life. :lol-sign: I don't want another dog that is "on" all the time. I've been very careful with this guy not to reward him for offering outside of training sessions. He is cool and lazy in the house and doesn't demand too much of me which is working out much better for me at this stage in my life. Keep in mind that these are malinois- like bc's with bite Attention is never the problem, neither is drive, but clear, calm focus is another thing altogether. They tend to get frazzled and act really nutty if the training isn't clear and simple.

So, I guess what I'm asking about is how to get the hold part of the exercise solid without resorting to force. It certainly improved when I ended some sessions for excessive dropping.

 

[Dekka]

Train it seperatly. Its a duration behaviour, so train it as such. Don't train it as part of the whole exercise, no lumping. Just train the take and hold.

 

[lizzybeth727]

I would suggest not working on the delivery yet - getting him to walk to you and drop it where you want him to on command. At this point, send him to pick it up and click while he's holding it. He doesn't even have to walk with it. At first click as soon as he picks it up, then after he's got that, click when he holds it for one second longer, and one second longer, etc. Of course when you click, he'll drop the object to get the treat, and that's fine.

When he's holding it for about 5 seconds or so waiting for the click, then you can back up about a step (his step) away from you and start working on getting him to walk to you. Click when he takes a step if the object is still in his mouth. Add distance gradually here, too, just one step at a time.

Once he's holding it long enough to take several steps to you (I'd say at least 4 or 5 steps), THEN you can work on the delivery. If you want him to drop it in your hand, start with that. He's holding the object, he walks to you and waits for the treat, so put your hand under the object and either give him the "drop" command if he knows it, or just take it out of his mouth. Click when it comes out of his mouth, whether it lands in your hand or not (but keep your hand very close so that you do catch it). As he gets better, you can raise your criteria until you want him to place it into your hand deliberately. When he gets good at that, move your hand so he has to find your hand (put it at your side, on your lap, wherever), and then deliberately place the object into it.

Let us know how it goes!

 

[adojrts]

This is an excellent site with very straight foreward info on how to clicker train a retrieve. I hope it helps. At a very quick glance, I would agree with her method, as we do this in clicker training all the time. Breaking down each component and then back chaining it. I use backchaining A LOT in agility training and love it, much better in the beginning than frontchaining.

http://www.dogscouts1.com/Dog_Activ-_Retrieve.html

Good luck
Lynn

 

[Sch3Dana]

Thanks for the answers. I am most of the way through the frontchaining method lizzybeth describes, I'm just not happy with the lack of purposefulness in the puppy. He is just a little too unconcerned about letting the object drop prior to the click. I am sure it is bc we have never really worked on hold as an exercise all by itself.

I read the article Lynn sent and it seemed to reinforce my ideas of teaching the hold- i.e., at some point you will have to help some dogs hold before letting them open their mouths. I also agree that backchaining is the right way to make this clearer. I started out the way I did bc I wanted to shape some sort of clear retrieving behavior when he was young and holding was totally out of the question. Malinois pups are usually very bad at static exercises when they are young. At four months, Zeppi couldn't even hold his head still for a second, let alone let me put something in his mouth without a battle. In this last month I have noticed a real change in that, so maybe now I can go back on work on just the hold in a way that won't overwhelm the little malinut

Thanks for the tips. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[lizzybeth727]

I just don't think it's necessary to have to "help" dogs hold. That'd be like holding a dog in a sit position to teach him to "stay." If you can teach stay by gradually clicking longer and longer stays, I don't really see how this is that much different.

 

[adojrts]

I just don't think it's necessary to have to "help" dogs hold. That'd be like holding a dog in a sit position to teach him to "stay." If you can teach stay by gradually clicking longer and longer stays, I don't really see how this is that much different.

Did you read the link? If the dog/pup wont or doesn't understand than teaching with the clicker and backchaining makes perfect sense, imo. The pup/dog isn't being forced to hold, which holding a dog in a stay would be. The two are not even remotely the same in my mind.

 

[lizzybeth727]

yes, of course I read the link, why would I comment on something I hadn't read