Can you tell me if I did the right thing?
- Thread starter StephyMei1112
- Start date
She is is telling you what you did wrong and how to do it right.
I honestly don't know any reputable trainer that tells people to pop their dog on the nose or hit them with a leash. I know in your intro thread you wanted to move up to the training department at Petsmart. My friends took classes *and some still do* there and that is NOT something that is practiced or even joked about there because even saying it in joke leaves a chance that an uneducated person will go out and try it. She/he? is giving advice that you will actually be able to use if you are really wanting to go into dog training especially with a company that is known *at least around here* as a positive reinforcement ONLY training.
And in her defense I'M the one criticizing your 'training advice'. I'M the one who pointed out that you are asking someone to physically pop/hit a dog who is reactive and is already reacting to something.
Danefield has given amazing non confrontational advice. She has explained why the training methods she is saying work and why yours do not. That is in no way attacking or starting a fight unless you just cannot take legitimate advice with facts to back it up.
I honestly don't know any reputable trainer that tells people to pop their dog on the nose or hit them with a leash. I know in your intro thread you wanted to move up to the training department at Petsmart. My friends took classes *and some still do* there and that is NOT something that is practiced or even joked about there because even saying it in joke leaves a chance that an uneducated person will go out and try it. She/he? is giving advice that you will actually be able to use if you are really wanting to go into dog training especially with a company that is known *at least around here* as a positive reinforcement ONLY training.
And in her defense I'M the one criticizing your 'training advice'. I'M the one who pointed out that you are asking someone to physically pop/hit a dog who is reactive and is already reacting to something.
Danefield has given amazing non confrontational advice. She has explained why the training methods she is saying work and why yours do not. That is in no way attacking or starting a fight unless you just cannot take legitimate advice with facts to back it up.
Does this dog get to do something draining before walks? My 7 year old dog still gets the zoomie oomies sometimes when he's really hyper and I happen to play tug WITH my leash so... I encourage some naughy behaviors on lead but only on cue. I taught him the cue for it and to let go so that his undesirable behavior now became something I had under control. He knows GET IT as he's allowed to tug and LET GO, please as it's time to stop so we can continue on.
I often play tug before we go out on a walk too just to burn off some of his energy. You've gotten way better advice so far in this thread but honestly I LOVE playing tug with my dog and getting him riled up. But only when I ask.
I often play tug before we go out on a walk too just to burn off some of his energy. You've gotten way better advice so far in this thread but honestly I LOVE playing tug with my dog and getting him riled up. But only when I ask.
Does this dog get to do something draining before walks? My 7 year old dog still gets the zoomie oomies sometimes when he's really hyper and I happen to play tug WITH my leash so... I encourage some naughy behaviors on lead but only on cue. I taught him the cue for it and to let go so that his undesirable behavior now became something I had under control. He knows GET IT as he's allowed to tug and LET GO, please as it's time to stop so we can continue on.
I often play tug before we go out on a walk too just to burn off some of his energy. You've gotten way better advice so far in this thread but honestly I LOVE playing tug with my dog and getting him riled up. But only when I ask.
I often play tug before we go out on a walk too just to burn off some of his energy. You've gotten way better advice so far in this thread but honestly I LOVE playing tug with my dog and getting him riled up. But only when I ask.
(and before somebody says it, I know, dog != people. You can treat your dog how you like, and I'll treat mine how I like
)
I just need to say, I LOVE that you say please to Bandit XD I get looked at like I'm crazy cause I say please and thank you to my dog. I mean, I say please and thank you to people... Why would I be rude to her?
(and before somebody says it, I know, dog != people. You can treat your dog how you like, and I'll treat mine how I like )
(and before somebody says it, I know, dog != people. You can treat your dog how you like, and I'll treat mine how I like
)
Tonight the jogging thing worked! a quarter way of the walk thru she got that look on her face and started lunging - I first tried getting her to sit - she did but spazed out right after and mouthed me on the butt (I wish it was a guy doing that instead of my dog ROFL) - right after that I made her leash very short, put her at my right side and proceeded to jog - she kept trying to jump around and nip so I just went all out and ran like hell. We went uphill at a great pace and around a corner till it was actually HER that stopped - and when she did stop - she actually just settled down and sniffed around! no recurrence!
So far so good - I'll be consistent with this and practice focus/impulse control with her as well.
ROFL) - right after that I made her leash very short, put her at my right side and proceeded to jog - she kept trying to jump around and nip so I just went all out and ran like hell. We went uphill at a great pace and around a corner till it was actually HER that stopped - and when she did stop - she actually just settled down and sniffed around! no recurrence!So far so good - I'll be consistent with this and practice focus/impulse control with her as well.
I try to only use positive methods in training, but I'm not one to just stand there and ignore... it bothers me when trainers tell you to just ignore behaviors that annoy you. I'd rather be proactive and redirect my dog to DO something else, that is fun and rewarding, rather than just let them "cry it out" per se.I LOL'ed so hard at (I wish it was a guy doing that instead of my dog)... you're kinky! Bwahaha! You should stick around here fo sho!
Danefield... :hail: this is why I love you!
I think it was a very objective, factual post about the ineffectiveness of punishments. As a law, positive punishment is NOT effective if it doesn't work to extinguish a behavior within a few repetitions. When people say "my dogs needs to be punished", it's really the owner who feels they need to use punishment, or who has created a dog who needs to be punished because that is what they are used to, they've been conditioned to expect punishment. It's like if you teach a dog to sit by saying "sit... siiiit.... siiiitttt! SIT!", you're creating a dog who needs to be told to sit 5 times before they do it. Instead of popping the dog in the nose, telling him off, then rewarding him when he's off, why not just toss the treat off the bed and tell him "off"? When you are teaching a command, it's just unfair to use corrections. Why correct a dog for not doing something that they clearly don't understand? There is no need to be overtly confrontational or snappy, even (especially) with strong, independent breeds.
Tossing a treat off the bed is bribery. It works to teach him to jump off the bed - like if he's a puppy or a timid dog who doesn't know how to jump off of things - but once he knows that, you shouldn't have to toss a treat to get him off anymore.
With my dog, instead of telling him to get off furnature, instead I give him something else to do. So instead of just "get off my bed," I tell him "go to YOUR bed." In the very beginning I used treats to reinforce, but now a "good boy" suffices (it's also a very comfy bed, so it's self-reinforcing).
With my dog, instead of telling him to get off furnature, instead I give him something else to do. So instead of just "get off my bed," I tell him "go to YOUR bed." In the very beginning I used treats to reinforce, but now a "good boy" suffices (it's also a very comfy bed, so it's self-reinforcing).
If I'm understanding correctly, you are IN bed when you use this technique and he's not getting off when you tell him, you can't physically push him off from your position, and that's when you hit him?
If I'm understanding it correctly and that is true, I think the way you are using hitting him on the nose is more akin to management than training. It's easier and it gets you through the moment, but I'm not convinced it actually teaches the dog anything. Practicing tons of "off" when you are not actually in bed would do more to actually teach him. (If I'm not understanding it correctly, then never mind.)
If I'm understanding it correctly and that is true, I think the way you are using hitting him on the nose is more akin to management than training. It's easier and it gets you through the moment, but I'm not convinced it actually teaches the dog anything. Practicing tons of "off" when you are not actually in bed would do more to actually teach him. (If I'm not understanding it correctly, then never mind.)
No one is really understanding me correctly, lol. They keep giving advice when I explained that the problem has already been fixed. They just don't agree with the method so I keep giving advice because it's being interpreted like the problem wasn't fixed.
I pop him on the nose to show him that getting on the bed when I have said no and off is not the desired behavior. I then show him the desired behavior and reward him for it. He is an almost 2 year old Rhodesian Ridgeback. He is not fearful, and is very hard headed. As I said, this is not the only scenario that I have to use physical correction to help him understand the difference between desired and undesired behaviors. He has done well with all of my methods, and I have tried using only positive reinforcement and he doesn't always get it. He understands what he is supposed to do, but not always what he is not supposed to do.
OP, sorry for the thread hijack.
I pop him on the nose to show him that getting on the bed when I have said no and off is not the desired behavior. I then show him the desired behavior and reward him for it. He is an almost 2 year old Rhodesian Ridgeback. He is not fearful, and is very hard headed. As I said, this is not the only scenario that I have to use physical correction to help him understand the difference between desired and undesired behaviors. He has done well with all of my methods, and I have tried using only positive reinforcement and he doesn't always get it. He understands what he is supposed to do, but not always what he is not supposed to do.
OP, sorry for the thread hijack.
I'm not jumping into the fray, but I did want to second this and thank Danefield for her posts.
I’m curious as to what “experienced trainer†would advise someone to pop their RR on the nose. Or for that matter, take the end of the leash and smack the dog across the rear end.
Hrm... Chevelle is the pit, Malyk is the Rhodie. Seems like Malyk is not the only dog you have to use physical corrections with. Unless you don’t consider a good smack with the leash across the butt a physical correction. Again...
Its interesting to me how so often the dog gets blamed for why rewards based training doesn’t work.
There are a LOT of reasons why force free training might not work, ranging from poor timing, to poor understanding of that dog’s motivations, to poor control of resources, failed management, to the owner just not being 100% on board with it. I get it. Force free doesn’t always work for each dog/owner pairing. But believe me, its not the dog who’s the weakest link.
I put dogs who don’t respond to reinforcements in the same category as fairies, unicorns, and gnomes. Maybe they do exist for real, but it seems a lot more likely that they are a fabrication of someone’s imagination, created because the human has a need for them to exist, not because they really do.
Rhodesians are incredibly intelligent dogs. A dog meant to hold a lion at bay until the hunters catch up isn’t going to last too long if it doesn’t know how to use his brain.
These dogs are amazing problem solvers, determined and very smart. They don’t suffer fools gladly and you can quickly loose credibility with them if you attempt to bribe or otherwise trick them. THIS is where PR “fails†with breeds like rhodies. Its not at all that they don’t get it. Its that they’re not going to fall for an air cookie more than once. And once you loose a rhodie’s respect, good luck getting it back.
Barbara, you say you want to be a trainer yes? This board is full of very knowledgeable, experienced folks. I humbly suggest to you quit arguing that what you did “worked†and take some time to just listen, internalize and try to learn from what is being said.
There are a lot of things that “workâ€, when it comes to training animals, but if you plan on making a career of dog training, I think you ill find that “it worked†is setting the bar awfully low.
