OMFG Stud request... look at this inbred pedigree

I agree too that they should do something, but you have to keep in mind how huge this country is. If the AKC were to put into place some sort of inspection routine, the only people who could afford to register pups would be the largest, most influential legit breeders and the puppy mills.

Ok then the AKC should not enable people, putting their stamp of registration on it is tacitly the same as giving their approval. IMO it is disgraceful.

A little line breeding can be a good thing. This is not a little line breeding. Genetically this pedigree is a recipe for disaster!

There doesn't even need to be an inspection process. A simple file in Excel could throw out inbreeding coefficients. Anything with higher than 'x' coefficient is not registrable-problem solved.

All the AKC is saying with their "stamp" is that the dog in question is <insert breed> and so were their parents, grandparents, etc.

It's a FAMILY TREE and/or list of achievements. Crappy breeders can register with the CKC, AKC, or any other type service. People really need to be better informed though, because the average "joe" thinks that by having "papers" it means the dog is show material, of good quality or background, and therefore comes from a good breeder

Totally agreed - some people even think that having a dog with papers is BAD because "oh, well, I just want a pet." Okay - and that pet dog can't be AKC registered because... why...?


But I think the AKC DOES have the potential to put a stop to this sort of thing. After all, if you have a dog who was sold and registered on a limited registration, and you decided to go ahead and breed that dog anyway, the AKC will not register that litter.
So they could, in theory, deny registration to an inbred litter.
BUT... that sort of thing opens up all kinds of a can of worms, IMO.

The words "reputable" and "registry" will never go together.

I know that about 20 years ago they were going to be more watchful .... guess the almighty $$$ meant more to them . Shame on them !!! They must make tons off of puppy mills ! Aren't all Petstore $500 to $1000 pups " papered " ?

Not all pet shops sell "papered" pups...........but I would say for the most part, yes they are. Not only AKC though grammy, I have seen pet shops selling CKC pups too.

I prefer the UKC above all others, they seem at least a LITTLE more legit than CKC and AKC...

Agree ! But we know most of those papers are either false or inbreds .

Well said, Redyre.

Some of you folks would have to pick your jaws off the ground after you viewed the pedigrees of my dogs. I have some very high inbreeding coefficients, about the same as or higher still than the GSD pedigree posted. :yikes: But, the breedings I chose to do were carefully considered and deeply researched (I have information on the majority of dogs behind mine over the past 40 years and no I am not kidding about that) and as such, I have successfully eliminated numerous health issues from my line and I did so without sacrificing temperament or conformation.

I have to agree with Redyre and Yodel.

LIzzie is the result of a aunt-nephew breeding. The German Spitz outside of Germany (and within Germany, although to a lesser degree that's disguised because people do not seem to be as open with their pedigrees) has a TINY gene pool.

It's also an EXCEPTIONALLY healthy breed. Retinal dysplasia and that's pretty much it as far as documentable health problems. There are individual instances of a few other things (an elderly dog with CHF, two epileptic dogs, a few individuals scattered throughout the world with LP) but nothing like the genetic problems you see in some breeds.

It's not JUST gene pool size. Some of it is luck as far as what went into that gene pool in the first place prior to anyon ebeing ABLE to test.

I like to think the Schaeferhund Verein is extremely legit.

That's not one I will ever deal with. And I know nothing about them.

But for the most part, today's registries are more about the almighty $$$ than the quality of the dogs being registered.

It is DIFFERENT in Europe, esp. Germany.

The SV and the ADRK have strict breeding requirements involving disclosed health testing and working ability.

However, you also must understand that they have nothing like a registration body such as AKC that registers all breeds.

The SV is for GSDs, the ADRK is for Rottweilers only. THIS is why they can do what they do, plus the SMALL size of the country.

If there was a top-notch breeder offering two litters -- one inbred and the other scatterbred -- I'd take a puppy off the inbred litter? Why? Because I'd know what I was getting. I don't see anything wrong with inbreeding, when done sensibly. I'd be more curious to know why they did all that inbreeding and then sought out a stud who is (I'm guessing?) an outcross. You'd think they'd want to find something bred similar?

Hmm a nephew aunt cross is fine (if done in moderation) but did you see the sheer number of dogs repeated. We are not talking a line breeding or two!

And you can't say what intense line breeding will do to your dogs for at least 10-15 generations. Any mutations will thrive and recessive polygenetic traits will be more likely to show up.

You can only inbreed so much, or you end up with cheetahs (a species where the gene pool is so small that two 'unrelated' cheetahs can always be organ donors with no chance of rejection)

I don't believe that with any breed of dog you could get this sort of genetic bottleneck.

That article is shocking, I had no idea they were all that closely related. That is strange!

I guess I just don't consider that pedigree all that bad. There's a very nice APBT that I can think of off the top of my head. Recently made GRCH in the ADBA show ring, which isn't the easiest thing to do. GRCH Caldwell's Boogieman shows up 5 times in his 4-gen pedigree, and according to the peds online site, accounts for 56.25% of his genetic makeup. And that's not even close to the tightest I've ever seen.

Y ep.