Brachy breeds health vs quality?

[JacksonsMom]

To be perfectly honest, I actually prefer the look of BYB-type dogs in a lot of breeds.

Chihuahua's, I've always preferred the look of a less-apple-like head, and a bit larger.... Yorkies, same deal. I prefer the more terrier-looking ones (not the 'teacup' and 'teddy bear' faces) and a bit larger. Same with Papillons. And Goldens. And basically a lot of breeds, I tend to like BYB-style... lol. Whoops.

 

[sillysally]

To be perfectly honest, I actually prefer the look of BYB-type dogs in a lot of breeds.

Chihuahua's, I've always preferred the look of a less-apple-like head, and a bit larger.... Yorkies, same deal. I prefer the more terrier-looking ones (not the 'teacup' and 'teddy bear' faces) and a bit larger. Same with Papillons. And Goldens. And basically a lot of breeds, I tend to like BYB-style... lol. Whoops.

For shame!

I agree with you though, especially on the chi's....

 

[Saeleofu]

I do prefer the look of BYB boxers, chihuahas, and a couple other breeds.

Collies, though, I don't care for the BYB look at all. Their ears are never right (usually either drop or prick, though I actually like the look of prick ears on collies, shhhhhhhhhhh ), and their faces are really extreme, and the teeth are usually pretty bad because of it. A lot of them look like overgrown shelties instead of collies. And their hair is all wrong a lot of times.

 

[Laurelin]

To be perfectly honest, I actually prefer the look of BYB-type dogs in a lot of breeds.

Chihuahua's, I've always preferred the look of a less-apple-like head, and a bit larger.... Yorkies, same deal. I prefer the more terrier-looking ones (not the 'teacup' and 'teddy bear' faces) and a bit larger. Same with Papillons. And Goldens. And basically a lot of breeds, I tend to like BYB-style... lol. Whoops.

How many byb papillons do you know? I've known...a lot. There really isn't a byb 'style' papillon. Some I've met I thought were Sheltie mixes. This is coming from someone that has had both. Super long snout, very fluffy and lots of color. Another was 3 lbs on a fat day. Also fluffy and super short in the leg. One was super slick coated. Many I know have bad underbites. Probably about half do. I like the larger size on some but that's not the only thing to take into consideration.

That's kinda the problem... You have no idea what you're going to get.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

I love a well bred chihuahua. Frankly I can't think of a well bred dog I don't prefer over a badly bred one. That said I can think of several that I prefer non-show-focused bred dogs.

I think the issue with BYB being a goal is BYB is such a vast and vague label.

 

[Laurelin]

Here's a visual of what I mean:

Probably around 15 lbs, bad underbite. Sweet dog with loads of energy. Would put any JRT I know to shame. I really like this guy. Friend bought him after loving Beau so much.

Vet's papillon. 3 lbs or so. short legs, double coat. Sweet dog but low low low energy.

So... that's what I mean when people start saying 'I like the BYB version'- which one?

ETA: I mean this on any breed. Just using mine since I'm more familiar with it.

 

[Saeleofu]

This is the sort of BYB chihuahua and BYB boxer I like

 

[JacksonsMom]

Here's a visual of what I mean:

Probably around 15 lbs, bad underbite. Sweet dog with loads of energy. Would put any JRT I know to shame. I really like this guy. Friend bought him after loving Beau so much.

Vet's papillon. 3 lbs or so. short legs, double coat. Sweet dog but low low low energy.

So... that's what I mean when people start saying 'I like the BYB version'- which one?

ETA: I mean this on any breed. Just using mine since I'm more familiar with it.

Yeah BYB is too vague of a term, I guess, lol. But I basically just mean out of standard, I guess? I don't know. I just tend to like the looks of rescue dogs or BYB dogs in general better than 'show' dogs. I haven't met many Paps in real life personally. But of those pics, I prefer the first dog by far.

Example, I much prefer all the typical pet-type yorkies (which I see a heck of a lot more of) than the show dog yorkies.

I'd pick this:

over this:

And I like these Chihuahua's:

over this:

And I prefer 'puggles' over pugs, and cockapoos over cocker spaniels or poodles (speaking looks-only) lol. It's just my personal preference. Not saying it's right or anything, just what I prefer.

 

[ruffiangirl]

Of the breeds I am interested in owning there isn't a huge line between looks for well and BYB, probably because they are both covered in hair, the difference between well and BYB is health.

But for other breeds I prefer the show lines generally, biggest exception being German Shepherds. I love show Chihuahuas, I love the little round heads, lol. But if everyone liked the same thing we wouldn't have the number of breeds we do today.

I personally prefer breeders who breed to the standard set by breed clubs, but there are some breeds that I don't agree with what they have become. Bulldogs, pugs, pekes and frenchies rank high on that list, the issues that are purposely being bred into them are deplorable, IMO. Which is why I, personally, prefer breeders who breed a dog that can compete in the show ring, then turn around and do some sort of trials, weather it's obedience, field or what have you.

 

[frostfell]

Whoops, sorry. You only planned on it, until they kept getting "stolen." My bad. Now you just breed tricolored American Bullies out of a bitch you told me you were scared of because of her temperament issues that come down from her sire. Thanks for the correction.

Are you always deliberately as nasty and hateful as possible? Only one dog was ever stolen from me, Iv never owned a wolf hybrid or wanted one, Iv always thought they are a terrible idea as pets, I breed American Bullies because its a breed I am in love with, I have never bred any other breed, and will never leave this breed, and I've never been scared of Kitty, I trusted people who werent trustworthy, and got some very very bad advice about behavior issues from people who know nothing, and nearly destroyed a beautiful dog with my idiocy, which I have since learned better on. Shes not, and has never been, H/A

Any more blatant ****ing ignorance I can dispel for you, viper?

 

[frostfell]

Back to the actual topic, yes, others are saying it better. I like the BYB look, I suppose. less "extreme" in type. and someone posted a few pics in the other frenchie topic with a black brindle with a little 3" tail, and it was adorable and perfect. so I guess it IS out there, I just need to find it.

i agree about the yorkis and chis and such.... the show style looks like a caricature of a real dog *yech*

 

[SevenSins]

Are you always deliberately as nasty and hateful as possible?

That's interesting coming from someone who offers items for sale, takes peoples' hard earned money, and then tells them to "go f*** themselves."

Only one dog was ever stolen from me

So the other ones just up and "disappeared" then? Probably a good thing Vanyel "disappeared" too or I imagine we'd be cleaning up a whole pile of hung-papered merle Pit mutts since you were so hell bent on breeding them.

Iv never owned a wolf hybrid or wanted one, Iv always thought they are a terrible idea as pets

Interesting. Not what was posted by your other personality, Amayon... Good thing Ray shut the other site down so that nobody can see those years worth of your crap, huh? And now you post this to justify getting into yet ANOTHER breed from BYBs and breeding them "your (completely against the standard) way."

I breed American Bullies because its a breed I am in love with

You got into the "breed" because you saw dollar signs breeding "rare" tricolor dogs. Same reason you tried to get into breeding "merle Pit Bulls."

I've never been scared of Kitty, I trusted people who werent trustworthy, and got some very very bad advice about behavior issues from people who know nothing, and nearly destroyed a beautiful dog with my idiocy, which I have since learned better on. Shes not, and has never been, H/A

Like the advice I gave you when you came to me and told me that you were scared of her when she would behave aggressively toward you, and you knew that her sire had produced several other dogs with bad temperaments? "Behavioral issues" that were severe enough that you almost euthanized her, is that what we're calling it now that you bred her? :rofl1:

Any more blatant ****ing ignorance I can dispel for you, viper?

Well, I guess while we're at it I may as well ask why you're misleading people into believing you breed health tested dogs...

 

[OwnedByBCs]

Other than Poms, in which I tend to like the bigger "pet bred" ones, I like the show or working bred dogs in every breed. If I were to ever get a Pom, it would either be from a rescue, to get the bigger size, or I would get a German Spitz Klein. The "pet bred" Poms look just like German Spitz Klein (realistically they were developed together, originally separated by size), but there are breeders who health test in GSKs.

Anyways, my suggestion to the OP would be to get a rescue. If you like the "BYB style" of Frenchies so much, find one that is right for you in rescue. Just because you prefer the looks of BYB dogs doesn't mean that it is a responsible or ethical choice to support that type of breeding.

 

[Saeleofu]

I would like to add that I'd never actually BUY a dog from a BYB. If I wanted a BYB type, it would be a rescue, like Gavroche and Tango were (neither of them came FROM a rescue, but they themselves were rescues...Tango was minutes from death).

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

Anyways, my suggestion to the OP would be to get a rescue. If you like the "BYB style" of Frenchies so much, find one that is right for you in rescue. Just because you prefer the looks of BYB dogs doesn't mean that it is a responsible or ethical choice to support that type of breeding.

This would be my point exactly with the understanding that a BYB is unethical.

Just because a dog looks like your ideal it doesn't make it right to breed "just for looks". If there are other aspects of the breeding which are ideal I would feel totally comfortable buying (Backup isn't perfect to standard but he's a phenomenal working/sporting dog) away from the standard but breeding for looks, whether standard or not, is far from breeding for the whole dog.

 

[frostfell]

rescue is an option, certainly, but with health and temperament being high priority to me as well, ideally id like to buy from a breeder with known history. i never said i was going to buy from a byb, god forbid, im simply hoping to find a less extreme *style* bred by someone who is a good breeder, just not a *show* breeder. its out there in other breeds-- why not this one? *shrug*

 

[Laurelin]

Why not a show breeder?

I'm not that familiar with frenchies but I know people in papillons that show but also have less extreme dogs. Several of the agility folk have really nice balance IMO. One I am thinking of has some top agility dogs who are also all breed champions. Nice size on them and nice head type that is more moderate than most but still breed appropriate. Nice structure too. I'd kill for a dog from her one day.

I would think there would be non byb options out there.

 

[Sekah]

One of the stumbling blocks this conversation is running into is lumping breeders into the categories of "show" vs "BYB". (Not everyone is doing this, of course.) There are plenty of wonderful breeders out there breeding for something that isn't the show ring -- work, sport, etc. It can get a bit trickier with the companion breeds who aren't exactly made to do much to start with, but you can still find quality breeders who are health testing, are intimately familiar with their lines, take responsibility for what they've bred and have their dogs evaluated for quality by an impartial third party.

It's fine to not care for the aesthetic, temperament, whatever, that show dogs are being bred for these days. It's silly to cease holding a breeder up to any sort of standard in an attempt to avoid perceived issues with the show ring. For instance, I know of several flyball-bred Chihuhuas [they look a lot like Mega who was a pet store puppy/rescue] and a Boston or two. I'm sure there's loads more if you know where to look.

 

[eddieq]

Take the pissing war to private messages or simply off the forum. That's directed at BOTH of you. Use the ignore feature or simply practice ignoring someone.

 

[OwnedByBCs]

rescue is an option, certainly, but with health and temperament being high priority to me as well, ideally id like to buy from a breeder with known history. i never said i was going to buy from a byb, god forbid, im simply hoping to find a less extreme *style* bred by someone who is a good breeder, just not a *show* breeder. its out there in other breeds-- why not this one? *shrug*

My concern would be that since Frenchies do not have a "job" persay, there won't be "working" breeders. I honestly would be surprised if there were Frenchie breeders out there who had structurally sound dogs with good temperaments who were health tested and not shown. However, my guess is that there are some people who breed for slightly less extreme features- but finding one with a tail? That is where I go... "what?"